Engine Suggestions for Indie. (Or why UDK and Unity Failed)

NoNameJoe

Was asked to post anonymously. And for any who can guess who this might be. Please keep to self (or ask them if it is privately versus publically).

Unity: We couldn't get the master server to work. Wasn't much information available on it (Master).

Torque: Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt. Not going back.

UDK: Been an uphill battle. Documentation maybe present, but it is limited to what is common. Not only this, but over use of video documentation. Have to sit through some persons presentation to find the one bit you were looking for. The scriptors come across somewhat like if you don't know it, you should. On other hand, asking something very complicated gets no response or simple ones. Sorta like a "in" club. While it having no actual programming tying programmers hands behind back.

Or in short the "unextractable data in unsearchable archive files and maps". Or another quote "it remains an inflexible implementation done for one and only one game that was supposed to speed up our timeframe by having most of it done for us, then we move on".

The long short. I know this is going to ruffle some of the UDK people out there, but its not an engine setup for programmers. Its setup for scripters who know what the engine needs already and can work with the limitation versus a programmer who would make new sections.

Uniengine: Tempting. Moreover see if possible we can hook up a deal like Lukewarm did for Primal Carnage. Basically because we get source which programmer all about source. Scripting is not programming.

Crytek: Unknown at this time what if anything the supposed indie version will allow. Probably limited to scripting like Unity and UDK.

So needs: Programming Language. NOT scripting. Good documentation or at least a community that is responsive to questions both simple and complex. Not over $1000 initial license per seat. Better if one charge, no charge, or charged after release. Master Server code implemented.

Suggestions?


Thanks.
NO NAME JOE
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CrazyButcher

I go for Trollstoi

MoP

The writing style makes me think oXYnary for some reason!

cryrid

Perhaps look into C4, though I have no idea what it is like on the programming side

Justin Meisse

I dunno, what about Ogre3D, it's "just" a rendering engine but I always assumed the rendering side of things was the difficult part.

tanka

While UDK obviously isn't working out for you, It seems like Unity has barely any problems in comparison. If the only problem with Unity is the lack of documentation, why don't you email support and ask them about it. Especially if you've forked out 1.5k on a pro license (which it doesn't seem like you have, it might be worth a shot anyway) they will most probably help you out.

NoNameJoe

Thank you for the suggestions.

C4 was tried in the past. I forget the reason it was rejected. Believe at the time it was the master. Unsure.

Orge 3d your correct is just a rendering engine. One would still have to build the entire game structure from scratch. We have planned to go this way eventually. The engine though is years too early for projects and we need something to use in meantime. Hence a engine we could knock a 3d game out with out too much hassle.

Anything else? What about that main competitor to unity? Shiva?

(Tanka will pass suggestion on, from what was told, the master simply wasnt complete yet. Even on their site forums there was a discussion was pointed to discussing same thing).

commander_keen

Remember there is a very active irc channel for Unity where you can find tons of help. Im not really sure what you mean by "master server". If you mean some kind of server that gives a client info about other game servers then you would have to make that yourself. Or do you mean Asset Server?

Also dont limit your choice by what is "scripted" vs what what gives you full source code. What matters is how much access you get to the engine in the end. Unity is very open, theres very little I can think of that you couldnt do with it, and programming with it is far more painless than anything I have seen before. Other scripted engines give you very little access to modify the engine and how it works.

I say if your making your average FPS and have multiple programmers and time to waste, use UDK, otherwise use Unity.

SyncViewS

Hi, I can feel the pain and frustration. I think the scripting/programming thing is a little misleading. It's not always true scripting==bad and programming==good, as Keen said, it all depends on what the engine exposes through them.

Anyway, if you want the full power and customization at yuor fingertips, I'd say, based on many reviews, try Ogre3D, I guess your programmers would like the nice C++. It is said to be very mature, well written and documented, with a lively community. Just to mention, Torchlight is based on Ogre3D. But as it has been said Ogre3d is "just" a graphic engine, not a game engine, the gaming part, like AI, is up to you.

Maybe these broad engine list and rewiews can help you choosing what fits:
DevMaster's Game and Graphics Engines Database
Mod DB Game Engine list

bugo

Price wise might not match what you want,uses scripting but Infernal Engine? www.infernalengine.com.

Might be worth waiting for the next version of Unity...

eld

1. We have no idea what you want to achieve.

2. Write your own engine, slap ogre3d on top.

CrazyButcher

http://www.neoaxisgroup.com/ is a game engine + toolset that uses ogre3d

but threads like this one come and go, and everytime the same links and suggestions are made and the same arguments (scripting != programming bullshit) come up and the same advice is given.

There is no easy way, get more experience and learn to "bite" through some stuff. Especially with stuff as Unity, it's unlikely you find many other communities as big and alive elsewhere. Too much engine/software hopping is a sign of lack of endurance, you need an evaluation phase for sure, but there is no Eierlegendewollmilchsau.

luthreidrome

Have you tried Leadwerks? I think its more pointed towards the artist, but you might want to at least look at it. Though I wouldnt say its very solid.

TSM

Check out C4.

http://www.terathon.com/c4engine/features.php

Great community over there, and support is completely excellent.