TF2 - Polypack - Anti-Snip-R-2000

1
Hello everyone,

this idea wasn't realized on www.TF2CI.com before, so I wanne give it a try and realize it now. I hope you guys don't mind this time ^^'.

The basic idea for the "Anti-Snip-R-2000" was to create a long ranged version of the Sentry. While the sentry takes care of enemies on close range, the "Anti-Snip-R-2000" (ASR2) is focused on long ranged targets. This means that the ASR2 has to reduce his radius and his short ranged targeting, which makes it very vulnerable for closed ranged enemies. This Sentry also does not react on targets which are coming from the side or from behind. The best way to use this sentry is to place it in a distant corner with a direct view on the battlefield. It's also useful in a long corridor or focusing on a specific point like a passage enemies often use. Placing a normal sentry close to the "ASR2" would be a good protection for it. While the "ASR2" is focused on long and mid-ranged enemies at the front, the normal sentry takes care of mid and short ranged enemies around it. But the "ASR2" replaces the slot for the sentry, which means, that such a combination works with another Engineer as a team-mate.

The concept about the "ASR2" Level is simple, but a little bit different from other buildings. First off, this building uses 2 Blue-print Blocks instead of one, which makes it more difficult to build it in smaller places. The second thing is, that you can see up to three different ranges while you're holding the blueprint of the "ASR2". The reason for it is very simple: This Sentry does change his focus while it's upgrading, which means that the "ASR2" is losing his radius to increase his range. A Level 1 "ASR2" for e.g. has the same radius as a typical sentry. A Level 2 "ASR2" starts to focus more to his front, but it just has a radius of 120°. And a Level 3 Version get's the maximum range and a laser sight, but only with a 90° radius. The "Height" Range starts to change over the levels as well. A Level 2 and Level 3 Version of it can't shot down from high places or shot up from low places. It can aim up and down, but just for distant targets. The firing speed also downgrades while the sentry starts to upgrade but the damage will increase. A Lvl.1 Version fires a bit slower than a Lvl.1 Sentry Gun, but the bullets are a bit stronger (comparing them would show the result they do the same damage over time). A Lvl.2 Version has the speed of a sniper gun from the sniper, when he presses fire all the time. A Lvl 3. Version takes time and needs a cooldown after every shot, but when it shoots it booms very loudly and does a huge damage on a single person. This sentry will aim for the body, not for the head. One shot of a Lvl 3 Sentry can't kill a full healthy scout, but a second shot would be deadly for sure then. If the "Anti-Snipe-R-2000" accidently hits a head, it causes critical damage, but that just would be the case someone is walking right in front of the laser or when someone falls down while the "ASR2" aims for him. This Sentry isn't useful to block enemies in the air either because of its low firing speed. The "ASR2" does also use the same amount of metals like every building does for an upgrade: 200 metals for upgrading to Lvl.2 and another 200 to Lvl.3 . It also has the same Building/Sapping Time as well.

The basic design for the "ASR2" was to create a similar version of the sentry we already know from Team Fortress 2. But instead of turning into a Level 2 Sentry, the "ASR2" does a different transformation into a more longer weapon. The normal Sentry design starts to get more and more showy with every new level. The Anti-Snipe-R-2000 becomes more and more dynamic and more high-tech-like with every upgrade without losing the TF2 Style. I want to create a more curvy like sentry which is zooming his main-body like a telescope. The idea of spreading shells of the main body for this weapon is also in mind. You can think of the "ASR2" like a toy that the engineer wished for over more than 3 Christmas years. It should look like a weapon, that you don't want to have on the enemy side.

This Sentry can cause problems for snipers if they want to try sniping in the range of the "ASR2", but Snipers have the ability to change their sniping positions very quickly to snipe from a different location. A flanking Pyro or a (unübered) Heavy from the front are also very troublesome. And there's no doubt that a Demoman can take care about that building as well. The "ASR2" takes more care about characters, which get's very quickly distracted at the front. For e.g. a Spy who covered up accidently, jumping fast scouts and snipers are perfect targets for it.

I hope you like the basic idea. Have Fun!

Ryu Ookami

Replies

  • Ryu Ookami
    Hello,

    here is a image how the Anti-Snip-R-2000 should upgrade:asr2.jpg
    The Red Area under the sentrys is the size of one Blue-Print when you place a building. And as you can clearly see, this sentry uses 2 Blue-Prints, which makes it more difficult to place this sentry on small places or in a corner.

    Have Fun!

    Ryu Ookami
  • Clusternate
    Quiet nice idea.

    But as lazy i am (and probably many other) ur first post i waayy to much text, that i wanna read it.^^

    With this Picture on the other hand its really sounds like a good idea.

    Do u plan du let it look like the original sentry?
  • Baby Stomper
    A lot of people probably skipped over your post at first because it was just text originally, but that picture helps attract a lot more attention and it explains the sentry well.

    I had an idea really similar to this a while back, but I can tell you put way more thought into it than I did.

    I like the idea a lot, and like I said, you have obviously put a ton of thought into it, however, I can't see this being used in game very often because of how limited it is. The Engineer will have to turtle way in the back of the fight and just in the few places where it would be useful. You would hardly be supporting your team like you would be with a front-lines sentry nest, and you might as well play sniper. And your team isn't going to rally around an engineer who is so far in the back.

    Perhaps if you could specify which level you want it to upgrade to and just toss it down to let it do its own thing and you can't repair it or something. That way you would have the automated sniper cover you want, and still be able to support the front lines and help out with teleporters and dispensers, rather than being stuck in the back and easily taken out by anyone who manages to get around the gun's fire. I think if you adjust it somehow to make the Engineer not need to babysit, it will add a lot more people using it.

    As it is, however. I can see it getting a ton of use on a couple of the Dustbowl points.

    Keep up the good work.
  • Ryu Ookami
    Quiet nice idea.

    But as lazy i am (and probably many other) ur first post i waayy to much text, that i wanna read it.^^

    With this Picture on the other hand its really sounds like a good idea.

    Do u plan du let it look like the original sentry?

    Yes and No. It starts with a similiar design at the beginning. The head would be the same, but the legs will look different. When it shoots it should also sound a bit different than a normal sentry. But then with every level this sentry is going to upgrade in a different way than the normal one does.
  • ScudzAlmighty
    I really like design you've got, but I can't think of any maps where it wouldn't be either totally OP or totally UP. what's the firing time between shots?
  • Ryu Ookami
    I really like design you've got, but I can't think of any maps where it wouldn't be either totally OP or totally UP. what's the firing time between shots?

    I am not really sure about it and I think it need a lot of tweaks and tests before I can give you a good timing for such a weapon. Fact is, that this sentry can't kill so many players in the same a time a normals sentry could do. It supports more than it does do killing streaks.

    The Level 1 Sentry Version has a slower firing speed, but is a bit stronger. (Comparing them would show a result that they do the same damage over time)

    The Level 2 Sentry Version has the firing speed of a sniper gun, when it's used all the time. It has the same effect like doing body shots with an unloaded sniper gun.

    The Level 3 Version is more actually a railgun-like sentry than using using bullets. It makes a really uncharging sound when it fires and it need to cooldown even longer than a Level 2 Version does. I think maybe 3 seconds between the shots would be a nice cooldown time. A healty scout would survive one shot, a hurted one may not.

    You see, this sentry may increase range and damage while upgrading, but it also downgrades his radius and his firing speed. Sometimes it would be wiser to just let this sentry on Lvl 2 instead of upgrading it to Lvl 3, but that just depence on the personal desire and the situation.
  • Buck
    Scudz, When i think about it more or less every map except for ctf maps has another way to get to any perfect sentry position for this baby, but placing it on like 2 fort battlements or somewhere in middle room in turbine does sound difficult to counter. Anyway i love the idea of this bad boy so far. Cant wait to see where it goes.
  • Ryu Ookami
    asr23d.jpg
    I started to make a basic 3D Model for it. I started with simple primitiv objects and shapes. I also look where the parts are comming from and how exactly it starts to upgrade. I tested some elements like some extra foots at the front of the third sentry level, but I canceled this idea right after I saw the result.

    The more detailed version shows a bit more the way I wanne try to go with this sentry. I didn't want a sentry that upgrades in a cartoony way like the original does. This once should try to upgrade by using smaller parts from the inside. The Original Sentry comes up with parts which are becomming even bigger then the part where they're comming from.

    As you can see, this sentry gets more and more filigree with every update, by zooming out the head part like a lens of a camera or by spreading shell part out of it. And with every upgrade is starts to look more and more dynamic and high-tech-like.
  • Mico27
    I must admit: I Loooooove this!
    that will teach those pesky sniper for always trying to snipe my sentry (or manage to headshot me while I tank my sentry). If when it upgrades the range goes up but the fire rate stay the same as a lvl 1 sentry that would be cool!
  • youngoli
    I like it, but I think you can afford to lose that C-shaped holder after the head claps down. There's already enough bits of hanging metal in the design that it looks a bit silly with that also left there.

    Still, the style and idea of it are awesome. It definitely seems like something usable and interesting.
  • Enderstaley
    This is a pretty cool idea, though I get the feeling it would toss gameplay outta wack a little
  • Ryu Ookami
    I must admit: I Loooooove this!
    that will teach those pesky sniper for always trying to snipe my sentry (or manage to headshot me while I tank my sentry). If when it upgrades the range goes up but the fire rate stay the same as a lvl 1 sentry that would be cool!
    It was pretty obvious at the beginning, that this sentry should be more a sniper turret than a maschine-gun turret. Even when the fire Rate and the damage would be the same, people would not like it. It would be like you've got killed by the Sniper SMG over a long-distance.
    I like it, but I think you can afford to lose that C-shaped holder after the head claps down. There's already enough bits of hanging metal in the design that it looks a bit silly with that also left there.
    This C-Shape isn't really just for decoration or design in the first place. Because of the sentry length, it needs a second fix point, otherwise it would look very unbalance or unrealistic. And the Sentry couldn't aim anymore if I would remove this shape and fix it otherwise. I would be impossible to move the back without having somekind of rail there.
  • Buck
    *jizz* its great man.
  • EVIL
    I can't help to have the feeling that whenever I exit my base at 2 fort I will be heatshotted by this thing on sight from across the map. TF2 is all about close 1vs1 combat, this is the most fun, thats why they gave the sniper a bow and arrow, to make them more involved with their opponent. One of the primary TF2 rules is that it has to be fun for everybody, and getting shot by this long range sentry doesn't seem fun to me.
  • re.wind
    I like the concept, but as others have said: Balance? Looks good though.
  • nex
    hi all...i just registered to say this


    i can already see engie behind 3rd lvl sentry you made...it could have 2 mods...automatic (like default sentries) and manual,where engi uses sentry like stationary gun...

    sometin' like this

    68205984_5e3e9975c4.jpg

    anyway, keep up the good work :D
  • Ryu Ookami
    As I already said, this weapon needs tests and tweaks. This weapon can sure be very overpowered just if you change the attributes a bit. Team Fortress 2 Maps are always designed with different ways and tracks, which means that this sentry can just take care just one path, but not as good as a normal sentry could do. A normal sentry can take out a whole bunch of people if they run unprepared into the sentry rage. The "Anti-Snip-R-2000" can't take of them all. I dunno, when 10 Scouts are running to this Sentry from far away, only 3 or 4 scout would die and all the others are allrady close enough and out of range to take down the sentry with a melee weapon. Trying this with a normal sentry would end in a bloodbath.
    I can't help to have the feeling that whenever I exit my base at 2 fort I will be heatshotted by this thing on sight from across the map.
    This Sentry aims for the body not for the head. It makes bodyshots, not headshots. If you get headshotted by it, it's just because your falling down from somewhere and the bullets needs time to fly or you're just standing in the way from a bodyshot.

    modelsheetlvl1.jpg
  • re.wind
    looking good, but you might want to move those read legs a bit more to the side to give it a greater sideways stability.
  • Fragus
    On the level 3, put something on the end of the barrel
    Li3US.gif
  • Simski
    I'm loving this, seems like a great way to make sure the enemy team don't use Sniper too excessively.

    Man... I can see it in my head already.

    Suddenly, angry 2fort players!
    Thousands of them!
  • fastturtle
    I have to agree with Fragus - the barrel of the gun just ending looks a little awkward even with the laser sight, and putting that one the end would look really nice.
  • Ryu Ookami
    [ame]

    This is just a small animation to test, how this sentry starts to build itself in 10 Seconds. There are no gaps or breaks within the timing, and everything seems to be a bit slow as well, but I'm working on it. I also have to find a way how it pops out of the Engineer's Box. I had to change the rig several times to find a good way to animate this sentry and I think there will be a different rig setup when it upgrades every time, too.

    Maybe I'll just upload the sentry design without the animation on TF2 Contribute, but I wanne do the animation for this progress thread so that everyone can see how this sentry should animate when it's in the game.
  • Rhinokey
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    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 11
    one thing i hat to think out when i started the goop gun replacement is foot print, the large teh object will limit places you can put it, that will most likely be based on the largest piece of the set, so your gun would need a LOT of room


    looks great tho,, wish i could continue on mine :( but my computer desk is already packed
  • Xeramon
    I love that Sentry :D Awesome!
  • Artexe
  • Ryu Ookami
    nex wrote: »
    hi all...i just registered to say this


    i can already see engie behind 3rd lvl sentry you made...it could have 2 mods...automatic (like default sentries) and manual,where engi uses sentry like stationary gun...

    sometin' like this

    68205984_5e3e9975c4.jpg

    anyway, keep up the good work :D

    I had this thought as well, but then I canceled it, because it's the job for an engi to support his team in the first place with his buildings and to watch over it. Aiming Manual means he has to be the sniper then instead of the Engi. And it also means that ha can't take the time to do something else, for e.g. watching spies from behind.

    This Sentry shouldn't change the duties of an engineer. It just gives him a different task by supporting the battlefield instead of making a solid defence. He has to repair his stuff, has to watch out for spies, has to collect metals for building/repairing/upgrading and he has to upgrade his stuff if nessesary.
  • Ryu Ookami
    There will be a new animation-clip for you guys soon, but I wanne tell you as well that I'm going to try make a "hat" (well it's actually more a beard) for the Engineer. I want to give him a Crazy Robinson Crusoe or Gold Digger beard. It's a would be a Full beard like we know from old crazy man or dwarfs and I think it would fit for this crazy dude of Engineer. I'm not sure when I'm going to work on it, but I wanne try it soon.

    114886_vollbart_big.jpg

    Here's also a sketch of mine:
    tf2haircut.jpg

    Have Fun !

    Ryu Ookami
  • Ryu Ookami
    Yay, I loove posting with myself : P

    I'm sorry to push all the time ^^' but I have something new for you guys to look at.

    [ame]

    It's not the final Version of the Lvl 2 Sentry Animation but the Lvl 1 Transformation is close to the way I want to have it now.

    To make such a double transformation I needed two Sentrys(Sentries) with two completly different Rigs. When the second transformation starts I'm switching out those Turrets in just one Frame. In the end it looks like it was the same sentry all the time.
  • Fragus
    great animations, but work on the model a little bit more! the barrel needs something at the end
  • Ryu Ookami
    Fragus wrote: »
    great animations, but work on the model a little bit more! the barrel needs something at the end
    I planned it on Lvl3, just as you said some posts earlier :3
  • jnumber9
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    jnumber9 triangle
    wow! Im really impressed. the animations youve uploaded are great!:thumbup:
  • Armanky
    That beard concept is fantastic.
  • Naso
    I think if you are going to keep that level 3 sentry, you should change it to look a little more "upgraded" from level 2, they are very similar.
  • Xeramon
    I dont like the animation but i love that model :) I hope u will made a better (animation) one!
  • Ryu Ookami
    I think if you are going to keep that level 3 sentry, you should change it to look a little more "upgraded" from level 2, they are very similar.

    Well my goal is to make this gun more high-tech like with every upgrade. I don't wanne pimp it up the way the normal sentry does by giving it a bigger gun. This model you saw wasn't the final version, but a close view to the way I wanne design it. What I'll do is that I'll give this gun more and more details, so that it will look more filigree and valueable. As I said, this gun is something like a Christmas Gift just for the Engineer.
    I dont like the animation but i love that model :) I hope u will made a better (animation) one!

    I didn't expected that kind of answer XD. Usually my models have much space for critism and not my animation. It would really help me a lot what you don't like within my animation or what I can do better. Can you do that ? :3
  • Khthon
    Beautiful animations. How does the beard (which I love btw) fit in with the Anti-Snipe-R theme-wise?
  • Ryu Ookami
    Erm.... good question XD.... maybe the Engineer works so long and so hard for it that he forgot to shave himself : 3. But I guess your right. Maybe I have to do a special Theme for it. Anyway, I'll focus on this when I finished my Sentry gun : P
  • SixTwoSixFour
    The animations are very nice, and the models look great. I know you said you're planning to have a thing on the end in the level 3 version, but the level 2 one really needs something- that long pipe-like barrel could use a little decoration.

    Could I suggest, maybe, a small muzzle brake on the end for level two, which becomes significantly bigger in level 3?
  • Simski
    I liked most of the animation, the only part I didn't like was that it was sometimes too smooth.
    Like when it spinned and adjusted it's legs at the same time, and when it pulled out the black part from the red thing while adjusting it's legs.

    I wish it just looked a bit more mechanic :O

    Oh and... remember that the Sentry is usually build from the tool box.
    As in... Engy places the toolbox, and the toolbox then turns into the sentry.
    Perhaps you already know that though, and I'm just terribly confused.
  • Ryu Ookami
    Thx everyone:

    @ Simski

    I know the fact that the engi is using his toolbox to create the sentry/building out of it, that's why I tried to make it as small as possible at the start. Otherwise I had to pop it out through the toolbox ground if it doesn't fit, but it didn't like that alternative.

    The Situation with the mechanic-like animation is a bit ... how can I say this... complex. I know that the animation should more look less organic and more like a maschine, but I have a major problem within such animation:

    Every Sentry (mine and the original) upgrades with a few seconds (about 2 seconds). This means that every part has to start immediantly and at the same time. And this means a lot of motion so that you never can focus the whole animation just by looking at it onces. There is a major direction where whole animation goes. (Most likley on my sentry the major animation lies in the head and the front-footholders, I hope : P) But there also animation-layers that work oppesed into the other direction, (like the muzzle or the gun holder). In the end, I have hundreds of single animation-layers for every part of this sentry that I have to sort out what looks less smooth and what can be more liniar based animation.

    By changing every animation-curve into a linear curve won't solve the problem. It comes to the opposite way: The Sentry starts to look more unrealistic and inept. Things like gravity and compilance for e.g. are things that can't be liniar animated for sure. Filtering and tweaking this animation is needed, but that needs some time first : P. Major focus was to make a basic animation so that I can take a look how this sentry could upgrade. After that I can take a look at the textures of it, which will also be a huge work because I actually have three Sentries to texture.

    Okay now something for everyone again :
    muzzlereference.jpg

    I know you guys loove voting for items : P. I'm currently thinking about a new design for a muzzle for the Level 2 and the Level 3 Version. I'm not sure if I change the muzzle within Level 2 to Level 3 like SixTwoSixFour said, but I will definitly will use one for Level 2 and Level 3. Choose a letter and a small reason why this one. I want to use a muzzle in the end, which isn't more complex than the rest of the model (N for example) and I prefer a round one instead of a cubic one. But let me hear your voices first ^^.
  • SixTwoSixFour
    I like F. It's traditional, it's simple, and it just looks good.
  • chickenman
    A suggestion for your animation:

    For the morph from box to Lvl 1, see what a 360 degree turn of the top part would look like, as opposed to the 180 degree one you have now (maybe even try a 540). Watch the original TF2 sentry animation for what I mean.

    For Lvl 1 -> Lvl 2, Make things snap in place more, instead of being a nice fluid animation. Also there is a floating metal piece during this transition in the middle.
  • Some Jerk
    I like letter O, even though this thing is a sniping sentry, not a turret one. Just like the way it looks for some reason.
  • Khthon
    I like J, you could really push and exaggerate the shape to be large and TF2-ish.
  • Betty Hime
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    Betty Hime polycounter lvl 9
  • vcool
  • Rogue Trooper
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi interpolator
  • Ryu Ookami
    [ame]

    My third Upgrade Animation. I know the muzzle should come on Lvl 2 now instead of Lvl 3 and I also know that the level 3 Version looks a bit too simliar two with the level 2 Sentry, but I want to work that out later. But for now I want to concentrate on the Texture-Layers for this Sentry. And for that I'll take a look at the original TF2 Textures of their sentry. I'm also going to model some different stuff as well for some details for the sentry. For e.g. I think I'm going to make a transforming Muzzle from the J to F Version. I'm sorry for those guy who wanted the twisted N design. Maybe it looks cool but I don't think it would fit into the sentry style.
  • raptor
    Thats.....awsome. i have some ideas for you:(sry for my bad english)

    --should add another weapon to the sentry or utility at lvl 3, as the normal sentry gets rockets yours could do smth too:
    --in opinion it needs more survavility than the normal sentry so lvl 3 sentry could add some type of fan, or tubes which airblast near xplosives and can xtinguish fire from you.
    --another survavility option could be a small gun over the sentry which shoots all flying objects coming towards the sentry.(stikies,rockets,flares ,ipeboms,arrows,scout ball, and even enemies trying to jump over it)

    anyway the model looks good, so good luck and keep the hard work!
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