Workshop #04 - kyle.rau

polycounter lvl 8
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kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
really like the rifle so i wanted to give this ago. haven't done enough hard surface modeling accept cars, so this should be fun.

first session WIPs

1Back.jpg?w=d2acbf73

1Front.jpg?w=4ed0c242

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  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Apparently my images weren't showing up... sorry....

    fix:

    1Back.jpg


    1Front.jpg
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    wipshot2.jpg
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Some more wips. The rear stock padding was a pain, I learned a lot doing it though!


    wipshot4.jpg


    wipshot3.jpg
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    kyle.rau wrote: »
    The rear stock padding was a pain, I learned a lot doing it though!

    You did it! How did you go about getting it to look right?

    It's coming along real good, man. A few edges around the grip need to be softer, but besides that, its looking real clean :)
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for the crits man :) I'll look into those edges.

    Oh yes, that rear padding is a pain. I still need to tweak it a lot. I basically blocked out the shape on a plane, some extruding, and then used 3 total bend deformers. I can send you the mesh if you want to look at it, let me know.
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    got around to working on it some more, finished the rear butt padding and countersunk all the screws/bolts. I have a couple questions though, anyone know how to get rid of the little artifact type thing on the end of the sphere? I guess I can make a new sphere that will smooth properly and replace it...has anyone else ever got this?


    wipshot5nipple.jpg

    I'm getting some funky lighting issues....it seems that my rear rim light is shining through my geometry and hitting edges that I shouldn't be able to but there should be a fix somewhere.


    wipshot5.jpg


    wipshot5rear.jpg

    crits are welcome, thanks!
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    It's looking real good, mate! Coming along nicely.
    kyle.rau wrote: »
    ...anyone know how to get rid of the little artifact type thing on the end of the sphere? I guess I can make a new sphere that will smooth properly and replace it...has anyone else ever got this?

    I got the same thing. I came up with a workaround by just giving the initial sphere lots of divisions (I think I did 30x30). Then, I lined the axis up with the connecting lever and did a bit of extruding to form a realistic connection. The main idea is that I don't smooth the sphere, and the tris (at the axis) don't get distorted that way.

    Don't forget that the chassis (green part, in ref) is a two-piece shell that is held together by those screws. There should be a small separation directly around the center. I see a line inside the main grip part, but no where else. *Tip: don't bother making this separation until you are sure that you won't have to mirror geo again.
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Glad to you pointed that out. Will definitely add that seam soon. Unfortunately I've been done mirroring a while ago since the green stock isn't symmetrical. Probably should have broke it up into pieces so I could mirror it back and forth. Eh.

    So you just used a sphere and didn't smooth it? Was the sphere connected too the handle or no?

    Thanks for the input man
  • Quack!
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    Quack! polycounter lvl 13
    Those artifacts are the triangles that come with a standard sphere. I recommend subdividing a cube a couple times. Use the spherify modifier in max(or something similar in other packages). Then work from there. You will have a quad sphere that is the not noticeably different then a standard sphere and will subdivide nice.
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    I shall try that. I'm using maya mainly for this, but I will go into max to give this a stab. I literally just started learning max. Thanks! :)
  • Quack!
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    Quack! polycounter lvl 13
    Well since max is new to you, here ya go.

    http://www.screencast.com/t/MmY0Y2Vk
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    chaosquack wrote: »
    I recommend subdividing a cube a couple times... ...You will have a quad sphere that is the not noticeably different then a standard sphere and will subdivide nice.

    That works MUCH better! Thanks for the tip, Quack :)

    The lever isn't attached, Kyle. It's just "screwed-in". Still easy to do with Quack's method too.
    temp-1.jpg

    Can I ask where you got reference for this area? I can't find squat!
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    I couldn't find the exact site, it was some sniper forum but I loaded some good refs (including that part) I found in a zip! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7427381/AI%20AW%20Refs.zip

    :D
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    You are the man! Thanks. Alot of those shots were angles I had trouble finding (especially since I decided to do a folding stock). Much appreciated :)
  • Andrew Mackie
    Hey man, this gun is looking like a great high poly model!
    You are using Maya to create this correct?
    Can I ask how you got such great renders out of Maya?
    [You may have already answered this, and if so, I am sorry. ]
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks man :)

    Yes I'm using maya. I used max for a certain part of the rear padding. But I wouldn't even count that. So yes. The renders are a simple 3 light setup. No special settings. I believe a couple of them I have shadows and raytracing but thats it. In Polygoblin's workshop thread (guy posting above you) he has a link that I thought I had bookmarked, or else I would hook you up with it and he has some good advice too for light setups. He used maya too
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Finishing up the hi-poly. I think I have a couple more bolts/screws to throw in, and maybe a few more things here and there to fix up/add. Glad to finally be working on this again. Had a small hiatus: Finals at school + moving to new appt. Great fun!

    Crits are welcome.

    I kind of combined 3 different scopes from the refs and another to get the one on there.

    I'm about to start on the bipod. Figuring out which one i want to do.

    Also, the grip patterns on the knobs and other parts of the scope: To model or not to model? When I do the low-poly, I could just do it in PS...probably look a lot better too....

    wipshot8.jpg


    wipshot9.jpg
  • Andrew Mackie
    Thanks for the help!
    The newest shots look really nice.
    I can't wait to see the texturing on this.
    What type of texturing are you going to go for, more realistic I am guessing?
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    No prob :)

    And thank you!

    I'm going for semi realistic...the gun itself is very plain being that it is made of that weird polymer plastic for the main body, which is just plain green. But I'm really not sure yet. Texturing isn't my strongest point, I'm hoping this will help me with my texturing as well as help me become for fond of texturing in general lol. What direction would you go?
  • Andrew Mackie
    Definitely realistic looking. It would compliment the modeling really well.
    I would even look at the way Valve does the textures for Team Fortress 2, just for the way they do the wear & tear of their textures. Obviously their texturing is more stylized but you can take the paint chips and metal wear away from looking at the way they do their textures.
    But, I would start by just laying down flat metal colors on the model and then build up grime, dust, scratches, oil, and all the other wear & tear that the gun would go through.
    Unless of course you want to make it more of a new gun and not have the scratches, but that is all up to you.
    :]
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    I believe I'm calling the highpoly done. Finished up the bipod, but I might toss for the lowpoly, we'll see. Starting on the lowpoly now

    What do you guys think of the renders? (I know this is off topic for this modeling workshop but I'm talking portfolio display..) I feel like the renders in my last post are better...but I don't know. The only way to render out my isolines (wireframe) in maya is a real pain, and I know max can do it really easily. I am currently learning max atm and I think I'm going to try and render in max eventually.

    2Final.jpg

    3Final.jpg

    4Final.jpg


    5Final.jpg
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    I'm digging these renders, man! Might want to make sure the 1st-person-view gets the same lighting attention, though. I like the older, darker renders but these lighter versions show off the details better, I think. Excellent work, my friend. Can't wait to see your low res :)
  • kris4an4o
    Nice look and lighting.:thumbup:
    I accidently noticed some jaggy normals on the loading handle.I dont know if it's going to work , but you can try applying spherify to a box.
    Great work though!
  • WCdesign
    kyle.rau wrote: »
    I believe I'm calling the highpoly done. Finished up the bipod, but I might toss for the lowpoly, we'll see. Starting on the lowpoly now

    What do you guys think of the renders? (I know this is off topic for this modeling workshop but I'm talking portfolio display..) I feel like the renders in my last post are better...but I don't know. The only way to render out my isolines (wireframe) in maya is a real pain, and I know max can do it really easily. I am currently learning max atm and I think I'm going to try and render in max eventually.

    Hi to do best renders in max use Vray if u currently working with it and u got some knowledge try to experiment with render output with AO in psd...Try also color balance in vray frame buffer in color curve correction u can get really good looking outputs

    here is link how to make perfect ao in vray
    http://www.cgadvertising.com/media/Tutorials/AO/Ambient_Occlusion.pdf
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for the tips man, but I'm using maya and mental ray. I just got max, and I'm super new to it. Pretty sure it doesn't ship with vray. I do multiple passes including AO for PS compositing if that's what you're talking about. Cheers for the link, I'm sure one day I'll get to vray :)
  • SunSetter
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    SunSetter polycounter lvl 9
    hey kyle, I've tried to send you a message but somehow i get the message that you cannot receive messages :|
  • WCdesign
    np mate, there is also Vray for Maya, to learn it`s super easy, i can give u short tutorial, how to setup some parameters...there also super cool tutorial about Vray from Vizmasters, If u will watch it u will know everything how to use best render plugin
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Small update, it has been a while. Was back home for a week or so and school is now started. Just found some time to work on it some more.

    Definitely having some normal map baking issues for the first time. The model contains a lot of long skinny triangles are that giving me pains. I originally made the low poly for an object space normal map, but I've been recently trying to go the tangent space way. This is the screen in maya with my normal map, but in marmoset/udk it looks awful. (maya viewport can display its own baked maps best you know :P )

    mayaScreen.JPG

    To get tanget space maps to bake properly, I'm having to add many polys that don't define the silhouette and it is really just a waste. I've been doing some research about object space. Cryengine uses it, and many others. I feel like hard surface weapons can benefit from them more, especially if you're not overlaying details in the normal map. Because I am hoping to eventually put this in CryEngine, I'm deciding to go the object space route instead. The bakes I am getting are cleaner, with less polys, which is really important.
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    So here is some comparisons of tangent vs. object

    Tangent:

    marmosetShotTangent.JPG


    Object:

    marmosetShot.JPG

    (Disregard the seams in the middle, I am just testing out one specific half of the body. And I am leaving out the bolts from the high poly in the bake.)

    The only way I have been able to get rid of those nasty burnt skinny triangle errors is by adding many "supporting edges" to ease the smoothing. Which jacks the polycount up.

    The best way to fix all if this (what I have done in the past) is split my uv's here:

    CutUVSHere.JPG

    and make those edges hard. Those would save polys and yield perfect bakes. Unfortunately this would give me a nice seam in texture painting and because this in a rounded single piece of plastic, that seam is going to look way out of place. If it was metal or something, that would be easy to cover up and would look realistic since metal pieces have seams when they meet.

    Hope this helps anyone having the same issues I was having
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    UPDATE!

    got the tangent bakes to work well actually, so i'm sticking with those.

    in marmo:


    tangentworking.jpg
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    finally got some time to work on this. almost done with bakes! working on ao....

    in marmo:


    WIP_MARMO2.jpg


    WIP_MARMO1.jpg
  • Andrew Mackie
    Looking good man.
    How do you like the Marmoset Engine?
    I've got a few things into it so far but nothing too grand.
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    The bake came out really well! Nice job.

    I'm loving Marmoset. Might have to buy a copy when my trial runs out.
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    thanks guys!! :) still got a couple tiny edits to do though.

    yeah you guys marmo rules. worth the 50 bucks hands down! the new features like the auto texture updating and the fact that it saves out a screenie with an alpha channel mask for PS....that alone is worth 50 bucks i think.
  • DMRadford
    Nice looking model, I can't wait to see it all textured. Any reason to choose marmo over udk?
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    I could do either, but marmo just looks better for portfolio shots in my opinion. With the new version, you can do a turn table easily and render out targa's with masks in the alpha channel for easy compositing for your portfolio flats. I might eventually do some UDK shots though...I miss that material editor! :P
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    I'm calling her done! Here are the final hipoly renders, and lowpoly shots, as well as texture flats

    I should really add a gloss map, the highlight on the body is way to sharp and shiny....when I turn it down in marmo it looks fine...but the metal parts look bad. Definitely think adding a gloss would help!


    final2.jpg

    final1.jpg


    riflenormal1.jpg


    riflenormal2.jpg


    rifleShot1.jpg

    didn't even notice the strange artifact in that image above....happened when I downsized it.....oh well

    rifleShot2.jpg


    Texture Maps can be viewed .HERE.
  • Polygoblin
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    Polygoblin interpolator
    It came out fantastic, bro! Great job :) Might want to throw together another shot with a few wireframes, but besides that, great presentation.

    Oh, and fix that weird glowing metal too ;)
  • kyle.rau
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    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks man! Agreed. I should throw some wires in there, now that marmo shows wires! :D
  • Av7xrocker97
    Very awesome! Definitely one of the best of the ones that were completed.
  • tannerellison
    hey rau! i was admiring your AW rifle (awesome job!) again while taking a break from building all my crazy stuff for the Interior Spaces final. I have an additional 2 guns ive modelled this term and had a few questions about your baking process. I saw that you dumped your stuff into marmoset, have you got any screens from UDK or unity? I had a similar problem with baking in maya when using source engine and UDK with my first gun bake.
  • Vinterdragen
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    Vinterdragen polycounter lvl 7
    Nice Work!

    It'd be nice if you write a tutorial or maybe a post sharing us your issues in the making of :D, I would like to know what you did to fix the Normal Map baking issue that you had

    Really nice model!
  • JohnnyCrespo
  • alvinfree2012
    Deep in spring,
    the rain's passed- West Lake is good.
    A hundred grasses vie in beauty,
    http://www.mmolive.com/
    Confusion of butterflies, clamour of bees,
    The clear day hurries the blossom to burst forth in the warmth.
    Oars in lilies, a painted barge moving without haste.
    I think I see a band of sprites
    Light reflected in the ripples,
    The high wind carries music over the broad water.
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