Cathedral

SaferDan

Hello ive just finshed my first year of university and now want to build a portfolio up for placements in the 3rd year

after playing Darksiders ive decided i really want to do a Cathedral. As well as improving my UDK skills i want to get to know Zbrush alot more too so i was thinking i could add some sculptures around the Cathedral.

But one thing i do not quite understand is how to model so everything is modular, i understand what it is but i have no idea how to decide which bits to make modular on a building.

I have grabbed a picture and marked out what i think would be modular but if im wrong could someone please tell me where i am going wrong



so there would be three sections to it and then all three bits as a whole would run the length of the Cathedral as a whole?and then for eachscetion there would be a section of vaulted roof?

any help is most appreciated

SaferDan

Thats epic thank you so much for paintover

SaferDan

well it looks right and its a million times better than what i came up with

PogoP

Im not an expert at this at all, but I would split it even further. I would split it as follows:

Pillars at the bottom.
Archway on the top of the pillars.
First window above the archway, duplicated again for the other window.
Same for the section above.

I'll do a PS paintover to show what I mean, that doesn't make much sense!

PogoP

SaferDan

Thats awesome thank you to the both of you ill block it oout and see what works best

SaferDan

hey!so ive started blocking everything out, its going to be quite epic i hope and i have 5 months to work on it before i go back to uni, so yeah i should have plenty of time! The aim of me doing this is to increase my knowledge of zbrush and UDK ready for my next year of uni!
ok so here are all the modular bits for the nave and some of the transcepts. You cant really see the recesses but yeah there will be like mini sculptures sitting inside there and the windows will be all pretty looking too!



Here is the overall layout, i am undecided as to where to put the big sculpture if i put it near the back then i can have a little altar thng slap bang in the middle but if i have the sculpture in the middle the back will be empty!



a shot down one of the transcepts



and a shot down the nave, i dont know if its as epic as id lke but im hoping that when i get more decorated stuff in it will look better



im off to a Cathedral tomorrow to get more reference and then ill finsh the block out

SaferDan

so ive finshed the block out. Ive added two small extra rooms just to make the place a bit bigger but i dont actally know if i will have time to make them but we will see!



overall layout



here are all my main modular pieces for the building



ive started makking things and i started with one of the less important coloumns just as a test really



but ive decided i dont like it i knid of want a more stylized feel to it so im going to try and and see what i get!

roosterMAP

nice work on the rock. but i can still see the height segments on the capital. you may want to reassign smoothing groups.

SaferDan

Thanks Rooster

yeah it was more a test, i think i went too far with the damage etc so ill redo and def look at the smoothing groups!

SHEPEIRO

wheres your reference for this sort of pillar? i would suggest getting the forms right and using ref for sculpting too befor you dissmiss it and go for a more stylised look...

also pic a better shape, its just not that interesting when alot of gothic pillar bases have nice forms that would translate better to 3d

SaferDan

i went to the Cathedral in my town and this was the sort of thing on the bottom



maybe we have a boring Cathedral or something i don't know but i didnt really like the base so i deviated! Admittely without reference! I will have another poke around for more interesting Columns!

also this is one of the side columns and wont be as prominent in the cathedral, the main columns in the middle will look alot better!

FreshDumbledore

looking really great! but the arcs for the roof are way to low, make them higher.

SaferDan

good spot! Thank you! Ill make sure they are higher!

SaferDan

i have resculpted the column and i prefer this result its not as realistic so now ill carry on making the rest of my peices!




Also Sheperio i have another scout about the internet and as far as I can tell anyway, the bottoms tend to be a plain, its the tops that are full of detail?

feel free to prove me wrong though

Will Faucher

You seem to have those weird lines like you had a lower poly cylinder. Shouldn't that be smooth and not angular?

SHEPEIRO

erm i think you proved my point with your image above

simply copying the side profile and lathing that would give you a better more interesting form

SaferDan

SHEPEIRO wrote: »

erm i think you proved my point with your image above

simply copying the side profile and lathing that would give you a better more interesting form

without sounding like a fool what do you mean by lathing?

hmmm i dont know though! I actually really like it! I quite like the form i have!

Shogun3d

Lathe is a modifier in 3ds Max that allows you to spin a shape and wrap it around with control. Useful for creating cylindrical shapes from line tool, etc.

SaferDan

ahhhh i see! I use Maya where there is no such button! Well there is obviously its just named somethng else! Ok ill give it a go! I still like my old one better!

Shogun3d

There is such a tool in Maya, it's "Revolve".

Sorry didn't realize your screenshots were Maya shots. Just noticed.

SaferDan

yeah ive used it before ill give it a go! I am beginning to see what maybe wrong with mine the more i look at other columns!

seth.

when you are dividing the geo in Zbrush do you have the smt button checked Dex? The low poly lines look like a trait of not smoothing when dividing.

SaferDan

no i turn it off on purpose because bends the edges of the mesh but ive realised i can fix that with the lowpoly! I'm a benny!

Shogun3d

You can use iterations of the SMT, just subdivide once with it on, and then rest with it off.

SaferDan

ok so i have a *hopefully* better base with which to work with!

let me know what you think!

seth.

ooohh cylindrical If you build your mesh ready for sub-D in maya then it will retain shape after smoothing in Zbrush Dex, and give you extra geo on the edges where it looks like you are doing the majority of the detailing

lols.........Dex said benny

SaferDan

lol yes i said benny! even though i hate the damn word!

anyway ive spend most of the day on the base, i need to speed up! Although i did have a zbrush crash and i lost 2 hours work but hey ho!

crits would be awesome as im not sure of it! I think i need to go in and actually model some of the damage on the edges, some of the bigger bits anyway!
although this for one of the columns standing against the outer walls so i dont even know how much detail i should give them!

SHEPEIRO

those details look a tad too thin and whispy for a massive stone pillar...


also worth making a polys worth of overlap on the HP and LP (although out of 0-1 in the UVs so it doesnt render) will give you a much better bake once you rotate... you can also do an extra strip down one sidebake it seperatelywith the LP uvs at each end of the UV and then paste this in PS to get it to tile perfectly

SaferDan

awesome i will try to beef them up a bit!

im not actually rotating this column as its only half pressed up against a wall there is the modular piece, and there will actually be a arch roof, so the two upper most faces probably wont be there!

SaferDan

so ive beefed up the damage and sculpted the column crits would be awesome!



also i have a question about laying out my uvs and maps. Does each modular piece have its own map yes? and what size?like this would be the outer wall and part of the floor so would i make it a 1024 as its actually part of the main building?

Shogun3d

Break down your sculpts into three stages. Largest frequency of details, chunks, and damage, to medium sculpting, to small details and high frequency detailing.

As Shep mentioned, the damage looks small and miniscule for such a large prop. Don't be afraid to shear off some chunks and get some cool looking large areas of damage.

To answer your question, your modular pieces should be sharing the same map. You should arrage your textures sizes based on visual priority and in a "game related" note should be the most detailed based on what the player can walk up to and most often.