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  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    Why not just bake it in Xnormal?

    I got a decent result by removing all lights but the sky, setting the sky to a bright white color, applying a subsurface material to my mesh, changing the subsurface parameters, baking the subsurface direct pass to a 32-bit float buffer, saving that out as exr 32-bit, applying a diffuse material to my mesh, baking the diffuse direct pass to a 32-bit float buffer, and using the compositor to find the difference between the two bakes. But it would be a lot faster and probably more technically correct to just use Xnormal to bake it, and you'd be able to have antialiasing too, and much better batching support.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    Also you can get something similar to doublesmoothing with edge crease weights and it's been in Blender basically forever.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yeah, but regular edge creasing totally defeats the purpose of working with edge hardness-driven subdivision ...

    I agree that It doesn't seem like much of a difference in principle, but in practice it is night and day. Double smoothing based on smoothing groups is about 100 times more popular than creasing in Max for a reason :)
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    pior wrote: »
    Yeah, but regular edge creasing totally defeats the purpose of working with edge hardness-driven subdivision ...

    I agree that It doesn't seem like much of a difference in principle, but in practice it is night and day. Double smoothing based on smoothing groups is about 100 times more popular than creasing in Max for a reason :)

    i'd agree, but recently i started doing it more with creases for various reasons.

    First of all some clients want chamfered meshes, not doublesmoothed geometry, to have a base they can easily manipulate. While those meshes are not ideal for sculpting, for hardsurface this is great. So quadchamfer im combination with creases opens a whole new world of flexibility.

    That said, creases in Max are horrible for various reasons, it's cumbersome to set them up by hand and they are not previewed in the edges. Which i think they are in Blender.

    So what i usually do for doublesmooth is select faces i want a nice sharp edge around and assign a smoothinggroup via script.
    But from there on creases should be able to do the exact same. Instead of assigning smoothing group the script should

    assign SGS or Hardedges to get the visuals
    select border
    assign generic crease value to border

    and another script which will:

    apply smooth modifier
    apply second smooth modifier
    ideally instanced

    this would make the workflow exactly the same as doublesmooth in max to but, but with the flexibility of making certain edges sharper or softer. And in blender it would visualise the edges for you, sadly not in max. but oh well.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yeah, assigning creasing based on hard edges through scripting would probably be a very trivial thing to do for anyone familiar with Python. I will probably post a design doc about it on BlenderArtists in the future, as some kind soul would probably be more than willing to do it. As a matter of fact, a simple script automatically selecting all the hard edges of a model would be a great first step.

    As for the viability of double smoothing in production, I agree - this is certainly not a one-size fits all solution, since at the end of the day it is not that finely controllable. It sure saved my butt a few times though !

    Chiniara, to see lowpoly hard edges in the viewport you need :

    - "Shading" to be set to "Smooth" in the left panel ;
    - "Normals / Autosmooth" to be turned on and set to 180 in the data tab of the object (this is the part that I initially didn't understand, but it actually makes sense)
    - and then in edit mode, perform "Edges - Mark Sharp".

    I hope this helps !
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 20
    does selecting an sharp edge, pressing shift g for "select similar" and then selecting sharpness do the trick?
  • Nosslak
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    Nosslak polycounter lvl 12
    Blender already have the doublesmooth workflow nailed down. All you have to do is crease the edges and then add 2 subdivision surface modifiers in your stack. Here's a quick example with a cube for you:
    Blender%20doublsmooth.png
    I was very surprised when someone told me that the second subsurf modifier ignores the creasing, but that is how it works. This behavior is not very widely known, but nothing really stops anyone from using the doublesmooth workflow in Blender.
  • Ruka
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    Ruka polycounter lvl 5
    pior wrote: »
    - "Normals / Autosmooth" to be turned on and set to 180 in the data tab of the object (this is the part that I initially didn't understand, but it actually makes sense)

    I don't get the purpose of the Autosmooth option to be honest. I never used that.
    I just set the mesh to smooth shading in the T panel and mark the edges hard that should be hard and finally add a edge split modifier. That always worked for me.
    Still it bugs me not to understand what that auto smooth thing is useful for, since some people here mentioned it.
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    Nosslak wrote: »
    Blender already have the doublesmooth workflow nailed down. All you have to do is crease the edges and then add 2 subdivision surface modifiers in your stack. Here's a quick example with a cube for you:
    Blender%20doublsmooth.png
    I was very surprised when someone told me that the second subsurf modifier ignores the creasing, but that is how it works. This behavior is not very widely known, but nothing really stops anyone from using the doublesmooth workflow in Blender.

    yeah but the thing is, in many cases setting up SGs is just way faster than selecting all border edges by hand, but all this could be done in script. In Blender and Max. it could be even case sensitive, if you select faces it will do it on the border edges if you select edges it will apply a standard value to those edges. making it more flexible than doublesmooth in max is for me right now.
  • Nosslak
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    Nosslak polycounter lvl 12
    Ruka wrote: »
    I don't get the purpose of the Autosmooth option to be honest. I never used that.
    I just set the mesh to smooth shading in the T panel and mark the edges hard that should be hard and finally add a edge split modifier. That always worked for me.
    Still it bugs me not to understand what that auto smooth thing is useful for, since some people here mentioned it.
    Autosmooth smooths your mesh depending on the angles between faces. If you make a cube and set autosmooth to maybe 80 or so it will make the edges hard automatically for it. If you add a sphere to the same object it will look just as smooth as you'd expect it to.
    The only thing that's really confusing about the whole autosmooth thing is why it's not turned on by default, especially when it's got such a high default value that it won't break anyones model. I asked for it to be turned on by default a while back, but I don't think anyone showed any interest.
    Neox wrote: »
    yeah but the thing is, in many cases setting up SGs is just way faster than selecting all border edges by hand, but all this could be done in script. In Blender and Max
    Scripting would speed it up a little bit further but you could just use the 'Select Similar' feature while in edge mode, select already assigned hard edges or select them by face angles and from there apply your creasing. It sounds kind of convoluted but once you do it a few times it's pretty quick, a script would however make it even quicker.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    I just set the mesh to smooth shading in the T panel and mark the edges hard that should be hard and finally add a edge split modifier. That always worked for me.
    Still it bugs me not to understand what that auto smooth thing is useful for, since some people here mentioned it.

    From what I understand, the "edge split" modifier workflow effectively ... splits the edges, which is not desirable in a majority of cases.

    As for autosmooth, it can be a great presentation tool when set to medium values like 30/40. As a matter of fact in some cases it can even be used as a visual help when modeling, as it will basically indicate if a shape is strong enough or not. It is a bit of an exotic tip, but helpful nonetheless.

    Nossiak : yeah, I am aware of that of course. But as said earlier, in practice things are different. Imagine starting from the model shown in the screenshot I linked above, and having to mark all these edges manually - it would take forever, and similarly, marking them as "creased" while modeling wouldn't be an option either since there is no way to preview that without actually subdividing the model. As Neox said, a script going back and forth between hard edges and creased edges would help.

    [edit] Frankie : looks like "select similar - sharpness" does the trick ! It is a bit convoluted but it does work so no need for a script then (aside from the subtleties mentioned by Neox). I am still hoping that one day, the subdivision modifier will have the option of simply taking hard edges into account but that's probably just a matter of time anyways, and implementing Opensubdiv is understandably a much higher priority right now.
  • Ruka
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    Ruka polycounter lvl 5
    Interesting to hear about the presentation and visual use of the auto smooth option. I might play with that in the future.
    As for the edge split modifier. The edges get only split if you apply that modifier. Otherwise it's non-destructible like all of Blender's modifiers. And in a game engine, the verts get split anyways where the hard edges appear. Or am I wrong?
    But I'm always open to hear about better workflows. That's why I'm reading here :)
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yeah, but having to keep a modifier on a model just for visualization purposes is a bit of a hindrance - for instance you would have to think about it each time you want to merge parts, split models, and so on ... The way I see things is : "the less brain noise, the better". As a matter of fact, after trying the "regular" hard edges method outlined above I am convinced that you will feel the same too :)

    I also know for a fact that at least in Maya (and maybe Max too ?), merging parts with crease information on them causes issues (it has been addressed to an extend in recent releases of Maya, but iirc there are still some lingering problems) whereas the bold on/off nature of hard edges seems to be better handled and never "dropped". I am totally willing to admit that this is part of the reason why I tend to be wary of edge creasing in general - once you loose valuable work (even just once) because of an unstable tool, it is hard to go back to it and trust it again, even in a different program.

    I personally see hard edges not so much as an "end step" (in which case, any trick, even convoluted, would be valid) but more as a useful thing to play with and rely on during modeling, especially under tight time constraints. For instance the model shown above was to be used as a blockout/preview so slapping hard edges on it was a way for me to know that things are "good enough for now", and I can move on to the next piece. And of course, being able to instantly turn this visual information into sharp edges on a subdivided model is super useful for later sculpting.

    But then again, everybody works differently !
  • Ruka
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    Ruka polycounter lvl 5
    pior wrote: »
    Yeah, but having to keep a modifier on a model just for visualization purposes is a bit of a hindrance - for instance you would have to think about it each time you want to merge parts, split models, and so on ... The way I see things is : "the less brain noise, the better". As a matter of fact, after trying the "regular" hard edges method outlined above I am convinced that you will feel the same too :)

    I also know for a fact that at least in Maya (and maybe Max too ?), merging parts with crease information on them causes issues (it has been addressed to an extend in recent releases of Maya, but iirc there are still some lingering problems) whereas the bold on/off nature of hard edges seems to be better handled and never "dropped". I am totally willing to admit that this is part of the reason why I tend to be wary of edge creasing in general - once you loose valuable work (even just once) because of an unstable tool, it is hard to go back to it and trust it again, even in a different program.

    I personally see hard edges not so much as an "end step" (in which case, any trick, even convoluted, would be valid) but more as a useful thing to play with and rely on during modeling, especially under tight time constraints. For instance the model shown above was to be used as a blockout/preview so slapping hard edges on it was a way for me to know that things are "good enough for now", and I can move on to the next piece. And of course, being able to instantly turn this visual information into sharp edges on a subdivided model is super useful for later sculpting.

    But then again, everybody works differently !

    Thanks for the explanation. I find that really interesting how people tackle that in different ways. I'll give your method definitely a spin next time. I'm always open to different approaches.
  • MmAaXx
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    MmAaXx polycounter lvl 10
    New AO and DOF in viewport!
    You find it only in the recent builds.

    image.jpg
  • Ruka
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    Ruka polycounter lvl 5
    MmAaXx wrote: »
    New AO and DOF in viewport!
    You find it only in the recent builds.

    image.jpg

    Wow that's some sexy stuff.
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    but whats up with the aliasing?

    also dof should dof the whole thing not just within the silhouette, this way it's rather useless?
  • Lamoot
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    Lamoot polycounter lvl 7
    For now, viewport effects don't play along with antialiasing.
    http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Release_Notes/2.74/UI
    Limitations:
    • The current system depends on the scene depth buffer to generate information for the effects. As such, any drawing that writes to the depth buffer, such as widgets and wires will contribute in the effects.
    • The SSAO effect relies on the surface normals to function, however since the current system is not true deferred shading, those get composited from the depth buffer and smooth shading is not taken into account. Also there will be artifacts at mesh edges due to the composited nature of the normals.
    • Multisampling will not work in this first iteration - it requires too much memory to do properly.

    From what I gather, the viewport internals are still work in progress, improving as they go.
  • MmAaXx
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    MmAaXx polycounter lvl 10
    Neox wrote: »
    but whats up with the aliasing?

    also dof should dof the whole thing not just within the silhouette, this way it's rather useless?

    The dof is not blurring the BG because I cut it out in photoshop xD, lol.
    the dof is associated to the active camera, that means that it works seamless between viewport and render. the focuse basically is made using an empty (null) object.

    For the AA, is not in the viewport yet, but you can force by your videocard and it works if you make a "playblast".

    enjoy.
  • liquidape
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  • Shadowstep
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    Shadowstep polycounter lvl 9
    liquidape wrote: »

    I haven't dabbled with animating yet, so I don't understand any of this. What's the big deal?
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    They're working on figuring out a way to avoid destroying animation takes that people don't want destroyed, which is really good news in my opinion because remembering to click that F for every take to force it to be saved is really a pain and I forget to do it too often.

    I hope that whatever the change is will also apply to materials.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    There is a way to prevent Blender from override your selection when you switch selection mode (Edges, Vertices and Faces)?
  • Yadoob
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    Yadoob polycounter lvl 7
    You can use Ctrl when switching.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    Yadoob wrote: »
    You can use Ctrl when switching.

    Thanks, but this clears only your selection, I was looking for a way to have some faces selected and while working on vertices/edges, have those faces still there when I switch back to face mode.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    SonicBlue : I am confused, this is exactly how it works by default here ...
    Would you mind describing your issue further ? We might be talking about different things.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    pior wrote: »
    SonicBlue : I am confused, this is exactly how it works by default here ...
    Would you mind describing your issue further ? We might be talking about different things.

    Sure, let's say you are selecting some faces, then you see that they are not straight, switching to vertex mode to set your 3D cursor and then to edge mode to select the affected edges that you want to straight. At this point, when you came back to faces mode, you lost your selection, the first one you made.

    Same thing to make them planar, I know that you can first set the 3D cursor, and then make the selection, but well, if you didn't notice this first it's a problem to select them back again.

    The workaround would be to set a selection (Selection Tag in Cinema 4D or Cluster in XSI), but I couldn't find a way to do that too.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Haaa I see what you mean now. Maybe there is an option for it somewhere ?

    The thing is, many users would rather have the other behavior (which is default at the moment) which is to maintain the current selection across the different selection modes. However if you clearly document what you want, with a video and/or mockups, the devs could very well implement it as an option, or, someone one the BlenderArtists forums could maybe script it for you.
  • Yadoob
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    Yadoob polycounter lvl 7
    Normally i would say "vertex group" to keep selection...but it doesn't work well with Face selection (if you have a checker of face selected for example).
    You can use however various tricks like assign an other material to the selected face then use the Shift-G : selected by materials. Or split the selected face with Y then L to reselect.
    That's not the best, the better way would be to have a Face Group inside Blender...I saw it once but i don't know what happens to him :)
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    Remembering what you have selected while moving to other modes is not that essential, it would have been better if Blender had the usual functions you expect from a 3D software, usually to convert your selection to another there is a specific command, and by default you can select what you want in the different modes.

    I'll try to make a video, even though it's already clear what the "problem" is :)
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yeah man totally, showing things clearly with a mockup of what you want is usually the best thing.
    Just be careful to not label it as a "problem" or something that Blender does "wrong", because even thought there *are* some bugs and issues in Blender, this isn't one of them - this is just you asking for an interesting feature. Presenting it as such is usually the best way to get traction on getting something implemented.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    Of course, I put that into quotes because it's a problem I have with the software, not a Blender problem itself, my workflow is based on that, so I'd expect to behave in a way that is not intrinsic to it.
  • xrg
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    xrg polycounter lvl 10
    Testbuilds for 2.74 are up (These are standalone so you can test your stuff without installing over your current stable).

    Release notes.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    Cavity mask for mesh painting is in? Nice! That will really help out with roughness maps.

    Also I appreciate the developer humor when talking about bug fixes:

    "As for every Blender release, no bugs were fixed. Creating new ones is much more fun!"
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    Did anyone else experienced funky results with the Knife Tool?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoK-RBLIULE[/ame]


    this happens in 2.73 ad 2.74
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 20
    I never see it, and I'm not saying its ok to be broken but in that particular situation a better workflow might be to make and select the end vert then select the start vert and press j to "connect vertex path". Or use ctrl R for loop cut then connect the part it wont do with j
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Frankie, a workaround is irrelevant though ... if it's a bug, it's a bug :)
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 20
    I know but was just suggesting a better workflow as that looks so inefficient, agreed bug is terrible though
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    Yeah, I did that part with Loop Cut tool, I just triggered the Knife bug since I was recording another video for a post on Blenderartist (that is still waiting approval) and took the chance to film it, it usually happens while cutting many consecutive edges. A possible workaround is to cut few piece per time, but it's easy to forgot, I tend to cut a lot with the knife in Cinema 4D.


    Thanks for the suggestion of the Connect Vertex Path ;D

    There are other ways to cut edges? The CTRL+R way is not optimal if you are cutting long polygons and the model is not perfectly framed in the view.
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 20
    not sure what you mean "are there are other ways to cut edges", is connect vertex path not doing it for you?

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1693140/connectvertexedges.gif

    (actually I think it changed to be connect vertex path in the latest test build and in the current release its just called connect)

    Also if you ring select edges(so all the ones you want to cut next to each other like | | | | | are selected) you can do "subdivide" and it auto joins in the center maybe that helps? Although it's a bit awkward to make the selection efficiently and I can't convert "pick shortest path" from face mode to the edge ring selection needed.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    It works, it works, I was just curious about other tools that I may not know.

    I also know the Edge ring split since it was used a lot by Max users, even though I never used this technique since Cinema 4D knife is quite capable, it can easily split a polygon at a defined percentage.

    What I find strange is that I can't cut where I pointed the mouse, the Loop Cut always starts at 50% and you have to move it afterwards, instead of cutting directly where you want and eventually move the cut to another position.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Hey guys, sorry for not reading much in this thread, but it's freakishly huge to trawl through. I already googled most of these things and haven't found very satisfactory answers.
    So I'm learning Blender, I like it a lot more than maya and it's way easier to get into than Modo.

    But:

    • I don't like how picking the Maya Preset also changes all the shortcuts, making it almost impossible to google certain shortcuts since everybody always names the default ones. Can't I just have Maya-like mouse interaction and navigation, but all the rest default?
    • I'm pretty bummed out about only having one single autosave file; for some reason I deleted a whole bunch of objects and transformed another bunch completely wrong, yet the autosave only has like one version from 10 minutes ago which is no help at all. In Max you could have many, allowing you to go back to a point before stuff was broken. Seems like there's no way to do this?
    • Can I please for the love of god turn off that stupid 'confirm to delete' dialog?
    • Some tool issues:
      • Knife tool does not snap to vertices on other objects and tends to generally be hard to use (just touching an edge without clicking = cut) compared to Max's Cut Tool. Any tips?
      • I really miss Shift-Move to extrude edges, like Max. Why is it that only Max does this properly? Doing and extrude and then moving or snapping is just plain slower.
      • Is there a proper Target Weld?
      • Can the slide loop tool be used a bit more interactive? In max it previews under your cursor and you click to commit it. It's kind of annoying to have it require 2 clicks in Blender.
    • How do I apply properties to multiple objects at once? The properties panel only edits like the last selected one, which is not very useful. Do I need to use separate tools/actions for this every time, like 'move to layer' ?
  • rube
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    rube polycounter lvl 17
    Xoliul, for your first question, I think someone posted something about that a couple pages back (maybe pior?). I believe it was a maya navigation but not hotkey setup.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Thanks, that was a nice video!
  • SkyWay
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    SkyWay polycounter lvl 14
    Xoliul wrote: »

    • I don't like how picking the Maya Preset also changes all the shortcuts, making it almost impossible to google certain shortcuts since everybody always names the default ones. Can't I just have Maya-like mouse interaction and navigation, but all the rest default?
    • I'm pretty bummed out about only having one single autosave file; for some reason I deleted a whole bunch of objects and transformed another bunch completely wrong, yet the autosave only has like one version from 10 minutes ago which is no help at all. In Max you could have many, allowing you to go back to a point before stuff was broken. Seems like there's no way to do this?
    • Can I please for the love of god turn off that stupid 'confirm to delete' dialog?
    • Some tool issues:
      • Knife tool does not snap to vertices on other objects and tends to generally be hard to use (just touching an edge without clicking = cut) compared to Max's Cut Tool. Any tips?
      • I really miss Shift-Move to extrude edges, like Max. Why is it that only Max does this properly? Doing and extrude and then moving or snapping is just plain slower.
      • Is there a proper Target Weld?
      • Can the slide loop tool be used a bit more interactive? In max it previews under your cursor and you click to commit it. It's kind of annoying to have it require 2 clicks in Blender.
    • How do I apply properties to multiple objects at once? The properties panel only edits like the last selected one, which is not very useful. Do I need to use separate tools/actions for this every time, like 'move to layer' ?
    • Autosaves http://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/14413/how-to-setup-auto-save
    • This has apparently been discussed a while ago https://developer.blender.org/T37422 but no changes have been made as far as I know, so currently you can't disable the prompts without making changes to the code (someone correct me here)
    • Knife tool does not snap to other objects, but "just touching an edge = cut" seems weird as I can't replicate that kinda behaviour, can you elaborate on that?
    • You can do that. Press E to extrude and MMB to free the extrusion axis (if it's locked to the normal), then use Ctrl to activate snapping if it's not already active.
    • Alt + M aka Merge is the shortcut you want.
    • The first Loop cut mode is for you to select how many loops you want, with the Mouse Wheel. Then you click and slide the loop/s into position.
      EDIT: I misread what you wanted to do.
    • You want Ctrl + L aka Make Links. This works with your active selection (Select the object that you want the properties copied from last, that's your active selection) and links the selections properties to all the other selected objects.

    Fast reply is fast, hope it helps.
  • Snowfly
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    Snowfly polycounter lvl 18
    * Do Save Versions cover the auto-save requirement for you? Not quite the same thing.
    * Confirm to delete is dumb. Press D immediately after X is the closest thing I can think of (chaining hotkeys)
    * Selecting a component and then control-clicking is Blender's weird equivalent of Max's shift extrude.
    * Target-welding is done by enabling AutoMerge Editing (under the Mesh menu) and using vertex snap. Vertices become welded automatically. Alternatively, you can chain A > ctrl-V > D to weld all overlapping vertices together.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    The problem with that video is that the configuration is not complete, you'll have issues using the Knife Tool.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    For applying properties to multiple objects you can also right click some properties and pick "apply to selected."

    There's no "proper" target weld but you can use Alt+M to merge vertices or if you need to weld lots you can activate vertex snapping and use right click and drag tweaking to move vertices onto each other, then use Remove Doubles (I usually find this in the spacebar search) to weld them.

    Idk about the autosaves but Blender automatically saves .blend1, .blend2 and .blend3 files when you save manually, giving you more stuff to go back to. Just rename the file to "xxx.blend" and you'll be good to go.

    You shouldn't be sliding the loop with a tool, you should be sliding it with a hotkey. In this case the hotkey is "gg".

    For quick extrudes use Ctrl+Click. Then tweak the verts into place with right mouse click and drag, and left click to confirm (or right click to cancel if you change your mind).

    Make sure you enable Loop Tools and F2 addons. They can really speed up the modeling process. F2 lets you create a face that naturally extends a surface from a selection of one or two verts, and Loop Tools has some handy things like loop spacing and relaxing.
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 10
    You shouldn't be sliding the loop with a tool, you should be sliding it with a hotkey. In this case the hotkey is "gg".

    For quick extrudes use Ctrl+Click. Then tweak the verts into place with right mouse click and drag, and left click to confirm (or right click to cancel if you change your mind).

    So, what's the SHIFT+V there for?

    CTRL+RMB is very imprecise, at least, in Cinema 4D you CLTR+LMB+Drag one of the handles of your gizmo to direct the extrusion.

    For me, using E is not that bad, as it involves one key anyway, and you don't have the handles in your way.

    Edit:

    I noticed that SHIFT+V is Vertex Slide, while G+G is Edge Slide, so nevermind.
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