So, ping-pong with Master Yoda, King of Optimization (aka Campbell ) kept going…
I must say I’m rather amazed and happy with the results! In latest patch, we have another 50% or so gain in performance, and we now only use 8 bytes per edge and 4 bytes per loop!
Btw, found out FBX export currently exports tessellated faces, which is bad and will need to be fixed before adding split normals export to this format. Will try to tackle this in the next days (if optimizations suggestions stop filling up my available time! ).
Great news ‑ core code and RNA API are in trunk (commits r60005, r60014 and r60015)! Many thanks to Campbell, who helped a lot optimizing and cleaning up the core code, and to Brecht, who reviewed the API code.
Note that for now, there is no preview in 3D View, and no storing of those split normals in .blend file, as this is only temp data currently.
Very soon (probably tomorrow), I will commit the OBJ update. FBX will have to wait a bit more, as it first needs some deeper changes! Anyway, hard work is done, py scripting is easy
Due to the success of revenue received by the Steam Workshop, The blender foundation has contracted two more developers to focus on the game art side of Blender.
Thanks to the first Steam Workshop donation payment, we can now invest quality developer time for getting Blender work better in game creation pipelines. Im happy to announce that Blender developers Dalai Felinto and Bastien Montagne have accepted a 6 month contract to work half-time on supporting game artists! Their contract will become effective this week.
First thing Dalai and Bastien will do is investigate with artists out there (via Steam Workshop too) a nice priority list of topics to handle. This will be publicly reviewed in our many channels and become part of the weekly meetings in IRC too.
Valve expects that Steam Workshop is going to be earning us a sizeable share.
Well learn more about this during the next months though. But if this continues, more projects for developers can be funded this way. Main focus will be on good tools for game artists though, including features that benefit everyone well too.
This also opens up an opportunity to realize a bigger project related to our Game Engine. Thats something well discuss with the current GE team first though.
Exciting times ahead! Many many thanks to Valve and to the Steam Workshop members who decided to support Blender Foundation this way!
Now, that is something,
too bad this didn't come up before the 'per-vertex normals export' project,
so that Bastien could perhaps work on a full support for vertex normals along with editing.
Could you guys write your requests in comprehensible way,
so maybe we can start a substantial discussion on Blender forum?
Or maybe let's start a new thread dedicated to it?
Now, that is something,
too bad this didn't come up before the 'per-vertex normals export' project,
so that Bastien could perhaps work on a full support for vertex normals along with editing.
It seems like thats still part of the larger picture. This just means he can continue working on the funded project we helped him accomplish.
Could you guys write your requests in comprehensible way,
so maybe we can start a substantial discussion on Blender forum?
Or maybe let's start a new thread dedicated to it?
This isnt a bad idea. I can guarantee you that the developers will see any thread dedicated or posts containing what needs to be in blender for it to be the best game asset creation tool. In fact I would give it to them personally via the developer irc chat.
Polycount's wish list/or needs list usually carrys a bit more weight with them in the game dev area.
I've started a google doc to organize requests - Devs don't have the time or inclination to step through 100 page threads interspersed with occasional decent info.
It's great that they've got two new developers for game art, but what I am worried about is that too much attention will be spent on BGE. It seems that the GSoC projects only serve the BGE community and not the game art community at large. Blender is an insular community and its my way or the highway kind of attitude might get in the way of improvements...
It's great that they've got two new developers for game art, but what I am worried about is that too much attention will be spent on BGE. It seems that the GSoC projects only serve the BGE community and not the game art community at large. Blender is an insular community and its my way or the highway kind of attitude might get in the way of improvements...
It really sounds like you just have not got involved enough. If you get in IRC and nag enough (To the right people) and have a solid argument, you can usually get what you want. Just don't expect stuff overnight or for insta-agreement. You do have to remember most of the devs are not getting paid, they have to want to tackle your problem. Make friends, hang around a lot, give input all the time, eventually you can push the software in a direction you want. Imagine it from another perspective, if you had some awesome art and a solid pipeline, and somebody off the street showed up and said, "You are doing it all wrong!" would you listen even though you have solid results? Probably not. Now if a person comes in off the street and says, "Can I see how you guys do this?" and they stick around for a month or two to understand the workflow - then they make suggestions on how to improve it. I thinks it's more likely you will listen to the second guy.
It really sounds like you just have not got involved enough. If you get in IRC and nag enough (To the right people) and have a solid argument, you can usually get what you want. Just don't expect stuff overnight or for insta-agreement. You do have to remember most of the devs are not getting paid, they have to want to tackle your problem. Make friends, hang around a lot, give input all the time, eventually you can push the software in a direction you want. Imagine it from another perspective, if you had some awesome art and a solid pipeline, and somebody off the street showed up and said, "You are doing it all wrong!" would you listen even though you have solid results? Probably not. Now if a person comes in off the street and says, "Can I see how you guys do this?" and they stick around for a month or two to understand the workflow - then they make suggestions on how to improve it. I thinks it's more likely you will listen to the second guy.
I actually spend quite a bit of time on IRC in #blender, but I've basically been shot down when I've asked about actual game features. I remember trying to figure out how to snap to increment and just got the equivalent of blank stares from everyone. Same thing with baking problems (the old 'Blender's tangent space is better you don't need a cage' argument). Honestly in the last year this vertex normal export thing has been the only thing that's been a real honest improvement for all game engines.
@davisha Add details to the doc! You now have 2 devs tasked with this exact thing! Take advantage of it!
On cage baking - probably was mostly just getting the right person interested. The dev who made the other baking designed the baking for Naughty Dog and now is working for Crystal Space, so he know his stuff up and down, but, knowing him, I doubt he is interested in supporting legacy workflows, he is just looking to the future (you can see cool stuff also on derivative maps of his, which we will be seeing in the near future in our games: http://mmikkelsen3d.blogspot.com/[already supported in Blender]) If you want stuff for your current gen games, it might just be best to add to the doc.
It's great that they've got two new developers for game art, but what I am worried about is that too much attention will be spent on BGE. It seems that the GSoC projects only serve the BGE community and not the game art community at large. Blender is an insular community and its my way or the highway kind of attitude might get in the way of improvements...
Just to clarify, the BGE in a sense is on its way out. Ton and co. have pretty much said their interest is in getting art assets out of blender into capable packages such as Unity and UDK. Any improvements that look to be for the BGE will probably be used more or less for an internal interactive mode instead, where the focus isnt about publishing games but visualization in real time. Getting content into the steam workshop is whats going to keep those funds coming in.
Just to clarify, the BGE in a sense is on its way out. Ton and co. have pretty much said their interest is in getting art assets out of blender into capable packages such as Unity and UDK. Any improvements that look to be for the BGE will probably be used more or less for an internal interactive mode instead, where the focus isnt about publishing games but visualization in real time. Getting content into the steam workshop is whats going to keep those funds coming in.
I really hope it is. Not to hate on BGE, but it's just not a complete tool, and I think it has served to distract devs from what could be a really excellent package for making game assets.
That said, I added my voice to the list. I'm actually really excited about this, as it means that in the future I might never have to use an Autodesk program. Plus, you know, maybe we can change a lot of the opinions about Blender as a 'pro tool' (note that bad attitudes are on both sides of the aisle).
I've started a google doc to organize requests - Devs don't have the time or inclination to step through 100 page threads interspersed with occasional decent info.
That's so awesome !
I signed for FBX pipeline, Cage Baking, better OpenGL viewport (REALLY need alpha sorting in viewport), Multi objects editing and Vertex normals editing
Last thing I would love would be some sort of .xcf layers support in texture paint mode but I guess there's not a lot of game artist who use Gimp so I don't see that happening Psd would be sort of okay for me only if photoshop worked on Linux :poly122:
Is anyone able to access the Google doc liquidape linked above? At time of writing can't access it for some reason (was booted out as whilst commenting on something)
Somewhat related, but if people still want such in the future for engine integration, one of Torque 3d's 4.0 goals is better blender integration since in part they are another (now) open source development platform.
How do I add something to the list or add my support to something on Liquidape's file? I'd like to add a request for something like Max's Vertex Colors modifier. I will write out more details in the document once I figure out how to add to it :P
You could post the basic info here and someone will copy it over? liquidape had to limit access rights as some people have been mucking things about a little...
You could post the basic info here and someone will copy it over? liquidape had to limit access rights as some people have been mucking things about a little...
You are kind - but really it was just me being inept. People have been good overall, and I've only had to roll back the doc once. I opened it up for editing again by everybody.
How do I add something to the list or add my support to something on Liquidape's file? I'd like to add a request for something like Max's Vertex Colors modifier. I will write out more details in the document once I figure out how to add to it :P
It should work just like a spreadsheet again. Tell me if it's broken - Seems there are more little settings I missed on the permissions. Hopefully really fixed now. (It's also possible another editor changed permissions, as named editors can do so.)
Ozzkar, a long time 3ds Max user popped into the Blender Artist forum to share an addon he made for those familiar with or are coming from 3DS Max. Its quite extensive and worth looking into for the 3DS Max crowd.
Ozzkar: short background: in the last ca. 11 years i was using 3ds max for low-poly game asset creation (for games that never materialized - but that's another topic ), from modeling, texturing to rigging and animation.
during this time i was also checking the evolution of blender (first time it even wasn't open source and last time it was release 2.49) and although i liked it it somehow was not a match for app i was using (unstable, lack of tools, weird...)
now a week ago i gave it another shot and downloaded release 2.68a and was blown away. i can say i was waiting all these years for blender to reach this maturity (it even contains 3ds max preset - YES).
however as i've said i'm used to 3ds max so to satisfy my needs (or habits?) to full extent i've coded a small addon i've named 'bmax tools'.
'bmax tools' is basically a panel and on/off toggle-able right-click context menu that provides centralized access to tools that i've found essential (read most used by me) in "ol' skool" poly modeling->texturing->rigging->basic animating (i'm not much of an animator) i've also cleaned up the UI to great extent (see attachments) and added some tools that i could not replicate with native blender's functionality (or i didn't found them):
- interactive align tool dialog (simple and advanced align tools were not the right thing for me)
- interactive mirror tool dialog
- copy selection dialog
- select from scene by name + filter by object type dialog
- unfreeze/unhide by name + filter by object type dialog
@Dataday: Wow thanks a ton for pointing that out, I just installed it and I already love it. I'm going to have to start making my own Python stuff soon I think >:D
Hi,
For a more focused discussion on anything game creation related,
including tools for artists, file I/O, the Blender GE -
I've added a new list:
[url]http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev[/url]
Valve Steam Workshop related discussions can be done here too!
Thanks,
-Ton-
Max 9 doesn't work properly in Win 8, and so yesterday I decided to finally learn how to model in Blender -- my experience so far:
Some critical things I felt were helpful:
BASIC NAVIGATION-
-you can switch the view controls from trackball to turntable in the settings (in the off-chance that you use a mouse on your PC).
-you can set Blender to use left-click to select (like all other software ever)
UI WINDOWS-
-to open a new window, you drag a clone window out using the grippy, and then use the dropdown to select what kind of window you want it to be.
-to close a window. you drag the grippy of a different window in the direction of the window you want to close OR if it's a toolbar, you grab the edge and drag it closed
because I could not figure out how to close or change windows, my first experiences with blender was just getting 20 different tiny windows.
IRC-
Ran in to Dataday in the blender IRC (irc.freenode.net #blender) last night -- super cool and helpful. Unfortunately got banned from the IRC this morning for suggesting "delete" should delete the thing you have selected (like all other software ever made)
Basically I would not suggest any improvements to blender in the IRC, but it seems ok if you just need to ask some specific question.
PLANS-
At any rate, I have been thinking of maybe putting together a guide, covering this stuff, and those Max tools into a blog post....
a lot of the suggestions I have seen so far for improving Blender for game artists seem to revolve around baking normal maps, which I was doing in xNormal for a long time anyway, but not so much core things like making the gizmo fully functional, making things you use all the time more context sensitive, etc
Some things I like about Blender that were not in my version of Max. It's neat that in edit mode it shows the object origin. The knife tool works way better than the Max cut tool. The cycles renderer is pretty neat, even though it can't bake anything.
Unfortunately got banned from the IRC this morning for suggesting "delete" should delete the thing you have selected (like all other software ever made)
You shouldnt have been banned for that, if you were indeed banned. That design choice has been brought up a lot and is a valid subject for the 2.7x improvements/changes. Many continue to question why you need a verification message when you want to do certain things. Either way its just a minor peeve that you either get used to it or wait for it to change (toggled on or off). There is a justifiable reason for it, as its meant to keep the user from doing something they might not want to do but with the ability to undo something via control z it becomes redundant.
Now if you asked that question in the developer channel while they were having a meeting, then yeah they might have cut you off temporarily or if someone thought you were trolling, it could result in removal from the irc.
Anyways most of the tips you are mentioning can be fixed just by changing the keymap on the splash screen. The maya/3ds max keymaps will do most of that automatically.
"Delete" deletes Objects, in Edit mode it brings up and options list of things you can remove.. The way Blender works with data, this allows you access to different aspects of an element depending on the context so it's actually a lot more flexible (although does mean Delete doesn't just delete outright)
I don't like the way blender deals with delete either. Just like other apps it should delete whatever is selected based on the currently active selection mode(s), with an alt function for deleting verts at the same time as edges and such.
If they want to make it complicated, just have a node system for creating a hierarchy of components to delete based on association to the selection, that'll be both unusual and worthless
It doesn't sound right that you would get banned for that. Usually the developers and admins are so friendly and open to criticism it's almost creepy...
However I don't really agree that it should delete what your current selection mode is (I suppose you don't want a confirmation box popping up). It might not happen often but I have run into plenty of occasions where I want to delete faces only, or keep only the vertices while deleting the rest. The confirmation box is really nice to have, especially since Blender converts your selection between different modes automatically it is nice to have the option to delete a different selection mode and still keep your selection intact.
Also the option to remove vertices along with edges already exists, it is under the same menu and is called "Dissolve". I have mapped this to Shift+X.
It doesn't sound right that you would get banned for that.
It was a ghost-ban, but the effect is the same. Kat's response, which boils down to "well you clearly don't understand how to use the delete key!" is the same I got there. The point is that they don't want to hear feedback, unless maybe it's given with a lot of ass-kissing.
It's no biggie. certainly not the first time I have been kicked from an IRC channel for stating my opinion.
I got the BMax tools set up and I am using the Max key preset, which I had somehow missed before. I'm liking the experience a lot more, but it's going to take awhile to get my speed back -- no game jams for me any time soon
All in all, it seems like a decent replacement for 3DS Max when you factor in the price, and that Autodesk doesn't seem to think Max is a priority.
It was a ghost-ban, but the effect is the same. Kat's response, which boils down to "well you clearly don't understand how to use the delete key!" is the same I got there. The point is that they don't want to hear feedback, unless maybe it's given with a lot of ass-kissing...
Huh? I was just answering the question you asked. Maybe different words could have been used but it wasn't intended in any way to be a put-down, at all. In fact I've been highly critical of the way Blender Foundation handles criticism for a long time (years) so it's kind of ironic to be accused of doing said same \
There is a 'dissolve' (not sure if it's the same thing you might be wanting), it pops up in the options diag when you press delete depending on what select mode you're in (or what you're trying to remove).
I mean, I like the delete menu it's fine, but making a script to put on another key to immediately delete or dissolve the currently selected element in edit mode seems like it should be really easy too.
If you use the Blender 2012 Experimental key bindings you can delete without a dialog, I don't know what black magic they did to make that work :P I was using the 3dsmax keybindings for a while but I'm really enjoying the Experimental ones a lot now.
I might be a bit off mark here, as this is not a smart way of deleting things, but I still figured it could be useful for some.
A mini guide for making a more specific delete key:
To make a hotkey for deleting things without a dialog, you have to call the specific delete function for said "thing" (vert, edge, face, etc) in the hotkey settings.
This:
Will give you this:
That should delete the selected face immediately on pressing Alt+X.
Note the python text in the tooltip in the second image. To hotkey a specific function, find that line and add whatever is after bpy.ops. This works for most "regular" tools. For toggleable buttons (like backface culling), it's a bit more complicated, but only barely.
Huh? I was just answering the question you asked. Maybe different words could have been used but it wasn't intended in any way to be a put-down, at all. In fact I've been highly critical of the way Blender Foundation handles criticism for a long time (years) so it's kind of ironic to be accused of doing said same \
Ah, I didn't ask any questions. I just said delete should work differently. Basically I may end up using that function, and it's cousin, what blender calls "dissolve" 100+ times a day when modeling all day and it breaks up my flow to have the awkward menu. There may be some very rare circumstances where it's nice to be able to have that functionality, but I think I will check out these experimental key-bindings Hobodactyl mentioned. The most critical thing for me in an art package is speed.
A setup I found useful in addition to vertex, edge and face selection keys was to maek one that can select all; makes tweaking pretty quick, and should work even better with the selection highlighting.
Alright just felt the need to chime in here on the debate on Blender developers.
I can clearly see where you are coming from. I have had several discussions with Ton about how I think Blender should work and getting rejected always leaves me frustrated. However I really must say that the Blender developers are the most friendly bunch of people I have ever had the pleasure to talk to, and I find it absolutely amazing that I CAN talk to them like this. You can't really get in touch with developers of other software just like that and really talk to them about anything.
One thing about Blender than many people here probably don't understand is that Blender is free, and it's open-source. They give you the software for free and they give you the permission to change it as you wish, the developers actually have no obligation whatsoever to listen to their users at all. Yet they listen a whole lot more than Autodesk does. You just gotta put yourselves in their shoes for a moment, they have been developing the software for years, it's pretty much their baby. Then some random dude that just started using Blender walks in and start demanding that their way of doing things is wrong and that they should change it to his method. You can probably understand their reluctance to do it, which brings me to my next point.
There are three ways to get a developer to change the way Blender works or implement a feature for you.
1. Pay him to do it
2. If you want a developer to spend his time on your request for free you need to catch his interest. If you want something changed you need to present clear evidence of why the current implementation is wrong and how your proposed way will make it better or solve other issues.
3. Get the Blender community together, if enough people are pushing the change it will probably lead to step 1 or 2 eventually.
Open-source development work differently than for commercial software and the developers of open-source software have to deal with a lot of stuff. The core Blender developers all work for minimum wages and many of them need another job on the side to keep them afloat. They could easily use their skills to make more than 3 times more money but instead they work relentlessly on making Blender better for the sake of improving it rather than for monetary gain. They also have to put up with countless of emails from everybody who has access to their software (which is everyone).
They do all that and still manage to be the most friendly bunch of people I have ever come across, that's why I can't stand seeing people discrediting the developers while they don't know anything about how the development even works. Sorry but it kinda ticks me off a bit.
I think dissolve would have "dissolve verts" enabled to be useful.
Thanks for the feedback! I will try to get that sorted when I get back to blendering [edit] I think I have it set to do this now, and re-uploaded to the same spot if anyone wants it
@Ninjas, sorry, I wasn't really talking about you specifically but to the general masses who critizise the Blender developers because they rejected their ideas.
I sympathize with you and I still don't understand why you got banned from the IRC.
Replies
Due to the success of revenue received by the Steam Workshop, The blender foundation has contracted two more developers to focus on the game art side of Blender.
http://code.blender.org/index.php/2013/09/valve-steam-workshop-donations-2-devs-get-hired/
This calls for a retrospect video:
[ame="
too bad this didn't come up before the 'per-vertex normals export' project,
so that Bastien could perhaps work on a full support for vertex normals along with editing.
Could you guys write your requests in comprehensible way,
so maybe we can start a substantial discussion on Blender forum?
Or maybe let's start a new thread dedicated to it?
It seems like thats still part of the larger picture. This just means he can continue working on the funded project we helped him accomplish.
This isnt a bad idea. I can guarantee you that the developers will see any thread dedicated or posts containing what needs to be in blender for it to be the best game asset creation tool. In fact I would give it to them personally via the developer irc chat.
Polycount's wish list/or needs list usually carrys a bit more weight with them in the game dev area.
Realtime, physically-based shaders. :poly142:
It's here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuS_F0ZKX-zTdGxKOEMtRmI2Tno4UUlPZzVfNXB6RHc&usp=sharing
It really sounds like you just have not got involved enough. If you get in IRC and nag enough (To the right people) and have a solid argument, you can usually get what you want. Just don't expect stuff overnight or for insta-agreement. You do have to remember most of the devs are not getting paid, they have to want to tackle your problem. Make friends, hang around a lot, give input all the time, eventually you can push the software in a direction you want. Imagine it from another perspective, if you had some awesome art and a solid pipeline, and somebody off the street showed up and said, "You are doing it all wrong!" would you listen even though you have solid results? Probably not. Now if a person comes in off the street and says, "Can I see how you guys do this?" and they stick around for a month or two to understand the workflow - then they make suggestions on how to improve it. I thinks it's more likely you will listen to the second guy.
I actually spend quite a bit of time on IRC in #blender, but I've basically been shot down when I've asked about actual game features. I remember trying to figure out how to snap to increment and just got the equivalent of blank stares from everyone. Same thing with baking problems (the old 'Blender's tangent space is better you don't need a cage' argument). Honestly in the last year this vertex normal export thing has been the only thing that's been a real honest improvement for all game engines.
On cage baking - probably was mostly just getting the right person interested. The dev who made the other baking designed the baking for Naughty Dog and now is working for Crystal Space, so he know his stuff up and down, but, knowing him, I doubt he is interested in supporting legacy workflows, he is just looking to the future (you can see cool stuff also on derivative maps of his, which we will be seeing in the near future in our games: http://mmikkelsen3d.blogspot.com/[already supported in Blender]) If you want stuff for your current gen games, it might just be best to add to the doc.
Just to clarify, the BGE in a sense is on its way out. Ton and co. have pretty much said their interest is in getting art assets out of blender into capable packages such as Unity and UDK. Any improvements that look to be for the BGE will probably be used more or less for an internal interactive mode instead, where the focus isnt about publishing games but visualization in real time. Getting content into the steam workshop is whats going to keep those funds coming in.
I really hope it is. Not to hate on BGE, but it's just not a complete tool, and I think it has served to distract devs from what could be a really excellent package for making game assets.
That said, I added my voice to the list. I'm actually really excited about this, as it means that in the future I might never have to use an Autodesk program. Plus, you know, maybe we can change a lot of the opinions about Blender as a 'pro tool' (note that bad attitudes are on both sides of the aisle).
Relevent Link (Under "Blender Game Engine": http://code.blender.org/index.php/2013/06/blender-roadmap-2-7-2-8-and-beyond/
You might want to check this out if you haven't already: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?256460-Thoughts-on-Modeling-Tools-amp-UI-Interaction-Looking-for-feedback-and-programmers
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aFxDruEX0zZnWHH5YjEFwJe4g1XqR4YByt_8_HRonTI/edit#
I signed for FBX pipeline, Cage Baking, better OpenGL viewport (REALLY need alpha sorting in viewport), Multi objects editing and Vertex normals editing
Last thing I would love would be some sort of .xcf layers support in texture paint mode but I guess there's not a lot of game artist who use Gimp so I don't see that happening
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuS_F0ZKX-zTdGxKOEMtRmI2Tno4UUlPZzVfNXB6RHc&usp=sharing
Somewhat related, but if people still want such in the future for engine integration, one of Torque 3d's 4.0 goals is better blender integration since in part they are another (now) open source development platform.
You are kind - but really it was just me being inept. People have been good overall, and I've only had to roll back the doc once. I opened it up for editing again by everybody.
It should work just like a spreadsheet again. Tell me if it's broken - Seems there are more little settings I missed on the permissions. Hopefully really fixed now. (It's also possible another editor changed permissions, as named editors can do so.)
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?306867-BMax-Tools-or-how-I-left-3ds-Max-%29
https://projects.blender.org/scm/viewvc.php?view=rev&root=bf-extensions&revision=4753
http://mont29.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/export-split-normals-in-obj-work-on-fbx/
Some critical things I felt were helpful:
BASIC NAVIGATION-
-you can switch the view controls from trackball to turntable in the settings (in the off-chance that you use a mouse on your PC).
-you can set Blender to use left-click to select (like all other software ever)
UI WINDOWS-
-to open a new window, you drag a clone window out using the grippy, and then use the dropdown to select what kind of window you want it to be.
-to close a window. you drag the grippy of a different window in the direction of the window you want to close OR if it's a toolbar, you grab the edge and drag it closed
because I could not figure out how to close or change windows, my first experiences with blender was just getting 20 different tiny windows.
IRC-
Ran in to Dataday in the blender IRC (irc.freenode.net #blender) last night -- super cool and helpful. Unfortunately got banned from the IRC this morning for suggesting "delete" should delete the thing you have selected (like all other software ever made)
Basically I would not suggest any improvements to blender in the IRC, but it seems ok if you just need to ask some specific question.
PLANS-
At any rate, I have been thinking of maybe putting together a guide, covering this stuff, and those Max tools into a blog post....
a lot of the suggestions I have seen so far for improving Blender for game artists seem to revolve around baking normal maps, which I was doing in xNormal for a long time anyway, but not so much core things like making the gizmo fully functional, making things you use all the time more context sensitive, etc
Some things I like about Blender that were not in my version of Max. It's neat that in edit mode it shows the object origin. The knife tool works way better than the Max cut tool. The cycles renderer is pretty neat, even though it can't bake anything.
You shouldnt have been banned for that, if you were indeed banned. That design choice has been brought up a lot and is a valid subject for the 2.7x improvements/changes. Many continue to question why you need a verification message when you want to do certain things. Either way its just a minor peeve that you either get used to it or wait for it to change (toggled on or off). There is a justifiable reason for it, as its meant to keep the user from doing something they might not want to do but with the ability to undo something via control z it becomes redundant.
Now if you asked that question in the developer channel while they were having a meeting, then yeah they might have cut you off temporarily or if someone thought you were trolling, it could result in removal from the irc.
Anyways most of the tips you are mentioning can be fixed just by changing the keymap on the splash screen. The maya/3ds max keymaps will do most of that automatically.
Glad I was able to help earlier btw.
"Delete" deletes Objects, in Edit mode it brings up and options list of things you can remove.. The way Blender works with data, this allows you access to different aspects of an element depending on the context so it's actually a lot more flexible (although does mean Delete doesn't just delete outright)
If they want to make it complicated, just have a node system for creating a hierarchy of components to delete based on association to the selection, that'll be both unusual and worthless
However I don't really agree that it should delete what your current selection mode is (I suppose you don't want a confirmation box popping up). It might not happen often but I have run into plenty of occasions where I want to delete faces only, or keep only the vertices while deleting the rest. The confirmation box is really nice to have, especially since Blender converts your selection between different modes automatically it is nice to have the option to delete a different selection mode and still keep your selection intact.
Also the option to remove vertices along with edges already exists, it is under the same menu and is called "Dissolve". I have mapped this to Shift+X.
It was a ghost-ban, but the effect is the same. Kat's response, which boils down to "well you clearly don't understand how to use the delete key!" is the same I got there. The point is that they don't want to hear feedback, unless maybe it's given with a lot of ass-kissing.
It's no biggie. certainly not the first time I have been kicked from an IRC channel for stating my opinion.
I got the BMax tools set up and I am using the Max key preset, which I had somehow missed before. I'm liking the experience a lot more, but it's going to take awhile to get my speed back -- no game jams for me any time soon
All in all, it seems like a decent replacement for 3DS Max when you factor in the price, and that Autodesk doesn't seem to think Max is a priority.
I might be a bit off mark here, as this is not a smart way of deleting things, but I still figured it could be useful for some.
A mini guide for making a more specific delete key:
To make a hotkey for deleting things without a dialog, you have to call the specific delete function for said "thing" (vert, edge, face, etc) in the hotkey settings.
This:
Will give you this:
That should delete the selected face immediately on pressing Alt+X.
Note the python text in the tooltip in the second image. To hotkey a specific function, find that line and add whatever is after bpy.ops. This works for most "regular" tools. For toggleable buttons (like backface culling), it's a bit more complicated, but only barely.
Ah, I didn't ask any questions. I just said delete should work differently. Basically I may end up using that function, and it's cousin, what blender calls "dissolve" 100+ times a day when modeling all day and it breaks up my flow to have the awkward menu. There may be some very rare circumstances where it's nice to be able to have that functionality, but I think I will check out these experimental key-bindings Hobodactyl mentioned. The most critical thing for me in an art package is speed.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3289323/quick_delete.py
alt+x for contextual delete
shift+x for contextual dissolve
haven't really used it enough to know if those key-bindings are ideal, but it seems to not work to use ones that are already bound.
I can clearly see where you are coming from. I have had several discussions with Ton about how I think Blender should work and getting rejected always leaves me frustrated. However I really must say that the Blender developers are the most friendly bunch of people I have ever had the pleasure to talk to, and I find it absolutely amazing that I CAN talk to them like this. You can't really get in touch with developers of other software just like that and really talk to them about anything.
One thing about Blender than many people here probably don't understand is that Blender is free, and it's open-source. They give you the software for free and they give you the permission to change it as you wish, the developers actually have no obligation whatsoever to listen to their users at all. Yet they listen a whole lot more than Autodesk does. You just gotta put yourselves in their shoes for a moment, they have been developing the software for years, it's pretty much their baby. Then some random dude that just started using Blender walks in and start demanding that their way of doing things is wrong and that they should change it to his method. You can probably understand their reluctance to do it, which brings me to my next point.
There are three ways to get a developer to change the way Blender works or implement a feature for you.
1. Pay him to do it
2. If you want a developer to spend his time on your request for free you need to catch his interest. If you want something changed you need to present clear evidence of why the current implementation is wrong and how your proposed way will make it better or solve other issues.
3. Get the Blender community together, if enough people are pushing the change it will probably lead to step 1 or 2 eventually.
Open-source development work differently than for commercial software and the developers of open-source software have to deal with a lot of stuff. The core Blender developers all work for minimum wages and many of them need another job on the side to keep them afloat. They could easily use their skills to make more than 3 times more money but instead they work relentlessly on making Blender better for the sake of improving it rather than for monetary gain. They also have to put up with countless of emails from everybody who has access to their software (which is everyone).
They do all that and still manage to be the most friendly bunch of people I have ever come across, that's why I can't stand seeing people discrediting the developers while they don't know anything about how the development even works. Sorry but it kinda ticks me off a bit.
I'm sorry it makes you angry that I related the experience I had on their IRC.
Thanks for the feedback! I will try to get that sorted when I get back to blendering
I sympathize with you and I still don't understand why you got banned from the IRC.
I'll try this soon.