Workshop #04 - Polygoblin

1
polycounter
Offline / Send Message
Polygoblin polycounter
Going to get cracking on this workshop in order to help me with my hard surface and high res modeling. Being able to compare workflows makes this very interesting and educational :)

Any tips on how to best present my model (for critiques AND for display) would be great. It is something I struggle with frequently.

*edit* - I should mention that I use Maya 2010 and ZBrush 3 - *edit*

V1.jpg

As you can see, I chose to go with the single-plane-extrude method because it seemed to make the most sense.

V2.jpg

Rounding things out, and trying to not get ahead of myself...

C&C is welcomed and much appreciated :)

Replies

  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    SESO! SESO! SESO!

    V3.jpg

    Going to finish this piece off when I can get this dern' tail-end part right...
  • Graphix72
    Offline / Send Message
    Graphix72 polycounter lvl 9
    Looks like you're progressing quite nicely. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. At this time, I don't have any suggestions - you're still in an early stage - but your geometry looks clean. Nice work.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V4.jpg

    I'm getting there, I think...
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V5.jpg

    Almost finished with this piece...

    Still got some work to do around the bolt, but a majority of the main curves are done.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    I believe this part is done. Moving on...

    V6.jpg
  • Grimm_Wrecking
    Offline / Send Message
    Grimm_Wrecking polycounter lvl 8
    Before you move on I'd suggest re-checking your results vs your reference.
    The left and right sides of the gun are not completely identical. Specifically around the bolt/action/ejection port. the reason its tapered down on the right is for the ejection port; lacking that on the left side theres no sever taper. Theres also no bolt cradle for the bolt handle on the left side.

    [PDF] Winchester--Anatomy of a Bolt-Action Rifle <<-- In case you're wondering wtf I'm talking about.

    It seems like you're trying to rush this instead of just working at a natural pace, and letting your speed develop over time.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Before you move on I'd suggest re-checking your results vs your reference.
    The left and right sides of the gun are not completely identical.

    It seems like you're trying to rush this instead of just working at a natural pace, and letting your speed develop over time.

    Ahhhh, I see what you're saying :

    oppositeBoltSide.jpg

    Thanks for pointing that out :)

    And if by rushing, you mean all the posts, then its just because I've had the past two days off ;) I wanted to start making a habit of uploading WIPs.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V7.jpg

    Fixed the side opposite of the bolt. Added screw grooves.

    Sleep......
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Okay, so maybe I was rushing :)

    Trying to get faster as soon as possible, I missed a few details. I am realizing that I have to take my time for now. Rushing now, only to work backwards later, is not more productive ;)

    V8.jpg

    I am having trouble with the "grip design" on the end of the stock. I think I'm going to have to check out SyncViewS's .obj for a tip on how to address that. Thanks, Sync :)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Right Side
    V9.jpg
    Left Side
    V9b.jpg

    I've been cleaning up the mesh and blocking out the other main shapes. Its taking me a while, but I'm trying to be patient. Doing this workshop was a great idea. I'm learning alot!

    Anyone know of any really good ways to get a wireframe shot in Maya (besides screen capture)?

    As always, C&C is welcomed and appreciated :)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V10.jpg

    Working on the other shapes. I'll get back to it when I get home from work tonight. Mass Effect 2 will be hard to pass up, though ;)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V11.jpg

    Next, I have to focus on the barrel, action, and scope.

    C&C is welcomed and appreciated :)
  • sneakymcfox
    lookin really good, keep it up
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V12a.jpg
    V12aWires.gif
    V12b.jpg
    V12bWires.gif

    Fixed the hard edge that used to around the grip. Cleaned up the topology and addressed lots of other little problems.

    Still working on the scope and action. I'll show it when I get a little further...

    Still looking for better ways to show off my wires, if anybody has advice ;)
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Hey man it looks really good so far. I'm glad to see another maya user giving this a stab.

    I'm really curious about your render setup....mind sharing secrets?

    And check this out http://mayastation.typepad.com/maya-station/2009/10/smooth-wireframe-rendering.html :)

    hope that helps
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    kyle.rau wrote: »
    I'm really curious about your render setup....mind sharing secrets?

    Thanks for the wireframe tip!

    Its actually a very basic setup, really. Basic blinn material (with reflectivity OFF) and a THREE POINT LIGHTING SETUP* (Key light, fill light, and back light all done with Maya spot lights) works pretty good for me.

    I render it using Mental Ray (on "Production" quality) and render a separate ambient occlusion pass (Maya standard AO preset). I multiply the two passes together in Photoshop and, bada-bing, its render-tastic!

    * - I try to use lights that have contrasting colors. It tends to add alot of "flavor" (for lack of a better word) to the shot. Try experimenting with a light blue for your key light, and a soft orange for your fill light. Remember to keep the saturation low. Different colors will be better for different shots.

    I should mention that I am not "in love" with this setup, and will be completely open to any other techniques you guys would like to share :)
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Ah spot lights. I was doing basically the same but with point lights. I'll give it a go. I'm really trying to perfect my 3 point lighting set ups.

    I don't know if you'll find this useful, but a technique I have been using recently is mental ray's sun and sky. (example: http://www.kylerau.com/wip/WIP1.jpg). I'm sure you know how to make it (button in the indirect lighting tab...). Then, you need a ground/backdrop. For my render, I made a cylinder and chopped off the top, smoothed the sides, making a studio lighting type of backdrop. Slap a lambert on it, but make it really really dark... almost black. I added a little orange/brown in it, but its basically black. Maya's sun really brightens up the lambert. Turn FG on, and play with the sun direction. The soft shadow was achieved by turning up the Shadow Softness on the mia_physicalsun node it created and messing with the samples.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Thanks for the tips, Kyle. I really like the way you get a showroom feel with that technique. I'll give it a look.

    Thats some nice high res work, too :) You know the images in your thread are broken?

    V15.jpg

    Working the scope...
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V16.jpg

    This scope is quite an obstacle! Having a tough time finding adequate reference. Chipping away at it, though...

    C&C is always welcome and appreciated :)
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    I did not know that! They are fixed now.

    Looking clean. The scope looks good, I bet the center part is tricky though. Have you attempting the grid pattern on backside of the shoulder pad on the stock?
  • Dim
    Offline / Send Message
    Dim polycounter lvl 10
    A roommate of mine happens to have an airsoft replica of this gun (or something very similar), so I took a bunch of photos for you (including many of the optics). Let me know if you need any more. The offer will be good for only probably a couple days.

    http://dim.blenderge.com/Images/Rifle_Images.zip
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    kyle.rau wrote: »
    The scope looks good, I bet the center part is tricky though. Have you attempting the grid pattern on backside of the shoulder pad on the stock?

    That middle part was a real toughie. Had to think about it for a while. As for the back-end stock grip, I tried it and failed miserably :) Put it off until later in hopes that I will find a better idea on how to address it. Thinking of floating it, but I wanted to avoid floating anything...
    Dim wrote: »
    A roommate of mine happens to have an airsoft replica of this gun (or something very similar), so I took a bunch of photos for you (including many of the optics). Let me know if you need any more. The offer will be good for only probably a couple days.

    http://dim.blenderge.com/Images/Rifle_Images.zip

    Wow! That's fantastic, thanks :) When I read that you said it was an airsoft replica, I had no idea how similar it was! Looks like it hurts.

    Oh, and be sure to post this package on the GAWS #4 Main Thread. I'm sure lots of other people will appreciate your effort :)

    edit* - That middle part IS a real toughie. ;)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V17a.jpg
    V17Wires.gif
    V17b.jpg
    V17c.jpg

    Just a little update on the progress of the rifle's scope and action...
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Awesome! Loving the pyramid grip on the scope. Keep it up man :)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Quick update. Still lots to do...

    V17d.jpg
    V19.jpg
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    V20.jpg

    Finished up the scope (barring any crits). Moving on...
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Fixed a few things that were pointed out and finished up the muzzle break and action. I have a few more (extra) things I want to model, but for the most part, I'm wrapping this HP up :)
    V21.jpg

    muzzleBreak.jpg
    Ref (C&C is welcomed and encouraged!)

    Getting more camera angles is proving to be difficult. Maya keeps crashing when I run the AO pass :( Still working it out...
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    The muzzle break seems to taper off towards the end in the ref pic. Check your silhouette. Other than that it looks really good :) Looking forward to the final renders man.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Ahhh, thanks for pointing that out! I also reduced the center holes a bit. Looks MUCH better now :) Making the bi-pod and bi-pod connector area now.

    I want a LEGO version...
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Ha I ran across that lego thing a week ago. So awesome. I posted some refs for you on my thread btw.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    The high poly is done, but.....
    V23.jpg
    Tri count is at about 1.1 million, right now. The full-smoothed version is about 2.6, but I can't get anything to handle it :poly127:

    This is the only render angle I could manage to get*. Mental Ray keeps quitting on me ("Out of memory"), and even XNormal is giving me a "bad allocation" error. I suppose I will have to reduce the polycount drastically, so I can get some decent renders. I'm looking into some kind of "polygon cruncher" for Maya 2010 (to make it easy), but I've never used one before. Suggestions?

    I really wanted to get some renders up today but I suppose this will have to do until I can find a solution...

    *Note : To get this one render, I should mention that I split the scope and gun into two passes, and triangulated the meshes to deal with the stray ngons. This helps a bit, but not enough.
  • AlexanderL
    Offline / Send Message
    AlexanderL polycounter lvl 9
    Looks great, it's too bad that you're having issues with the polygon count. I guess those rough grip patches probably add a ton of polygons.
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Looks really great man! I hope you can get some sick renders out of that :( I have never had those problems....

    Did you try exporting all your geo out as separate obj's and make a new maya file? Sometimes maya is picky you know?

    What are your render settings btw? FG GI Rays etc...maybe mental ray is dying? And whats your comp specs?
  • Grimm_Wrecking
    Offline / Send Message
    Grimm_Wrecking polycounter lvl 8
    Render in pieces and then composite in photoshop, and if it looks ok, win.

    Make your render cam.
    Just create->polydisk->asign a use background shader to it
    Set up your lights.
    Pick the piece you want to render. (scope)
    render -> save targa (or something with layers and an alpha channel)
    try to render the rest of the gun with the scope unsmoothed and hidden/unrednerable

    photoshop, use the alpha channels to select everything but the part and delete, composite, win? As long as your not trying to get reflections from each part of the gun it shouldn't look bad. It's not perfect but its a work around.
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Got home from work a bit ago and tried a few things, and finally got MR to cooperate.

    Just in case anyone runs into this same problem, this is how to fix it:

    If you go into 'Rendering' category and then Render>Render Current Frame options, you'll get taken into the MR render options. From here you can assign a fixed amount of memory so that MR doesn't run out, it should hopefully resolve the issue. (-"Ex-Ray" from GA.net)

    It worked swimmingly :) Who'd a thought that a solution that simple would work? Still have to flash the BIOS, but the renders are still flying through quickly (under 20 seconds for AO pass).
    - High Resolution AWSM .338 Sniper Rifle -

    V24a.jpg
    V24b.jpg
    V24c.jpg
    V24d.jpg
    V24e.jpg

    Hope you like ;)
    Of course, C&C is always welcomed, encouraged, and appreciated.
  • AlexanderL
    Offline / Send Message
    AlexanderL polycounter lvl 9
    Fantastic! I'm glad you got your problem fixed, it looks beautiful. Are you going to do a low res bake and texture map?
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Thanks, Alexander. I am planning to get the lo res bake done, but I'm not sure if I will texture it or not. It's not exactly my strong suit :poly136: All the more reason to learn, right?

    This lo res mesh should be a piece of cake. This is the first time I have ever modeled the high res BEFORE the low res, but I think I will do it this way from now on :) Everything seems much simpler when you already have the detail out of the way, and can focus on nothing but topology and the tri budget.
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Awesome! I like the bipod you chose to do, and the folding stock is right on! Good work man keep it up :)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    - Low Resolution AWSM .338 Sniper Rifle -
    6,068 Tris
    V25a.jpg
    V25b.jpg

    Been working the low res. Pretty much finished, unless someone points something out. Time to unwrap and bake :)
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Looks great. I really want to see how those normal's bake out. I'm doing my low poly and I don't know if I have too much geo or not. It looks like your bake will come out nicely though. Keep it up and post those bakes! :)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    - Low Resolution AWSM .338 Sniper Rifle -
    5944 Tris
    1 - 1024 x 1024 Normal Map

    V26.jpg
    V26b.gif
    AWSM_normals.png

    C&C Welcome!

    Now, the textures....
  • CasperNilsson
    missingdetail.jpg
    One little detail I miss on the rifle. Other than that great model!
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Hmmmm, how did I miss that? Thanks for pointing it out :)
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Wow your bake came out really well man!

    I'm having a lot of troubles with my normal map baking :/ I was wondering what you did with your normals/edges to prepare for the bake? I get these weird long triangle shaped artifacts in my bakes...
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    Thanks :) I had to go back in to fix a few UVs that could be mirrored, and to add some other stuff I forgot about, but I will should have a final bake soon.

    First off, are you baking in Maya? If yes, give xNormal a try. Its really easy to learn, bakes GREAT maps, and can handle LOADS of polys. It bakes much better than Maya (my opinion), and is much more stable. Lots of other artists live and breath xNormal. Did I mention it is FREE?! :)

    As for the edges, did you set up the smoothing groups on your low res? If not, you need to smooth/harden all the edges accordingly. Go in and harden any edges that meet at 90 degrees (roughly). Also, the UVs should be split at these areas as well. Of course, if the edges meet at (or near) 90 degrees on your low res, but the high res is rounded, think about beveling that edge and keep the UVs connected.

    Hope this helps, mate :) I'm a bit tired, so if this doesn't make sense, let me know, and I'll explain further.
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    cool. that makes a bunch of sense. i'm away from home right now but i'll give this a try when i get home!

    btw i use xNormal like crazy. maya can give some really clean bakes out though, especially AO...you just need to grab a cold one and be patient haha :P
  • WCdesign
    Hi, first of all gr8 model i like it much but isn`t that uv layout too complex? I`m not so familiar with normals but when u will be painting textures wouldn`t be that a pain to paint that really small pieces? Is that a reason that they are so complex? I just curious why it is like that way, it definetly isn`t any critique :)
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    WCdesign wrote: »
    ...wouldn`t be that a pain to paint that really small pieces?

    Yes, it would! :) I have since gone in and mirrored a few things to help with that. There are parts that will have to be in lots of pieces to break up symmetry throughout the model, though. Thanks for the advice, mate :poly124:

    Added RIS rails, and an emergency iron sight. Re-Stacking the UVs now...
  • Polygoblin
    Offline / Send Message
    Polygoblin polycounter
    - Low Resolution AWSM .338 Sniper Rifle -
    6,296 Tris
    1 - 1024 x 1024 Normal
    1 - 1024 x 1024 AO

    AWSMShotA.jpg
    AWSMShotB.jpg
    AWSMShotC.jpg
    AWSMShotD.jpg
    AWSMShotE.jpg
    Maps :
    http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac109/Polygoblin/AWSM_normals-1.jpg
    http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac109/Polygoblin/AWSM_occlusion.jpg

    Since last bake:
    -Mirrored a bunch of duplicate pieces to save UV space.
    -Scaled all UVs up by about 10%.
    -Added RIS rails
    -Added emergency iron sights
    -Added bullet
    -Added a few other minor details

    Barring any major crits, this is my final bake. I will now focus on texturing and refining my other maps.

    C&C is welcomed and much appreciated! :)
  • kyle.rau
    Offline / Send Message
    kyle.rau polycounter lvl 8
    Would you mind posting up some shots of the lowpoly in the maya viewport without the normal map? I'm having some issues, and maybe seeing how your edges softness/hardness is would help :/
1
Sign In or Register to comment.