2 new dell budget IPS monitors (23 inch - $300)

ZacD

Looks like the only downside to these are the mediocre resolutions(1920x1080), but $300 for an IPS is crazy.

23 inch
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-9270

21.5 inch
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&kc=&oc=u2211h


I'm planning on getting one of these for a 2nd monitor and replace my current monitor with one, too, if I like it enough.

EarthQuake

E-IPS, not IPS as in the $2000 high end professional NEC displays etc. I've not used any of new e-ips panels, but they seem like the sweet spot for price/performance these days, however just wanted to make the first point clear.

Pretty much anything in the 23-24" range, that isnt a TN, and is under $500 looks pretty attractive to me.

Parnell

OMFG
After shopping around, almost buying but then deciding to wait for years, I finally buy the U2410 last week. It was on sale, and it arrived today! Now i see this.:poly127: Needless to say I'm a bit pissed.
Oh well, figures.
B

Skamberin

I have two syncmasters with that retarded creamy white issues, both at 21" with a max of 1680 in rez. Now I see this, now I want to sell them or something and just get this
Two monitors would be nice if I didn't also use this computer to play games, which means it always crashes and bugs out because

ZacD

@Parnell I wouldn't be too bummed, the U2410 is definitely better, how much did you get it for? Does it look as good as you hoped?

Ben Apuna

Nice monitors thanks for posting.

lol at "mediocre resolutions(1920x1080)" I'm still working with a 1280x960 CRT that's slowly dying... I bet there's others around here working at even smaller resolutions.

EarthQuake

Ben: there is an increasing trend to release 23 or 24 inch monitors at 1920x1080(TRUE HD) instead of proper 1920x1200

Ben Apuna

Yeah I'm not saying 1920x1200 isn't better than 1920x1080, especially for texture work and what not. Just that 1920x1080 would be pretty awesome too, at least for me.

3DLee

You can actually get a lot off of these by using Dell small business discount codes:

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2025298

Dell UltraSharp eIPS 1080p LCD Monitors w/ DVI & DisplayPort: U2211H 22" $223, U2311H 23" $239

Parnell

ZacD wrote: »

@Parnell I wouldn't be too bummed, the U2410 is definitely better, how much did you get it for? Does it look as good as you hoped?

So far so good! The screen was super bright and clear. Rich colors, and i IMMEDIATELY tested for the pink/green bleeding that some complained about and I do not see it (dell reps say it's less that 2% of monitors that have it so I'd still recommend testing). I set it to Adobe RGB and was very easy to custom work some of the settings to my liking.

I paid $449 from Dell for it, it had free shipping too but i got stuck with taxes so the total was like $477. Seeing as I came from a 21" CRT this was light years better.
It's awesome being able to open and view a 1024x1024 without any scrolling at 100% actual pixels.

I downloaded Portal and it looks great!
B

Thermidor

I shopped around for a ips screen at a decent price and from a good manufacturer a year or 2 ago, and there was nothing under £700 in 24" + region (that did 1900x1200). Now it seems with eIPS there are a ton of new screens out there and if i can find one with the right specs i will probably go for an NEC as they seem to have been an industry leader for quite a while now.

I have a 20" IPS NEC screen and a 26" Samsung wide-screen TN at the moment

Obviously the TN is bright and vibrant, but you don't want to try and do painting on it
I would use the NEC as my main screen if it was bigger.

Anyway , does anyone have a good knowledge of PVA and the later S-PVA screens? Im pretty sure they blow a TN panel out the water, but how do they hold up against a IPS or eIPS?

I want to replace the big Samsung with something that has good colour reproduction.

I know CRTs were huge radiation kings , but at least they did the job.

Rwolf

Save up for the 27" models. you won't want to go back to anything smaller.

EarthQuake

Thermidor, I own two *VA panels(dell 2408wfp, asus p201), and they are both great. Wonderfull colors, sharpness and viewing angles. VA panels have long been the reasonable alternative to the ultra expensive IPS panels, and honestly i'm not sure why anyone would spend twice the money or more on an ips panel. Apple and NEC use them, probably a few others, the 23 or 24 inch apple cinema display which is IPS runs at about $1000, my 24" dell was about $480 + shipping and tax, i worked with a guy who had the apple display(slightly older however) and there was absolutely nothing about it that justified twice the price. It may be different with the NEC displays, but at $1500+ or whatever they go for it just seems insane.

Now i dont know about eIPS, but i have to imagine they are comparable or slightly worse than VA panels, if you're just going by how they've been priced, i'de like to hear from someone who has used both.

Thermidor

Ahh, excellent info - Thanks very much EQ.
just what i was hoping for (someone that actually had seen the PVA tech sceens running). There is some info on all TFT panel technoligy to be got on the wikipedia and if you search through specialised forums, but nothing beats personal experience.

Looking at reviews (not customer reviews), it looks like eIPS is comparable to PVA in that they arnt perfect, but good for a price performance balance.

Personally , i think this is the next thing i will be buying, That samsung TN is great for games films and web - even great for max, but doing PS work on a smaller screen off to the side isnt allways great if you are in there for a long period of time and not just manipulating a bake or photo slapping.

It seems there are a few NEC VA panals out there for relativly decent prices, going to hit some serious research this weekend. One question though for you EQ - have you noticed and dithering on the difference in gradients of grey? Its meant to be a stumbling block of that tech, but i wonder how noticable it is for doing the kinds of work we do.

Sorry about the wall of text

ZacD

I've heard VA's are bad for games, any truth to that?

EarthQuake

Thermidor: Some people have complained about a bit of noise on the 2408WFP, which is honestly something i never noticed untiled i heard it. Its actually worse on my dell than the cheaper asus panel if i drag a window over, but like i said, wasn't something i even noticed without being told it was there, i have to look at the screen from like 3 inches away to see it. So i would say this isn't really an issue, to me atleast.

Zac: VA panels have slower refresh rates than tn, i think mine is 6ms, and worse "input lag", however i dont think either of these really matter unless you're some pro-gamer freak who cares about 1 or two MS differences. I play games without any problems, single player, multiplayer etc, but i'm not hardcore into competitions or clans or shit so who knows.

Honestly the specs on VA should be fine for most anyone, you just get these retards who think their 2ms monitor helps them "pwn noobs" better.

Also i think generally, IPS panels have pretty similar specs, its the TN panels that are "best for games" or whatever, except they have shity image quality, so for game artists like us, "best for games" means something different.

yeman

PVAs do have tone shifting issues, and it results a darker spot that always follow your viewpoint(head). At least that's how it was a coupla years ago, when I had to deal with the IPS/PVA lottery crap with Dell and had the chance to compare them side by side. Don't know if they improved the PVA technology since then.

Thermidor

I think both IPS and PVA screens are slower at screen draws than a TN

That stuff dosnt matter in games, 6ms = less than half a frame in time between your video card and screen.

Looks like at least we can all start using decent screens again, until now there simply wasnt a cheap way of having accurate colour.

Time to rejoice ppl!

nilknarf815

Thanks ZacD & 3DLee! Got one just in time for building my new rig.

-Frank

Rwolf

ZacD wrote: »

I've heard VA's are bad for games, any truth to that?

Unless you a hardcore fps gamer, no. My Dell 27" is VA and I tested it. Has about 0.040 - 0.050 seconds of lag compared to a conventional CRT (I also tested my Samsung TN panel and was basically on par with the CRT)

Of course tacked on with online multiplayer lag it becomes more signifigant, but honestly I couldn't tell the diffrence. Although it may account why I have a hard time playing a Charger in L4D2, and somehow I get caught up by a charger when I'm a survior in Versus.

3DLee

I got mine in Wednesday... wow. Just wow. It's amazing. You guys have no idea.

I've uploaded a few quick test images that I took last night while working on an identity package. I have a 23" TFT Samsung LCD on the right, and the new Dell IPS is on the left.

You can see them all here: http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb134/EvilViking13/New%20PC%20Build/New%20Dell%20IPS%20LCD/?albumview=slideshow

Or, this one about sums it up:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb134/EvilViking13/New%20PC%20Build/New%20Dell%20IPS%20LCD/DSCF7668.jpg

I've only tried APB as far as games go, but everything looked smooth without any ghosting or lag, and the colors were just jaw dropping. No more lame uber-dark shadows! Everything just feels "right".

PixelMasher

we have these at work and I love them. Im probably gonna pick up a pair this weekend, Im tired of having different sized monitors at home 2 LG's, 22 and a 20 is kind of annoying, I find myself subconsciously neglecting to use the 20 and so it ends up being a bit of a waste. Plus these dells have wicked image quality and color.

KhAoZ

Dell is underrated

yeman

3DLee wrote: »

I got mine in Wednesday... wow. Just wow. It's amazing. You guys have no idea.

I've uploaded a few quick test images that I took last night while working on an identity package. I have a 23" TFT Samsung LCD on the right, and the new Dell IPS is on the left.

You can see them all here: http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb134/EvilViking13/New%20PC%20Build/New%20Dell%20IPS%20LCD/?albumview=slideshow

Or, this one about sums it up:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb134/EvilViking13/New%20PC%20Build/New%20Dell%20IPS%20LCD/DSCF7668.jpg

I've only tried APB as far as games go, but everything looked smooth without any ghosting or lag, and the colors were just jaw dropping. No more lame uber-dark shadows! Everything just feels "right".

Looks like it's holding up its IPS name pretty good. But keep in mind that LCDs do tent to get dimmer over time tho, that's probably why your samsung looks all dim and brownish in comparison.

LetterRip

Hi all, for those interested in the differences between the IPS standards

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/panel_technologies_content.htm#ips

e-IPS

During 2009 LG.Display began to develop a new generation of e-IPS panels. They simplifed the subpixel structure in comparison with S-IPS (similar to cPVA vs S-PVA) and increased the transparency of the matrix. In doing so, they have managed to reduce production costs significantly, aiming to compete with the low cost TN Film panels and Samsung's new cPVA generation. Because transparency is increased, they are able to reduce backlight intensity as you need less light to achieve the same luminance now. This helps keep costs down significantly compared with S-IPS.

The main drawback of e-IPS in comparison with S-IPS is that the viewing angles are smaller. When you take a look at an e-IPS matrix from a side, the image will lose its contrast as black turns into gray. On the other hand, there is no tonal shift (as with TN and cPVA matrixes) and the viewing angles, especially vertical ones, are still much larger than with TN. By the way, the contrast drop occurring when the screen is viewed from a side can be compensated by means of special correcting film (A-TW polarizer), but as e-IPS matrixes are meant for midrange monitors and this film costs money, most products come without it.

Although it's unknown what the "e" stands for here, it's likely that it means "economic" or similar, since these new panels are all about trying to keep production and retail costs low.

Also have a look at this LCD spring 2010 buying guide

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/lcd-monitor-buyers-guide-spring2010_4.html

Elyaradine

Woot. I've got an old CRT as my 2nd monitor, and it's started to die. Been meaning to find a replacement.

This is probably a bit of a noob question, but is having a wider colour gamut or better colour accuracy that important in games?

I mean, I understand the kids at school using hardcore Mac IPS monitors for their design/print and photography work, as colour conversions and such can get pretty hairy. But with games, since "hardcore gamers" (and the public in general really) are using the cheap TN monitors, is there any reason to create game art in a monitor that's better than what the vast majority of the consumers would be using?

EarthQuake

Its good to have stuff calibrated and accurate on a studio wide basis, so that everyone "sees the same red" and that sort of thing, but no for games work, unlike print work it isn't essential. Like you mention it is quite relative to the display the end user has, and as such its important for testing to use a wide variety of configurations. When it comes to art direction however, its important that everyone is on the same page.

Elyaradine

Woo! Thanks for clearing that up for me.

ZacD

Not essential, but having better tools can make your job easier.

3DLee

I've argued that it's important for any design related work, be it print, web, or game art. I put it like this: If I know for sure that the colors in my texture are what I want them to be, and Bob Consumer has a crappy Walmart LCD and it displays them incorrectly, well at least it's only off one time over.

But, if I also have a crappy screen, well then the color I used for my texture isn't actually what I think it is and when Bob Consumer sees it it now looks that much worse.

Ben Apuna

@3DLee or anyone that has one of these monitors:

Have you noticed any tinting issues as described in this thread over at [H]ardForum?

Basically a yellow to blue tint that is visible from one side of the screen to the other.

3DLee

I haven't seen any tinting on my screen after testing with pure whites, blacks, and some test gradient full screen images.

Ben Apuna

Awesome! thanks.

I'm glad your monitor is all good.

I think I'm going to pick one up really soon.

Flava-Fly

Got the 2311 today and have to say its fantastic! Sharp and vivid colours. Its my first IPS (never been able to afford one before) and I'm impressed. Phoned Dell and they gave me the 3 year warranty with dead pixel replacement even through I got it from another seller at 1/3 of the price.

Blows my old Samsung out of the water! I don't have a professional hardware calibrator so I'm sure it can look better but would it work if someone with the good calibrator sent you a colour profile? Has anyone got it hooked in to share?

FAT_CAP

Where did you end up getting yours from Flava-Fly? I'm looking into replacing my second monitor soon and 1/3 of the price that DEll is offering htem for sounds like a good deal!

Flava-Fly

Its £320 on the UK Dell site I think and only £260 on ebuyer.co.uk - I have used ebuyer for bits and bobs over the years and there a reputable seller. Was worried I wouldn't be eligible for the warranty pixel+ service but just call Dell and its fine.

oXYnary

Curious.

"1 Digital Visual Interface connectors (DVI-D) with HDCP
DisplayPort (DP)
Video Graphics Array (VGA)"


So no HDMI port? Does a HDCP DVI require a different plug than normal to enable the HDCP? And what the heck is a DP port?

Are there any 120hz versions on the pipeline in IPS? Mostly because I can "feel" the 60hz of regular LCD. Of course regular old school tubes were the worst at 60hz that I could really see. Always bugged me people would leave their refresh default.

Maybe I can get those glasses that supposedly help. Though that would shift the color right?

Yes Im bumping. Trying to get a feel for the LCD market.

haiddasalami

To my knowledge the 23 and 21 inch models dont have HDMI. If you want that you're gonna have to fork over for the 24 inch and above

HDCP is an encryption to prevent copying video. You dont need any special cable just a HDCP device (PS3)

Display ports were made to replace DVI and are mainly found on all Mac laptops and other laptops

I'm no monitor expert, just what I know. Probably someone better than me in that field can explain stuff better but that should give you the jist of it.

Snowfly

My 2311H just arrived! Haven't calibrated it yet but so far looks great, nice contrast even in dark areas and no signs of tinting. I do notice a bit of swimming though, especially in flat dark gray or green areas.. not very Polycount friendly then. Anyone else seeing this?