Mauser SP66

Revel

Hi guys, this would be my second post in Polycount..I dont know whether anyone saw my first post on the "What are you working on 2010 edition" thread, since every first post will delayed 1 - 2 days..

Anyway, I'm working on the high poly weapon model, Mauser SP66 sniper rifle..I guess every boys who do 3D has already create a gun in one point of their life! :poly121:

So here goes!

Frame 01


Frame 02


Frame03 - Love to add some characteristic to my work


Frame 04


Frame 05


And here are some wire shots



I have to say thanks for Racer445 (I know you're there buddy..heheh) for his great tutorials on the complete weapon creation. It teach me a lot about texture creation, well this is my first attempt on doing a full texture creation from scratch.

Comments and suggestions will be much appreciated, since I'm not too sure about the diffuse quality and specular map stuff.

Cheers
_Revel

P442

the metal looks pretty good, but the wood needs some work. Its good you have passion for modeling, but your weapon is too high poly. I would recommend looking at some tutorials for high to low poly baking, or weapon creation from scratch tutorials.

wasabi

Certain parts of the wood texture seem to be stretched.
And...Yeah.. Like P442 said it is way too high in poly..

pliang

Not bad at all, but the wood seems like it could use a little slight variation and some specular work.

Revel

Thanks for the comments guys..yes, I agree, the wood texture doesn't looks finished yet..believable wood texture is very tricky to achieve..any tips on wood works?

Well I guess next I need to delete some loops~

EDIT
Here I show my texture sets, if anybody spot some mistake that I can work on.

Diffuse map - downsize from 4k map.


Specular map - downsize from 4k map.


_Revel

Kitteh

4096x4096 is completely unnecessary for a weapon. 2048x2048 should be your ceiling.

Racer445

Diffuse map - downsize from 4k map.

He's downsizing it from 4k to 2k. However 2k is a huge resolution on its own and is more than enough for painting textures on, even for cinematic use in many cases.

Revel

Kitteh
Heheh...4k is a ridiculously huge maps, but I just treat it like RAW format in a digital camera, so it can have wider range of editing and downgrade size with no problem.

_Revel

felipefrango

I don't get the comments about the gun being too high poly since he stated on the first post it is supposed to be a high poly model.

The models looks good, but the renders look a bit monotone. Maybe the textures lack contrast, or it might be the lack of proper lighting on the rendesr. Try using Catmull-Rom when rendering, at least you'll get much sharper results.

Revel

Racer445
Hi dude, thanks for checking out my work. Looking forward for your other tutorials..heheh

felipefrango
Thanks, I didn't know anything about Catmull-Rom before, just did a quick google search and found some article about it..definitely will try 'em out!

As for the renders currently I just set a very simple 3 point lights (not actually 3 lights, but I'm using 2 keys, 1 fill, 2 rims), default scanline renderer.

_Revel

felipefrango

Yeah man, just hit F10 go to the Renderer tab and change the "Filter" to Catmull-Rom. Done.

Asteric

The metal looks a bit too cloudy, and too glossy, makes it look a lot like stone.

Revel

Asteric
Thanks man, I'll take your comments into this quick update. Btw, I'm not too sure about the term "too cloudy" for the metal though..care to explain a bit more?

Anyway did a few change in the texture, sharpen it up a bit, adding normal and gloss map and use Catmull-Rom filter for render. It really did make it looks better.



Probably the pic is compressed by ImageShack while uploading it, but it shouldn't be that bad i guess..

_Revel

felipefrango

Hmm. It does look better, but are you sure you have the 3 lights set up right? The gun has pitch black shadows on the left, maybe try repositioning your fill light or bumping up it's intensity.

Revel

Well, yea I intentionally make it like that to give some kind of contrast of shadow - highlight area, to avoid a plain looking image, but if you comment it like that I guess I need to crank some of the light intensity up.

EDIT
Because its a long object then its better to add 1 more fill light to the scene. Let's see how it turns out in the next update~

_Revel

felipefrango

Yeah, IHMO it's actually the lack of fill lighting that makes it plain, but that might be just me. It doesn't have to be too strong, just enough to fill in part of the black shadows with a nice cool hue.

Asteric

What i mean is, the colour variations need to bee more subtle, a bit too obvious right now IMO.

Revel

Not much of an update. Just tweak a little on the light placement and its color. Not so much of a pitch black shadow area anymore. So here it is..



Planning to create a rifle case for this beauty.
Will post an update here as well.

*A quick question;
If I start to deleting some of the edge loop from this object to make the low-poly version, will it affect the UV?..if yes then the texture and all gone messed up?hmmm... :poly132:

_Revel

odium

It still looks flat to my eyes, but then I just noticed your spec map... Huuuuuuuuuge no no right there, you just copypasted your diffuse and tweaked it a little. Would wood really look this way on a spec map...?

Your metals coming off nicer but your wood is still just not "popping" in the scene, and I reckon its down to your spec map.

EDIT:

*A quick question;
If I start to deleting some of the edge loop from this object to make the low-poly version, will it affect the UV?..if yes then the texture and all gone messed up?hmmm...

Once you change any geo the normals are then wrong and will need to be rendered to texture again. Sometimes you can get away with smaller moves and what not but if you start removing larger chunks of geo, it will most certailly show up badly in the normals.

Revel

Woots, hi odium thanks for your comment. To be honest this it the first ever texture that I created from scratch, but please don't be easy on me just cus I'm a newbie at creating texture heheh..

So what's the problem with my spec map? I saw Racer445's tutorial about full weapon creation, and what he did when creating spec map was tweaking his diffuse map (desaturated, brightness and contrast, etc), or did I miss something important here?

Well, looks like its a bad idea for me to deleting some of the edge loops from this model. I'm afraid it will messed up the UV and make my texture useless for the low-poly. I need more planning for my next hi-poly to low-poly workflow next time. Thanks!

_Revel

Racer445

Revel wrote: »

So what's the problem with my spec map? I saw Racer445's tutorial about full weapon creation, and what he did when creating spec map was tweaking his diffuse map (desaturated, brightness and contrast, etc), or did I miss something important here?

That tutorial is very old but that's a big big mistake and I know I did more than that, even back then.

You need to learn how materials act in the real world to create a proper spec map. For example is rust shiny? Would the wood have a finish on it to make it shiny? Is the metal glossy or matte? Once you figure that out you should adjust the layers accordingly.

Color is an absolute must to define materials and differentiate different types of metals. One might have a blued tint and one might have a yellow tint for example, and usually a blued spec helps define wood with a finish better. Have a read over this: http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=64286

Don't forget to add unique details to your spec too. Minor scratches, fingerprints/oily areas, color variations etc will help add an extra level of detail to your textures.

AlecMoody

It would probably look better if you didnt include the wood grain pattern in the spec mask. that way you can get something closer to a shellac material effect.

Also if this is for offline rendering then you should look into things like shellac materials since thats probably the best way to do the wood shader.

kdm3d

Revel wrote: »

Woots, hi odium thanks for your comment. To be honest this it the first ever texture that I created from scratch, but please don't be easy on me just cus I'm a newbie at creating texture heheh..

So what's the problem with my spec map? I saw Racer445's tutorial about full weapon creation, and what he did when creating spec map was tweaking his diffuse map (desaturated, brightness and contrast, etc), or did I miss something important here?

Well, looks like its a bad idea for me to deleting some of the edge loops from this model. I'm afraid it will messed up the UV and make my texture useless for the low-poly. I need more planning for my next hi-poly to low-poly workflow next time. Thanks!

_Revel

When you are making your low poly, you are basically making a new mesh, and re unwrapping it. Then you can bake the diffuse, spec, and normal FROM your highpoly to your low. (not the most industrctable workflow, but in this case it would work.

I wouldn't worry about removing the loops causing problems. IF you want to keep your UV's intact, you can reomve loops as long as they are NOT bordering a UV island. When you remove those loops is when you destroy your uv's.

But your low poly should have a more optimized layout that your HP.

Revel

Thanks guys! will do some more refinement to my texture sets based on these suggestions for sure. Really appreciate your comments :poly142:
But right now I'm in the middle of some freelance job, so can't touch this stuff for a while. Hopefully will update in the next 4-5 days!

_Revel

Revel

It's been a long time to update in here..well, at last after 1 night been try and error process, I realize the different about specular color slot and specular level slot..its actually in the name...

Before this I apply my spec map on the Specular Level slot and wondering why I'm not getting any bluish tint even when I crank the number quite high..silly really :poly136:

*Quick question:
Is there any specific map to put in the Specular Level slot?

So here is is so far..hope its getting better..



What do you guys think?..

_Revel

GarageBay9

That looks HUGELY improved. The wood grain still needs to be knocked back significantly in the spec map, though. Wood rifle stocks are made from hardwoods, are sanded very smooth and then have many layers of finishing lacquers or varnishes on them. WWII era rifles frequently used shellac or boiled linseed oil, but modern wood stocks are either made from very dense woods and finished with just woodstain, or have a synthetic finish like poly-satin applied.

Either way, the actual surface of the wood should be extremely smooth except where there is checkering or significant scratches. Smooth out the spec and it will look great.

I'm thinking the metal may benefit from a very soft, very subtle environment map of some kind - like a vague 128x128 with dark blues and blue-grays. Something to suggest a finished steel surface instead of the more matte powder-coat it's showing now (not bad, just looks kind of odd for a target rifle).

Revel

Wow thanks man!..that means alot to me..well yea, I guess its my normal map is still too strong will tone it down some..

About the barrel, you can see the reference here and here, do you think I need a reflective/ environment map? it look very matte to me though..:poly132:
Either way I can try to add your suggestion and see how it turns out!

_Revel

GarageBay9

Hmm. That's a much older-style blued finish than I expected. I suppose you're not far off with what you have, although I think you're a little too gray right now, it could use a touch of deep blue. Look how rich the blue in the spec on the barrel is - it's almost a navy blue.

I usually include a very soft environment map on any kind of finished metal that the player will be observing so that it will shift and provide the impression of soft, dull reflections on gunmetal (in this case).

One thing I'm also noticing here is that the wood is giving a very interesting spec behavior as well. If you look at the end of the foregrip and the bottom of the pistol grip area, there's some sharp points of white spec with a kind of medium blue-gray terminator in the falloff, but back around the thumbhole in the stock, there's a soft, wide, blue spec (on a red-brown stock!). I think that may be a refractive effect of either the varnish or the wood itself. Take a closer look at that, it's pretty cool.

Check the difference between the front of the cabinet right behind the foregrip and the wood on the rifle stock. The cabinet has a very deep, large grain that's trapping the light. The rifle's wood is very smooth and has an almost silky surface.

EDIT: I think all those blue hues in the spec and the highlights may be the flash. Maybe a metal halide flash of some kind? Still, I'd throw that in there, it looks cool and gives it a lot of character. It's making the wood stock on the rifle and the wood cabinets behind it read really well as smoothly varnished.

Revel

Now you mention it, I just realize it on the body stock its a pretty smooth finish to the wood. On the barrel itself I did add some white-ish spot on top part to make it not like a brand new but has been under the sun for quite some time. I guess my spec color need to be more bluish then..will update tonite!

_Revel

Revel

Here's an update! Pretty happy with what I've got so far. Its hugely improved since the first time I post it in here. Thanks guys!



A little bit more editing on the diffuse map, but mostly on the spec and gloss map. Tell me what you think?

GarageBay9
You can see another reference here with more "global" lighting situation. This was my actual reference when do the base texture. The barrel not as blue as the one before and has a slightly different shape at the tip of the muzzle. This one is the original Mauser SP66, and the blue barrel one is a collectors edition (with slightly modification). But I guess you're right, the bluish tint give it more characteristic

_Revel

GarageBay9

This update looks fantastic! Let's load it up and take it to the range.

Yeah, even in the more uniformly-lit photo, you can still see the bluish, almost purple character to the spec on the wood. Looks very cool, now I'm curious what exactly causes that. I bet it's the varnish.

I've got to remember to include blue tones in the spec for my wood-stocked rifles now. That subtle effect in the spec / gloss looks dead sexy. Out of curiosity, if you're willing, could you post your gloss map? I don't usually use them, I'd love to see how you did yours.

Revel

Lol thanks! I wish I could load em up and take it to the range! hahaa..
Well I'm not sure, but my guess will be the coating of some sort of varnish also that make it looks like that. *Take note...take note... :poly121:

My gloss map?..its the easiest thing to do lol..
Here ya go..



Basically its only differentiate which past is glossy which part is diffused..so the more white the more glossy it is, and the more dark the more diffused. Probably if you use more than 1 materials for the setting (1 mat for wood, 1 mat for metal, etc.) you don't need the gloss map, since you can just tweak it on the global setting for that particular material. But in this case I have all the wood and metal on the same material that's why I need a gloss map. Glad I can help you in some way too.

_Revel

Tea Monster

That looks a million miles better. The wood looks like wood now. The only thing that isn't there that is on your reference is that deep brown nutty colour on the inset on the butt, that is a quibble though, as the wood texture looks great now.

Revel

Thank you very very much!
Yeap I also notice it, and i did put darker paint on that part before but just not as strong as the reference. Need it darker? Here goes!

A dead ortho shot from the side..



And yes, it looks nicer I guess.. :poly142:

PS: The bottom pic appear more darker because of the light, I purposely did that just to make sure the texture quality both in the highlight area and shadow area.

_Revel