Not the standard Maya vs 3DS Max
I'm know there are probably way to many Maya vs 3D's Max. I also know that both of them are really powerfull weel featured sofware packages. But I wanted to know which of them fits my needs.
Basically I'm just starting modeling, I have some experience with Max at school (I'm not studyng art), once I was able to model a nice Dumpster from references (Not a tutorial
) but I wasn't able to texture it as UWV is really hard I don't have the time to learn it at school (That's why I want something for myself). So right now I'm thing to get Maya or Max for prop and level modeling mostly (So propably Softimage does't suit my need, does it?) So for a noob modeler which one should be best to use. What do you use? I don't like Blender nor Modo interface but maybe later I'll give them a go. I will be primarly modeling for the UDK, so FBX is a must (Both support them right?) Which one is most used in the game industry? Which one makes unwrapping easier xD.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Basically I'm just starting modeling, I have some experience with Max at school (I'm not studyng art), once I was able to model a nice Dumpster from references (Not a tutorial
) but I wasn't able to texture it as UWV is really hard I don't have the time to learn it at school (That's why I want something for myself). So right now I'm thing to get Maya or Max for prop and level modeling mostly (So propably Softimage does't suit my need, does it?) So for a noob modeler which one should be best to use. What do you use? I don't like Blender nor Modo interface but maybe later I'll give them a go. I will be primarly modeling for the UDK, so FBX is a must (Both support them right?) Which one is most used in the game industry? Which one makes unwrapping easier xD.Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Replies
Maya:
hard/soft edges easier to use than smoothing groups (plugins can add soft/hard edges to max)
snapping is better in maya (max sucks in this regard)
UV Unwrapping is better (plugins can almost equalize this)
Max:
modifiers are better in max
some better modeling tools (plugins can help equalize)
Maya has significantly better uv tools, but you can get plugins in max like TexTools that will narrow the gap, and even offer a slight improvement in some areas.
You can export directly to ASE for use in UDK with max, with Maya you'll have to install the Actor X Plugin. No big deal.
Either way, the point is that for the uses you are talking about, either one would work perfectly well, each one is slightly better in one area or another, but overall they are pretty much the same. Both will fit your needs fine. Both are used throughout the game industry, I don't know what the split is, but I wouldn't be suprised to see its 50/50.
Once you become an expert in Max or Maya, it will only take a couple weeks to learn the other package, so its not a big deal.
If you already have some experience with Max, then go with that if you can. A significant portion of the games industry uses Max, and an almost-as-significant portion uses Maya too, so either one will set you up well for any future work.
Regardless of application, modelling is modelling and UV mapping is UV mapping, if you know the theories and best practises then you will be able to work in any application as soon as you figure out where all the buttons are.
Coming from Maya, they are pretty lacking. Your tools plus TexTools help to even it out some, but the inability of 'move and stitch' to work on multiple edges, and the inability to select edges in the viewport for Move and stitch is a big limitation. It just takes a lot of tweaking and plugins to get near Maya's level, at which point it is close.
Out of the box, Maya's UV tools are clearly better IMO. Much of this is probably due to me coming from Maya where everything works smoothly together, so my workflow is tuned to that, and to have that stuff be much rougher in Max's implementation is very noticeable, where as it might not be as noticeable coming from the other direction.
We are in danger of starting the Maya vs Max debate though.
I'm not sure what you mean by "inability to work on multiple edges", either...
Either way, I'm perfectly comfortable UV-mapping in Maya and Max, I just feel that certain tools are implemented in a more user-friendly and efficient way in Max's editor, even though Maya's integration and general workflow is a lot smoother.
Plus the fact that selecting a UV in Maya doesn't highlight the corresponding unwelded UV on a different UV shell is very irritating, that's a major handy feature in Max.
Maya aligns, just doesn't scale, which if you've automatic mapped something, its all scaled the same anyway. In Max, if you have an automatic/box mapped cube, you can't select multiple edges at once, and then move and stitch them all at once, like you can with Maya. You have to stitch each box one by one. Not a deal breaker, just tedious.
How should anyone here ever answer that very personal question for you?
Just take the time and evaluate the packages yourself - it would be way to stupid purchasing something based on random suggestions here from people that don't know you well enough to give the right suggestion.
Especially if it is just modeling for example you could save a shit load of money by trying out something else besides the overpriced dinosaur autodesk apps.
If you really want the vs comparison just google for that kind of threads on the internet as there are already a dozen of them, even here on pc.
I have Loop + Stitch Selected set to a macro hot key works great, one button seam stitching.
If your selecting multiple edges across different loops its going to have a hard time. Is this something you can do in Maya? Don't have it currently installed otherwise I would check.
imo 3dsmax as far as game asset creation goes, 2011 supersedes maya in almost every way and is clearly my favorite. I will talk only about tools used for game asset creation be it characters or environments.
Old features,
First and foremost, the modifier approach by itself and the interactivity it offers throughout the workflow is hands down the better one!
viewport WYSIWYG asset preview.. owns.. even without xoliul's amazing shader.
snapping is if not superior is at least equal with maya and easier to set up i think too,(shift right click.. absolute control)
uv mapping.. the ease of use and speed of pelt mapping simply owns maya. (many might say otherwise, i was challenged recently and proved it. Properly unwrapped a complete not very complex character in about 20 minutes). The fact that UVW is a modifier IS the reason why. Anyone with proper and smart use of the tools can correctly uv a complete typical character in less than an hour easily!
Viewport Display handling in general (hide\unhide categories of objects object display with without mesh shaded or not and so many EASY to use options)
Manipulators, Transform Axis Alignments
Quad Menus (sorry but i prefer so much more the obviously faster quad menus especially after i customize them with my favourite tools)
ProOptimizer.
Symmetry. It is far more than a mirrored instance!
MeshSmooth and the various ways you can control it!!!
Hide\Unhide vertices, edges and polygons.
Smoothing groups and Material IDs
UV Channels
Architectural specific workflows benefit CLEARLY environment asset and level production.
Texture Baking Tools
New features
Viewport canvas... (today i proved, that i only needed to flat map a character, and i was ready to texture it in max even with use of patterns in less than 5 minutes. wont apply to everything but it is a significant boost)
CAT(XSI bought the tool some years back only to rip the animation tech from CAT, need i say more?)
Graphite Tools (this i was wondering if i should put in old or new)... amazing modeling toolset overall, awesome topology tools..and so much more..
Viewport Texture UV manipulation on the spot (this i also was troubled if i should put in new since i could do the same by smartly using preserve UVs even in the past)
There are things that i like in maya ofc. i like the smart quick use of soft selection although when it comes to fine tuning it 3dsmax is easily more comprehensible AND more flexible. I like some animation controllers and integrated physics, and a couple more things.
I am not saying that maya can't do the same things and have the same results like max. Ofc it can. What i am saying is that for me 3dsmax is perfect for my modular non destructive non linear workflow philosophy.
As renderhjs said, see what fits more to your liking and have fun creating whatever it is you do!
They both have trials. Or you might as well try something else too if it is your interest as a hobby. Go through the tutorials with both, invest some time on choosing the tool you are going to use for a long time. It will be YOUR tool. Would you let others select a bike for you? or a skateboard or your shoes?
I wouldn't
boah... I can do the 20min trick in Maya too..
With unfold horizontal/vertical < just magic eheh
QFA, u can have a look at the modo too, maybe EQ will like you..
each software like maya, max, modo has basic unwrapping method. If you really want to get the job done easier, try uvlayout or unfold3d. Those software has dedication in uv-ing.
they are both very capable and they lead the way for every other application in many ways.
unwrapping compared to the way it was done where people were spending sometimes even 4 hours on unwrapping are long gone. People can get stretch free proper unwrapped models in less than an hour and in many cases in just 20-30 mins.
all the improvements i see in other tools (unwrella excluded) are needles in the haystack really.
Some features that i see are impressive but barely needed or already available in maya or max.
if someone had to look for an external UV layout tool that could provide true productivity gains i would recommend that one and is available for both max and maya.
Yiannisk: i think virtually every app has some sort of pelt/LSCM type unwrapping tool integrated these days, so the 20 minute unwrap should be easy to do in everything, and is surely not exclusive to max. Hell silo and blender do the same stuff just as easily(if you can get past you know, actually using them lol).
If i was stuck with max or maya with no choice for modo, i would likely use something like UVlayout instead.
I think i first should learn to unwrap inside max or maya. Then I can move into time savers (I had already heard about UVLayout and it's not that expensive)
So problably I'll be using max, I'll wait for the end of my trial period, to see which one serves my need, by max look really promising.
Thanks everyone for your comments
At the end of the day, with plug-ins you can make either program be very similar to the other. Hell I have Maya's viewport controls in Max because I don't feel like learning two different controls and it makes it easier to jump between the two.
OH BABY. (It must be hard to play poker lying down with no cards..)
But seriously, personally id say Max has an edge on Maya so far as modeling goes. Maya has some really annoying bugs. the bridge tool drives me insane.
Unless you plan on getting a job doing 3d it doesn't matter what app you pick. Especially for simple stuff like doing props, i'm sure softimage can do that stuff just as well as max or maya.
Also selecting UV boarders in Maya... so unbelievably easy max oh hell no wouldn't want your users doing that! For animation and rigging, I'm actually starting to like Max a little more... I totally love it for modeling.
I still have to give XSI a spin, the last time I did, I hated the interface... but I only tried it out for a week or two so I don't think that was long enough to get over the headache mountains and into the planes of peaceful understanding.
Now, if you were to say (for example) that Maya and Max were heavily-armored, interdimensional robots fighting for supremacy in the skies above Atlantis, then that would have been different. But you didn't.
Oh, and Max is better. At everything.
/runs away
I tried them all pretty much, after wading through the detritus, I stuck with Wings3d it gets the jerb done. Except when you need to create non closed objects. Then I struggle and cry and or try another program.
Maya? What's that? A girl? A flower? hahahaha!
XSI sounds like a techno group or something rofl!
Retardation aside; try em both and see for yourself
ZOMG MAYA USERS R FGTS L2USE MAX N00BZ :poly142::poly142:
HOOGA BOOGA
*autotuned voice* I'm GONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
now then....
As someone who has an understanding of both of them, there's literally no differences for modeling. It's not easier to learn one or the other at least to me. I always thought Max was used more prominently but Gnomon teaches with Maya and I'm going there in Sept so I had to learn Maya. You can easily learn the other if you know one (it took me about an hour to get a hang of Maya after knowing Max for a couple years). The hard part is learning how to model things, remembering where each thing in the interface is - just a matter of time.
But an apple a day, keeps the doctor away!
Sorry, but this is blatantly untrue and very misleading to someone evaluating which application would suit them. I'm not trying to start any shit, and I agree that there's certainly no difference in what they can accomplish in terms of results if you know both sets of tools well, but Max's modifier stack is a substantially different approach to Maya's modeling tools. The non-destructive workflow and ability to copy and paste modifiers between meshes alone are very different to Maya.
I switched to Max after two years of using Maya, and the ability to adjust the parameters of base primitives without losing additional edits felt like some kind of arcane trickery.
the reason Gnomon teach maya is because it has a major presence in the VFX/Film world.
I mean that at the end it's the same thing, obviously the ways to reach it are different. At the end of the day you're still shift+extruding edges, checking how everything smooths and so on. But the way you activate each command is different, yes. Things like the stack are just something you get used to, having it or not having it I mean. That's what I was trying to get across in my post, the end result is gonna be the same. So why spend a bunch of time thinking about what program to use if the result is the same (if you're equally good with both programs and modeling itself).
I mean maybe I'm totally wrong here, so yeah. Just how it is for me.
Either way as an organic modeller I try to spend as little time in Max/Maya as possible. Which is starting to get very easy with programs like ZBrush, Topogun, Headus UVLayout, 3DCoat, and soon to come Mari. Hell, even hard surface in ZBrush is a breeze if you block out your initial design and then just retopo it in ZBrush/Topogun and clean it up so it smooths well and looks like it came out of Maya/Max.
When it comes to system requirements, how do the two compare?
I haven't used MAX since version 2.5, so I don't really know much about its current version. I use Maya at work.
On a home computer running Windows and a consumer non-pro Nvidia graphics card, will one perform better than the other? Will I get fewer viewport anomolies with MAX? Does using DirectX in MAX allow better performance and viewport accuracy than using OpenGL in either program?