Hey, thanks for the input. Everyone said to flip the green channel for Marmoset, which is what I was using for the second lot of shots. I'll keep to the X-Normal viewer from now on till I'm sure I've got the modelling and texturing down pat.
I re-did my smoothing groups and pushed my cage out some more and got what looks like a better result. Again, this is in X-normal so no problems with flipping images. I'm still getting a lot of problems around the slots on the slide. no matter what I do, it seems that the slots seem to 'ghost over' the top of the barrel. I'm getting an artifact on the normal map, but I PS'd it out. Please ignore the texture as it hasn't been adjusted from the Marmoset one and it looks way too contrasty in X-Normal.
Here's the mesh at the moment. I've the edge splits for smooth groups are in red and the UV islands are in yellow.
Are those bits on the top in another smoothing group as the rest of the top? That could be your problem because the color could vary on different parts of the uv
Yeah, if you check the picture above, you'll see the red lines around where I've broken the smooth groups up. I've tried running them right around the barrel and just separating the 'grooves' but I'm still getting artifacts all over the shop.
Ok so i went ahead and checked your baby out.
I took the liberty of playing with the model and here are my suggestions.
Generally speaking, your model had normals flipped aswell (but im sure they're due to the import/export). Question, Why did you have the pieces, to which you gave seperate uv space to, physically seperate aswell? I.E you have them detached. Im not sure, but if you have everything welded together,give them different smoothing groups and different uv islands, everything will bake down properly.
I just made images so i hope its easier for you to understand.
Suggestion Numero 1
The smoothing group error on these really pissed me off. You shouldnt have uvs like the ones you have. As you can see, the ones i made represent the shape better and will be easier to texture.
Suggestion Numero 2
A is mine, B is yours.
You had seperated them physically but not in UV space. Also, that front should have been planar mapped (you just got fucking lazy and said "ooh well,lets cylinder map the whole thing...hmm...see everything with a checker grid to see if eveything lines?? naaaah, who cares")
Always use a texture grid to see if there is any stretching (classic b/w grid is the simplest and works ok aswell)
Suggestion Numero 3
Image is,again,self-explanatory You HAVE to understand how important correct uv mapping is!
A- Mine and B-Yours
Here i would like to point out rather ask you, why the fuck dont you go in an optimise your shit? Just quickling welding and shit (see image) bumped your polycount from 218 tris to 188 tris.
Suggestion Numero 4:
Heres what you could do for better lighting and better maps if you have geometry to spare (read: love control edges)
Again, image self explanatory.
Read why sharp angles arent good for normal mapping page 3
I was thinking of sorting out all the problems and hitting you with an OBJ but i figured you should do it yourself
Hope it helps Oh and btw,
Im not sure if im 100% correct here with my suggestions, so please, if anyone knows better than me, to help us out :-D Good luck!
Cheers!!
_________________-
EDIT:
So yeah, basically, its your uvs and model screwups whihc are fucking up your normals. Ooo and remember, do not play with uvs/smoothing gropus (read: touch those bitches) after projecting your maps...and whenever you DO play with them, rebake your maps. always.
Wow, thanks very much! That is great of you to go to the trouble of doing all that. It is much appreciated!
I think my biggest problem was that I just couldn't get my head around how the smoothing groups work. All my previous models have been either low poly Quake 3 style stuff where you had to zealously shave every poly off the model. Or it was high poly stuff. I had trouble getting my head between that to how it worked for smooth groups. the way I originally learned was to cut edges where they joined on things like circle edges and other places to get rid of smoothing artifacts.
I've done what you suggested on the smooth group geometry and I've added a few edge loops. It has got rid of those weird viewport issues. I'll post a pic when I'm finished the re-uvmapping.
OK, I've followed butt_sahib's advice. I've added some extra control loops. I've got one smoothing group and I've completely re-uv mapped the thing. I've got a LOT better result (thanks! ).
I've still got some stuff to sort out on the normal map like the crease on the top of the handle, and the textures aren't finished yet. There is a problem on top of the back of the slide, but I'm going to fix all that.
Before I go ahead and do all that, can you guys take a look and see if I've cracked the smoothing problems or not? It looks a lot better to me, but a lot of this is new to me. If there are any problems, let me know please. Thanks.
Yayy looking alot better than before.....alot better. Its seems everything is resolved! ^_^
Lets see the uv map
Just to re-iterate, you dont have to do the whole witj just one smoothing group and add control edges. You can also split UVs or better, use a combination of the two
That crease on the slide seems like some normal map flipp-age to me... see if you can fix some of your problems by smudging them out in photoshop (so as to save time or reprojecting etc)
Re-re-UV mapped the handle to get some problems there ironed out. I'd duped the laser brackets on the UV map, but after viewing the results, decided that was a bad idea.
Here is is nearly finished. Just got to iron out one or two normal map issues I found after rendering.
A good rule of thumb when dealing with normal maps is that, if it doesn't look almost exactly like the high poly (silhouette excluded) then something ain't right. Right now your normals are effed in marmoset. Most likely because one of the channels is reversed.
Replies
I re-did my smoothing groups and pushed my cage out some more and got what looks like a better result. Again, this is in X-normal so no problems with flipping images. I'm still getting a lot of problems around the slots on the slide. no matter what I do, it seems that the slots seem to 'ghost over' the top of the barrel. I'm getting an artifact on the normal map, but I PS'd it out. Please ignore the texture as it hasn't been adjusted from the Marmoset one and it looks way too contrasty in X-Normal.
Here's the mesh at the moment. I've the edge splits for smooth groups are in red and the UV islands are in yellow.
Here is the mesh itelf, the Low poly and the cage.
http://www.mediafire.com/?wxjmtniohnm
I'm going to rework the grip and get that looking more like the Glock and less like there are bits stuck onto the handle.
I'll post progress soon.
I've separated the trigger guard from the main handle for baking and got a much cleaner result.
I'm thinking of tweaking the textures a bit, but I think it worked out a lot better over all.
Checking out your model.....hope i can figure something out as i havent done alot of hardsurface shit myself
I took the liberty of playing with the model and here are my suggestions.
Generally speaking, your model had normals flipped aswell (but im sure they're due to the import/export).
Question, Why did you have the pieces, to which you gave seperate uv space to, physically seperate aswell? I.E you have them detached. Im not sure, but if you have everything welded together,give them different smoothing groups and different uv islands, everything will bake down properly.
I just made images so i hope its easier for you to understand.
Suggestion Numero 1
The smoothing group error on these really pissed me off. You shouldnt have uvs like the ones you have. As you can see, the ones i made represent the shape better and will be easier to texture.
Suggestion Numero 2
A is mine, B is yours.
You had seperated them physically but not in UV space. Also, that front should have been planar mapped (you just got fucking lazy and said "ooh well,lets cylinder map the whole thing...hmm...see everything with a checker grid to see if eveything lines?? naaaah, who cares")
Always use a texture grid to see if there is any stretching (classic b/w grid is the simplest and works ok aswell)
Suggestion Numero 3
Image is,again,self-explanatory
You HAVE to understand how important correct uv mapping is!
A- Mine and B-Yours
Here i would like to point out rather ask you, why the fuck dont you go in an optimise your shit? Just quickling welding and shit (see image) bumped your polycount from 218 tris to 188 tris.
Suggestion Numero 4:
Heres what you could do for better lighting and better maps if you have geometry to spare (read: love control edges)
Again, image self explanatory.
Read why sharp angles arent good for normal mapping page 3
________________________________________________________
And PLEASE read it,read it, embrace it, love it, live it
________________________________________________________
I was thinking of sorting out all the problems and hitting you with an OBJ but i figured you should do it yourself
Hope it helps
Im not sure if im 100% correct here with my suggestions, so please, if anyone knows better than me, to help us out :-D
Good luck!
Cheers!!
_________________-
EDIT:
So yeah, basically, its your uvs and model screwups whihc are fucking up your normals. Ooo and remember, do not play with uvs/smoothing gropus (read: touch those bitches) after projecting your maps...and whenever you DO play with them, rebake your maps. always.
I think my biggest problem was that I just couldn't get my head around how the smoothing groups work. All my previous models have been either low poly Quake 3 style stuff where you had to zealously shave every poly off the model. Or it was high poly stuff. I had trouble getting my head between that to how it worked for smooth groups. the way I originally learned was to cut edges where they joined on things like circle edges and other places to get rid of smoothing artifacts.
I've done what you suggested on the smooth group geometry and I've added a few edge loops. It has got rid of those weird viewport issues. I'll post a pic when I'm finished the re-uvmapping.
Again, thanks very much for the info!
I've still got some stuff to sort out on the normal map like the crease on the top of the handle, and the textures aren't finished yet. There is a problem on top of the back of the slide, but I'm going to fix all that.
Before I go ahead and do all that, can you guys take a look and see if I've cracked the smoothing problems or not? It looks a lot better to me, but a lot of this is new to me. If there are any problems, let me know please. Thanks.
Lets see the uv map
Just to re-iterate, you dont have to do the whole witj just one smoothing group and add control edges. You can also split UVs or better, use a combination of the two
That crease on the slide seems like some normal map flipp-age to me... see if you can fix some of your problems by smudging them out in photoshop (so as to save time or reprojecting etc)
Great job man,happy for you!
I know how to fix the rest of it. I'll get all that nailed down and post some pics when I've done the textures.
Again, thank you very much to everyone who has helped!
Here is is nearly finished. Just got to iron out one or two normal map issues I found after rendering.
These are from Marmoset.
I've heard about 3pointshader, but I'm modelling in Blender.