Biped Keyframe Per Frame when saving BIPs
polycounter lvl 14
I've noticed that any bip files I save out in a separate max file completely screws up when I import them into another file's biped. This is unless I use the Key Frame Per Frame checkbox. I've started saving all my bip files with two versions (one with an added suffix '_kfpf').
What I'd like to know is A)why does it require a KFPF to get the biped to respond correctly and
Is there a way of saving out bip files without this option and still getting a true animation out?
I'd understand going from 3dsmax to another package but natively should the bip's screw up like this? From a pipeline point of view I'd like to keep one max file and keep all the animations as bip files to be loaded in. Unfortunately, only the key frame per frame files work properly which are very difficult to adapt later on.
What I'd like to know is A)why does it require a KFPF to get the biped to respond correctly and
Is there a way of saving out bip files without this option and still getting a true animation out?I'd understand going from 3dsmax to another package but natively should the bip's screw up like this? From a pipeline point of view I'd like to keep one max file and keep all the animations as bip files to be loaded in. Unfortunately, only the key frame per frame files work properly which are very difficult to adapt later on.
Replies
If so you need to make sure the clips are book-ended, with a key on ever bone, at the start and end of each clip. The curves on these keys should be linear, if you're using Eular, and tension 50 if you're using Quaternion.
This will keep the end keys from trying to effect other keys when the clips are mixed in a different order.
If you don't bookend the clips, then it will save in the middle of a curve.
To really transition between clips/tracks you should use motion mixer and create a transition track so they blend from one motion to the next a little more seamlessly.
http://docs.autodesk.com/3DSMAX/13/ENU/Autodesk%203ds%20Max%202011%20Tutorials/index.html?url=./files/WS1a9193826455f5ff-e569a012180ce5891f55.htm,topicNumber=d0e16485
For example, if set the left hand to use the right hand as an IK object, but you load the bip file on a biped that isn't set the same way the animation won't load properly.
- Update:
This is even weirder. I just found out the following:
Reset>Create Biped>Load dive.bip -results in perfect animation
Reset>Load turbosquidcharacter.max>select their biped>Load dive.bip - animation totally screwed
BUT! Reset>Load turbosquidcharacter.max>create NEW biped in that same max scene>Load dive.bip - animation totally screwed too!
So a biped created in a new scene works great with that bip file. A biped created within the same scene as the turbosquid character wont work as expected with that bip file. What could be different?
Here's a work flow I used to do back in the Max 3.0 days when loading bips was unreliable:
1. Turn all sliding and planted keys on hands and feet to free keys.
2. Save the bip with key per frame checked.
3. Load the animation on a biped.
4. Delete most of the keys, but leave every 4th key.
5. Recreate the sliding and planted keys.
Since you only have one animation, it shouldn't be a big deal.
What happens if you merge the TS biped into a new scene and then load and save? It sort of sounds like the max file might be really old and had trouble being brought into a newer version of max? Generally I keep the bipeds in the scene they where created because merging them has caused some stability issues for me in the past. But it sounds like loading the .bip into a newly created biped in a new scene fixes it?
Have you tried going into figure mode, saving out a .fig file (same as saving out a .bip), exit figure mode, load the .bip motion file, enter figure mode, load the .fig file again.
My guess is that its a sub animation controller they loaded and animated on their biped, which would show up in the list controllers list box when you go to save. But I agree without working with the files its hard to diagnose whats wrong.
max file (mesh removed for copyright reasons)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3647139/scene.max
bip file
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3647139/dive.bip
If you don't restructure or if you load the .fig file from the tiny character, it just messes up the curves a little which is pretty easy to fix. If you select the Center of Mass, set it to Eular, select all the keys for Position Curve and change the tangents to something else. The curves should snap and normalize ditching all the extreme curves.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1306131/dive2.bip
EDIT: I saved out a clean .bip file that's to the scale of the original biped but has the dive motion on it, you might need to do a little more curve clean up.
I tried both ways you mentioned. The restructure to biped screwed up the physique, and reloading the fig file didn't solve it. I guess that leaves only the tangent changing method which did fix most of the issues except for a bendy leg key that deleting resolved. So as a future lesson does this mean I need to always create the animation biped to be the exact height of the target biped? In cases where I reuse old animations this would be a problem but i'm guessing most of the issue was that the 150gu became 150m. I also checked for list controllers but there wasn't any in the save bip window.
I found another way to fix it, scale might not be an issue after all. It looks like the dive.bip file was saved out with quaternion curves and the biped in the scene was set to Eular. Changing the scene biped to quaternion before or after loading the dive.bip file seems to fix the curves also. So either set it to quaternion, or toggle the tangents in Eular, both should get more or less the same fixed results.
Yep physique doesn't handle that kind of scale change well at all. Skin isn't much better but it does load weights back in after a scale change a little better and is easier to clean up thanks to the advanced weighting tools it has. I love paint weights and blend paint is like a magic fix.
With either skin or phy you could transfer the weights from one scale to another by:
- Saving out the skin weights or Phy file.
- Delete the skin or Physique modifier.
- Scale the mesh to match the new skeleton scale.
- Reset scale/transform on the mesh.
- Reapply phy or skin and load the weights back in.
The skeleton and mesh should be back in the bind pose for the files to load correctly.
Monster also has a script that transfers skin to physique and back again, VERY handy.
Awesome! I'd roll with this
Not always but it will help. The leg hickup looks like its coming from the planted keys and shift in scale, so it would probably fix those problems.
The important thing is to make sure your biped pieces are set to the same settings, eular or quaternion. Remember that you can set different pieces to different settings it isn't a global setting for your whole biped. I normally set them all to one or the other. Keep in mind that hands and feet because they can be planted in world space and will always use the quaternion cordinate system.
http://www.guerrillacg.org/home/3d-rigging/the-rotation-problem
This helps explain the difference between the two systems and gives a hint at why the hands and feet will always use quaternion.
I would probably load them onto a properly scaled biped, fix all the curve issues and save them back out as .bip files set to the same settings, just so I (or other people that might use the files) don't have the same problems. But I'm a little anal like that...
I didn't see any either, that was just a wild shot in the dark without looking at the file. It's one of those things that's easy to miss when transferring anims from one rig to another and will surely screw things up.
Anywho... I'm glad its all working!
- went into original max file with dive animation. Changed the max units from generic to cm. Changed scale 1=1cm.
- checked the biped height in fig mode and now it reads the correct height (factor of ten smaller).
- resaved new bip
- loaded bip onto the new file.
- same problem happens. It's as if it still is trying to apply the keyframe data to a huge biped.
Really annoying because changing the tangents doesn't fix everything and it means a lot of reworking of all the other bip files now to get them working with the TS mesh.
EDIT: Looks like we posted within seconds of each other!
If you click on the CoM and set it to quaternion does it clean up the spikes in the curve?
The biped workbench also has tools for analyzing the curves and smoothing out spikes and rotation issues (I hardly use it and I think it works only on quaternion). They can be found on the tabs above the selection list.