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Tip-Zero Effort Beveling for normal maps

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  • tynew
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    tynew polycounter lvl 9
    That's a bummer. I've never thought of floating geo with soft intersections. Very interesting! Thanks for the awesome and helpful reply Earthquake :)
  • Andreas Hackel
    Has anyone tried this trick with Max 2013? I tried to render out round corners of a simple cube, but the normals of the corners don't fit.

    issue.jpg
  • teho
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    teho polycounter lvl 7
    a have trouble to see that effect in render... I'm using settings from 0,2 to 1cm, but i got somewhat blurry edge without round accurate definition :(
  • fajararts
    Hey guys, I'm facing the same problem here as Andreas Hackel

    NormalProblem.jpg

    There are inconsistency of channel green up as well as red.
    I tried render with tangent, local and world space, but they produce same results. No cage or projection used. I'm using 3ds Max 2014.
  • repete
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    repete polycounter lvl 6
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Honestly, unless you need to make like 100 very simple props in a short timeframe, I would not bother with this method. There are too many technical issues and too little control over the end result to merit the hassle of setting it up.

    If this is way faster than using standard control loops/sub-d, you should probably practice your sub-d skills more.

    Much of what is cool about this can be done with other, more flexible tricks, like floating object with soft intersections.

    floaterintersection.jpg


    How you getting that result without a seam?

    That cylinder has it's own set of uv's I presume
  • EarthQuake
    Naa, no uvs or texture/material tricks, just floating geometry.

    However, after seeing some of the stuff Tor has been doing with the edge bevel shader thing, I'm going to retract my previous statement. Now that there is a viable way to do this in Modo I really need to play with it more :poly124: It seems like it bakes out of Modo without and fuss. You can bake out an object space map and then use XN or Handplane to convert to a tangent space map and bring it into pretty much any engine. So that solves a bunch of the technical concerns that lead me to say it wasn't a particularly viable method previously.

    Though it still is an app-centric method, and if you need to send it off to Maya or Max to edit or bake, you're going to lose the smooth edge thing, so probably not a viable solution for studios that aren't heavily invested in Modo (or whichever particular app you set up the edge bevel material in). Or if you're freelancing for various studios who use various software and you need to send them editable scenes, I can see this workflow being an issue there as well.

    Still, looks more and more promising these days.
  • Millenia
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    Millenia polycount sponsor
    Yeah the Modo solution looks a lot better than rounded corners in Maya/Max/XSI. The Modo one looks good enough to be actually used in a production pipeline where as I'd never do this in Max unless I needed to rush a normal bake for a very very imminent deadline.
  • Karaoke_Warrior
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    Karaoke_Warrior polycounter lvl 13
    THE 5 wrote: »
    Same here!

    Instead of using the script r_fletch_r provides, you could just "unlock" the Round_Corners_Bump Map and then select it from the Map Browser, just like applying a Noise map to the Bump slot (for Max that is).



    Guide to unlock the Round_Corners_Bump Map for all Shaders in 3DS Max:

    STEP 1:
    - Go to <your max install dir>\mentalray\shaders_standard\include
    - find architectural.mi and backup it!
    - open it with notepad and scroll down till you find

    # - Round corners bump shader

    - below that you will find a line that says

    declare shader vector "mia_roundcorners" (

    -delete the "vector"

    declare shader "mia_roundcorners" (

    -save the file and close it

    STEP 2:
    -now find architectural_max.mi just below the architectural.mi and backup it too!
    -open it with the notepad and scroll down till you find

    gui "gui_mia_roundcorners" {

    - below that you will find a line that says

    control "Global" "Global" (
    "uiName" "Architectural: Round Corners Bump",
    "category" "Bump",
    "addApply" "bump",
    "hidden"


    -write a # infront of the "hidden" to comment it out. Ignore the other "hidden".

    control "Global" "Global" (
    "uiName" "Architectural: Round Corners Bump",
    "category" "Bump",
    "addApply" "bump",
    #"hidden"


    -save the file and close it

    STEP 3:
    - launch Max
    - pick a standart material in the Material Editor
    - under the Maps rollout klick on the bump entity
    - choose "Architectural: Round Corners Bump" from the top of the maps list
    - adjust the radius (no clue what the other settings are good for)

    DONE!




    I guess the most of you already unlocked that, just wanted to finaly contribute something to Polycount too ;)

    Has anyone tried unlocking this in Max 2015? I can't seem to make it show up.
  • Millenia
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    Millenia polycount sponsor
    Has anyone tried unlocking this in Max 2015? I can't seem to make it show up.

    The shader is now located in:

    3ds Max 2015\NVIDIA\shaders_standard\mentalray\include

    You can still do this in 2015 but you do need to set the renderer to Mental Ray before it shows up.
  • Polynaught
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    Polynaught polycounter lvl 11
    So in Maya this is working quite decently. But there are cases when mia_roundcorners does not create acceptable solutions.
    Take for example two convex neighbouring faces - if their angle exceeds 90° degree there won't be any satisfying normal modifications. Instead you'll get the shading of the underlying low poly geometry.

    Has anyone figured out if it is possible to increase the angle tolerance of the mia_roundcorners node? Increasing the radius does not solve this problem.
  • uk_resistant
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    uk_resistant polycounter lvl 17
    Polynaught wrote: »
    So in Maya this is working quite decently. But there are cases when mia_roundcorners does not create acceptable solutions.
    Take for example two convex neighbouring faces - if their angle exceeds 90° degree there won't be any satisfying normal modifications. Instead you'll get the shading of the underlying low poly geometry.

    Has anyone figured out if it is possible to increase the angle tolerance of the mia_roundcorners node? Increasing the radius does not solve this problem.



    How did you solve the Render to texture/baking issues? I havent seen a good solution yet and i really would like to!
  • Polynaught
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    Polynaught polycounter lvl 11
    How did you solve the Render to texture/baking issues? I havent seen a good solution yet and i really would like to!

    You can mitigate the artifacts/issues by cranking up the resolution (x and y) and the number of samples. You just have to know that you can insert way higher numbers than the sliders offer you.

    Sent it through xNormal to convert from world space normal to tanget space normal and shrink the image at the very last step to your desired final resolution.
    This works very well for us.

    Edit: is there something similar to mia_roundcorners in Blender by the way?
  • jogshy
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    jogshy polycounter lvl 17
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    jogshy wrote: »
    Interesting :)

    not on april 1st man!
  • Polynaught
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    Polynaught polycounter lvl 11
    he might be serious *crosses fingers*
  • uk_resistant
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    uk_resistant polycounter lvl 17
    Polynaught wrote: »
    You can mitigate the artifacts/issues by cranking up the resolution (x and y) and the number of samples. You just have to know that you can insert way higher numbers than the sliders offer you.

    Sent it through xNormal to convert from world space normal to tanget space normal and shrink the image at the very last step to your desired final resolution.
    This works very well for us.

    Edit: is there something similar to mia_roundcorners in Blender by the way?

    No I mean how did you even bake it in Maya in the first place? When I try to render to texture no normal detail gets baked.
  • Polynaught
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    Polynaught polycounter lvl 11
    I'm not sure why you aren't getting any normal information in your bakes.
    Are you using the following method to bake your texture (see attached gif)?

    maya_mia_roundcorners_to_texture.gif


    edit: attachments seem to be somewhat broken... just click the link
  • Florent_Vilbert
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    Florent_Vilbert polycounter lvl 4
    Finally succeeded to bake the mia_round_corner effect into normal map :)

    As you can see there are 2 remaining problems:

    1435234647-baked-mia-round-corner.jpg

    1/ minor artifacts on the cap edge of the cylinder which I can't solve...Edge padding that I need to change maybe ?

    2/ As Polynaught stated :

    "Take for example two convex neighbouring faces - if their angle exceeds 90° degree there won't be any satisfying normal modifications. Instead you'll get the shading of the underlying low poly geometry.

    Has anyone figured out if it is possible to increase the angle tolerance of the mia_roundcorners node? Increasing the radius does not solve this problem."


    I thinks it's the problem as we see the round edge normal fading out on the picture.

    What do you think ? Has anyone solved that issue ?

    Cheers
  • SwdPwnzDggr
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    SwdPwnzDggr polycounter lvl 7
    Finally succeeded to bake the mia_round_corner effect into normal map :)

    As you can see there are 2 remaining problems:

    1435234647-baked-mia-round-corner.jpg

    1/ minor artifacts on the cap edge of the cylinder which I can't solve...Edge padding that I need to change maybe ?

    2/ As Polynaught stated :

    "Take for example two convex neighbouring faces - if their angle exceeds 90° degree there won't be any satisfying normal modifications. Instead you'll get the shading of the underlying low poly geometry.

    Has anyone figured out if it is possible to increase the angle tolerance of the mia_roundcorners node? Increasing the radius does not solve this problem."


    I thinks it's the problem as we see the round edge normal fading out on the picture.

    What do you think ? Has anyone solved that issue ?

    Cheers

    How did you get it to work? Tried months back but couldn't get anything.
  • Psychotic_Mike
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    Psychotic_Mike polycounter lvl 11
    I got this to work for me as well, I just needed to add lights in my scene :D 
    However I experience the same issue as above. 
    Also does not seem to work everywhere in some instances where I made a subtraction boolean, the cut out area is not affected by the shader at all!


  • Rooster128
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    Rooster128 polycounter lvl 8
    id alsol be very interested to know how you got mia_round_corner to bake in maya!
  • Urch1nator
    Add me to the list of folks here wondering how to render normal information from a mental ray material using Maya??
    WHAT SORCERY IS THIS!!!
    Is there a process outlined somewhere that doesn't list the baking portion as "step 3 bake your maps!" :)
  • Tectonic
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    Tectonic polycounter lvl 10
    I'm VERY interested in this. I've been watching the way Tor models and would love to use the same workflow but unfortunately I'm working in Maya. Recently I've been using the zbrush dynamesh+polish technique, but the feature maya has for creating bevels on intersecting geometry would be so useful for retopo after.
  • smbell
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    smbell null
    Tectonic said:
    I'm VERY interested in this. I've been watching the way Tor models and would love to use the same workflow but unfortunately I'm working in Maya. Recently I've been using the zbrush dynamesh+polish technique, but the feature maya has for creating bevels on intersecting geometry would be so useful for retopo after.
    This works well

    http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2547249/#Comment_2547249
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