I unwrapped the bolters and did a normal map test of them. They have 512 to themselves at the moment, final res will probably be lower. time will tell once i get the rest unwrapped and tested.
Spending lots of time modding the highres to better fit the workflow.
These are rendered using the 3Point shader in quality mode
Apologies about the JPEG Compression.
Feck it, My Macbook pro died today . had to strip the HDD out and get everything onto my desktop.
Work goes well. Everything is unwrapped and packed onto a 2k tile. was worried about having enough res but a bit of mirroring seems to have got me where i want to be. Obviously the tracks are yet to be done, as are a few other minor details. I've been finding it pretty usefull to use the odd smoothing group with the 3Point shader. That normally only where i've modeled in a nasty fan tho. My final polycount got to 20k which I'm pretty worried about. I'll post some wires on my next update, I dont fell like i've wasted any polys, infact if feel everything makes a good contribution to either the shape or allowing mirroring.
I dunno.. any opinions on this?
How much would you budget for an asset like this. I think 2k is reasonable but the polycount.....:poly122:
20k does seem reasonable.. considering what is used on main characters these days for games.... You for sure have kept the main shape in tact very nicely. Plus this being such a large vehicle as is, i don't see why 20k would be pretty common. But yeah, wires would be great to see.
Also, sorry to hear about your computer.... that sucks. :poly122:
I agree 20k is a reasonable polycount these days, most next gen real time renderers can handle alot of polygons (possibly more then you would need:P) its the texture size and advanced material/lighting effects that really cause the significant slowdowns.
That said I think its optimised pretty much as good as it could be maybe you could loose a few tri's in the area's I circled as red in the following screeny but it would save you 500-800 tri's at best.
The hatches seem to have alot of quads, its hard to see the detail in the normal map/geometry there so I think you can get away with fewer definition. Also the skull could be baked in (the detail around the skull is baked to so it would look more uniform in my opinion).
Next to that I have a question:), how do you get that bevelled (beveled??:P) edge look from your normal bake? I don't get that effect when I bake out my normals most of the time. Maybe its the way you light your renders??
Thanks for your comments guys. Ill have a chip at cutting out some of the marked polys. see how they bake
So far as the bevelled look goes:
I thinks its primarily because i bake with only 1 smoothing group. the normals are averaged so your the ray casts don't miss the edges of the model like they would when you use smoothing groups
. keep in mind this is using the 3point Quality normal shader which allows this workflow.
40k! Looks great! Would have to agree that you could optimize some things, mainly the cylindrical forms, but it seems to be a conscious choice to make them really round and since it is a personal project, I wouldn't make the extra effort. Make peace with the model and go on
Yeah, I hate the way normal maps look when they glance off the edge of rough cylinders. it looks crap. Its a weakness i have
I did a bit of experamenting with shape based wear maps. as described by Neil Blevins
my results are a bit coarse so far but its looks interesting enough to use as a base. Its extemely quick to create as well. which is nice
I've recently been looking into Warhammer and just saw this unit on the Games Workshop sight, This model is spot on! Good job, can't wait to see it fully textured!
Also, you bake with only one smoothing group, all soft edges? How do you pull that off? Ive tried baking hardsurface objects like this with soft edges and have so far almost always get strange shading errors with edges 90degree or more, how do you work around that? I see you have some beveled edges, which helps, but not all of them are. ha,o r do I suck?
I've recently been looking into Warhammer and just saw this unit on the Games Workshop sight, This model is spot on! Good job, can't wait to see it fully textured!
Also, you bake with only one smoothing group, all soft edges? How do you pull that off? Ive tried baking hardsurface objects like this with soft edges and have so far almost always get strange shading errors with edges 90degree or more, how do you work around that? I see you have some beveled edges, which helps, but not all of them are. ha,o r do I suck?
I think he baked his normal map with Max's RTT then used 3point shader.
ENDOMI: This isnt my area of expertise. Its more like I have the benefit of an awesome new tool . The 3Point Modifier / Shader do an awesome job of syncing Max's RTT with the viewport. They mentioned they are assisting some studios in implementing this in their engines.
Im speculating here but since they have a working relationship with Epic/Bioware perhaps some of their engines will soon utilise this. BIG FINGERS CROSSED to seeing this in UDK and Eclipse. who knows tho, there are so many variables .
This workflow allready works in maya so far as people have said. A maya user could better comment but from what people are posting the viewport in maya uses the same TB as the renderer so the display results are spotless. its external engines that are the issue. For the time being this model would look like boiled poop in UDK.
Im a huge fan of the 40k universe and maybe a bigger fan of this thread. the lowpoly looks amazing, cant wait to see some colors on there. are you making this for some kid of game?
Ahhh, i c, thanks for the quick explanation:) Now get back to modeling!
Also, I started a tabletop games thread in general discussion, and have decided to give Warhammer 40k a try after many recommendations. Im going to be making the BIG purchase tomorrow. Im so damn excited, and this thread doesn't help:)
sorry about the images guys. I didnt think I'd get so many hits. Photobucket have cut me off :poly142:
Heres where i am at the moment, I've done a quick lightmap and started painting in mudbox/photoshop. For the moment its a ultra marines landraider, its all layered tho so changing any of the dominant colours is pretty much a trivial thing. I like the blue though
Keep in mind some areas like the guns are still unpainted. the grime layer is also just a solid brown layer with a layer mask. so theres room for sexing it up a little. I can be a little hamfisted with grunge and chipping so im trying to be a little more subtle on this one.
You picked the Smurfs? Reeally? Ugh, I'm so disappointed.
I think it looks good so far, it sort of looks like the TF2 style of texturing though. By the way, were you happy with the results you got from that worn edges tutorial you found?
Endomi: Ill en-devour not to fuck it up too much maybe just a little.
Mop: Cheers
doeseph: Ill do a pink version just for you if you like
TF2 style, You think?, I havent looked at their flats. Its unlit at the moment which may be whats making it look like that. The dust map and AO do make it look a little that way. Once its in max and being shaded the difference is apparent.
So far as the chipping goes your looking at it, I had to tone it down a little as it was pretty strong but it makes a great base to paint off of. I loaded it as a layer mask on the blue paint. best bet is give it a try, its very depenedent on the mesh you are working with.
I think it'll be easier to read it once you've done a bit more texturing on it. My 2 cents... a model like this deserves a texture job with some grit to it, some realism and less cartoon. I think it needs to scream 'BEEN THRU THE SHIT' if a tank were to scream such things.
With regards to the 'it looks cartoony' thing. Im just working on diffuse colour at the moment. I didnt want to post a flat looking model so i comped in a light map.
Amadreus: I'm trying to avoid going down that route, I want it to look styleised rough like the models but not like its been in a blender . needless to say it will be more defined when its being lit.
just chiming in the say wow this is coming along nicely. Also, I had no idea you could do what you did with baking out the damage like that. Very cool. Awesome portfolio piece. Makes me want to do something 40k!
Have I mentioned I love watching you progress on this yet? Great stuff so far, I'm looking forward to seeing you continue on. Maybe this site could give you some more ideas for what you can do with the texture- I love everyone's different take on painting their models http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/tag/125-Land%20Raider.html
excellent link! I saw that site but not the gallery. Any pointers on decal placement? I'm not too hot on the subject.
I actually reada few physical model painting tutorials before starting on this. some interesting stuff indeed.
Awesome work man. One thing though, there's something about it that makes it look a bit boring. Maybe it's the lighting or the blue paint which is a bit desaturated and monochromatic. Maybe you could add a shade of purple on the spec map. I dunno, that's just for me. ^^
Ok I've been tuning the Paint and base metal material spec and gloss. Also added some more details into the diffuse (lights). Im still planning on adding some more white areas and more decals.
The texture has certainly improved, and I expect it will continue to do so as you progress, but I have to tell you that something feels missing. I can't quite put my finger on it.
My knee jerk reaction is that it's because there is no grime, but I think that's just the 40k nerd in me (and I know you want to avoid grime). It could be that the blue is a bit on the dark side, leaning a bit more toward navy blue rather than ultramarine (but that could also be your lights/render). Hell it might even be that there is too much white, or that it's too pronounced, or that I expect white to usually be more shiny than it is... It could also be that it's not really reading as metal right now because of the specular, more a synthetic composite material.
Shit dude, I don't know, I might just be nit picking. If I figure it out I'll let ya know.
@Bitmap, OrganizedChaos, Dejawolf
Cheers lads, glad your digging it.
@Doseph:
Christ man, don't worry about nit picking! I Wouldn't have joined PC if it wasn't for the honest critique people give here. You seem to know Warhammer so go for it (i've only played multiplayer dawn of war now and then with my mates)
To address some things you've mentioned, I agree if feels like it needs something. I found the ultramarine was lacking punch so i darkened it a bit. I'd love to model some of those awesome ultramarine logos but i feel like im a bit too far down the road to start trying to squeeze new islands into my uv map. Would you know what decals would be appropriate? there are some awesome ones floating about but i dont want to incite a nerd rage and use the wrong ones , any suggestions there would be very welcom
So far as using a colour spec goes I tried that and I didn't like it, I don't really want the panels to look like coloured metal. They're painted afterall and paint has a different reflective characteristic to metal. I will however look at the diffuse colour again and see how it looks closer to ultramarine. also i was planning on metalized the lascannons, i think all blue is too boring.
with the paint, you may want to try desaturating the paint colors some near the edges/seams some to give a little more weight and form to them. There is some in the miniature images above. It'd help break up the colors some! Could add some slight variation/paint bump to the surface as well to break it up a little more!
Johny6 Thanks dude! am working on some of those emblems now. found a slightly more elaborate one for a side door. I can break it down and copy it about tho
moose: will definitely give that a look. I was also thinking of dilating my masks for the paint layer and creating an unndercoat fringe like on the above pic.
I was thinking where it's driving over rough terrain constantly, the front would take massive amounts of paint damage compared to the back or parts not facing the front.
I would mud/damage up the front more to give it a little history.
I agree with adding a base coat/primer to the paint for the chipping. Are you planning to bump map the paint to give it a bit more edge? Also, nice Ultra symbol, looking good:)
Replies
Ever thought of doing a spacewolfversion of the raider?
doeseph: welcome.
I unwrapped the bolters and did a normal map test of them. They have 512 to themselves at the moment, final res will probably be lower. time will tell once i get the rest unwrapped and tested.
Spending lots of time modding the highres to better fit the workflow.
These are rendered using the 3Point shader in quality mode
Apologies about the JPEG Compression.
Space wolves tanks from GWs homepage
Space wolves dreadnaught
Just the same as other landraiders, just with more viking/wolf/rune/wolfpelt decorations.
The turret looks great btw.
Work goes well. Everything is unwrapped and packed onto a 2k tile. was worried about having enough res but a bit of mirroring seems to have got me where i want to be. Obviously the tracks are yet to be done, as are a few other minor details. I've been finding it pretty usefull to use the odd smoothing group with the 3Point shader. That normally only where i've modeled in a nasty fan tho. My final polycount got to 20k which I'm pretty worried about. I'll post some wires on my next update, I dont fell like i've wasted any polys, infact if feel everything makes a good contribution to either the shape or allowing mirroring.
I dunno.. any opinions on this?
How much would you budget for an asset like this. I think 2k is reasonable but the polycount.....:poly122:
Also, sorry to hear about your computer.... that sucks. :poly122:
going to optimise the tracks and see what the best way of doing them is. im thinking a scrollable texture.
That said I think its optimised pretty much as good as it could be maybe you could loose a few tri's in the area's I circled as red in the following screeny but it would save you 500-800 tri's at best.
The hatches seem to have alot of quads, its hard to see the detail in the normal map/geometry there so I think you can get away with fewer definition. Also the skull could be baked in (the detail around the skull is baked to so it would look more uniform in my opinion).
Next to that I have a question:), how do you get that bevelled (beveled??:P) edge look from your normal bake? I don't get that effect when I bake out my normals most of the time. Maybe its the way you light your renders??
So far as the bevelled look goes:
I thinks its primarily because i bake with only 1 smoothing group. the normals are averaged so your the ray casts don't miss the edges of the model like they would when you use smoothing groups
. keep in mind this is using the 3point Quality normal shader which allows this workflow.
I did a bit of experamenting with shape based wear maps. as described by Neil Blevins
my results are a bit coarse so far but its looks interesting enough to use as a base. Its extemely quick to create as well. which is nice
Also, you bake with only one smoothing group, all soft edges? How do you pull that off? Ive tried baking hardsurface objects like this with soft edges and have so far almost always get strange shading errors with edges 90degree or more, how do you work around that? I see you have some beveled edges, which helps, but not all of them are. ha,o r do I suck?
I think he baked his normal map with Max's RTT then used 3point shader.
Im speculating here but since they have a working relationship with Epic/Bioware perhaps some of their engines will soon utilise this. BIG FINGERS CROSSED to seeing this in UDK and Eclipse. who knows tho, there are so many variables
This workflow allready works in maya so far as people have said. A maya user could better comment but from what people are posting the viewport in maya uses the same TB as the renderer so the display results are spotless. its external engines that are the issue. For the time being this model would look like boiled poop in UDK.
I'm loving every new image with a passion!
Also, I started a tabletop games thread in general discussion, and have decided to give Warhammer 40k a try after many recommendations. Im going to be making the BIG purchase tomorrow. Im so damn excited, and this thread doesn't help:)
Heres where i am at the moment, I've done a quick lightmap and started painting in mudbox/photoshop. For the moment its a ultra marines landraider, its all layered tho so changing any of the dominant colours is pretty much a trivial thing. I like the blue though
Keep in mind some areas like the guns are still unpainted. the grime layer is also just a solid brown layer with a layer mask. so theres room for sexing it up a little. I can be a little hamfisted with grunge and chipping so im trying to be a little more subtle on this one.
CRITIQUE ME!!!
I think it looks good so far, it sort of looks like the TF2 style of texturing though. By the way, were you happy with the results you got from that worn edges tutorial you found?
Mop: Cheers
doeseph: Ill do a pink version just for you if you like
TF2 style, You think?, I havent looked at their flats. Its unlit at the moment which may be whats making it look like that. The dust map and AO do make it look a little that way. Once its in max and being shaded the difference is apparent.
So far as the chipping goes your looking at it, I had to tone it down a little as it was pretty strong but it makes a great base to paint off of. I loaded it as a layer mask on the blue paint. best bet is give it a try, its very depenedent on the mesh you are working with.
Amadreus: I'm trying to avoid going down that route, I want it to look styleised rough like the models but not like its been in a blender
3Point I love you!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/tag/125-Land%20Raider.html
I actually reada few physical model painting tutorials before starting on this. some interesting stuff indeed.
classy
Oppinions on the paint would be appreciated
My knee jerk reaction is that it's because there is no grime, but I think that's just the 40k nerd in me (and I know you want to avoid grime). It could be that the blue is a bit on the dark side, leaning a bit more toward navy blue rather than ultramarine (but that could also be your lights/render). Hell it might even be that there is too much white, or that it's too pronounced, or that I expect white to usually be more shiny than it is... It could also be that it's not really reading as metal right now because of the specular, more a synthetic composite material.
Shit dude, I don't know, I might just be nit picking. If I figure it out I'll let ya know.
Cheers lads, glad your digging it.
@Doseph:
Christ man, don't worry about nit picking! I Wouldn't have joined PC if it wasn't for the honest critique people give here. You seem to know Warhammer so go for it (i've only played multiplayer dawn of war now and then with my mates)
To address some things you've mentioned, I agree if feels like it needs something. I found the ultramarine was lacking punch so i darkened it a bit. I'd love to model some of those awesome ultramarine logos but i feel like im a bit too far down the road to start trying to squeeze new islands into my uv map. Would you know what decals would be appropriate? there are some awesome ones floating about but i dont want to incite a nerd rage and use the wrong ones
So far as using a colour spec goes I tried that and I didn't like it, I don't really want the panels to look like coloured metal. They're painted afterall and paint has a different reflective characteristic to metal. I will however look at the diffuse colour again and see how it looks closer to ultramarine. also i was planning on metalized the lascannons, i think all blue is too boring.
Can't go wrong with a few purity seals scattered here and there, a few of these wouldn't go amiss - and wouldn't take much UV space.
Stuff like the traditional skulls/tally markings etc to show kills is also good, unit numbers, that kinda stuff.
For example :
with the paint, you may want to try desaturating the paint colors some near the edges/seams some to give a little more weight and form to them. There is some in the miniature images above. It'd help break up the colors some! Could add some slight variation/paint bump to the surface as well to break it up a little more!
looks hot!
moose: will definitely give that a look. I was also thinking of dilating my masks for the paint layer and creating an unndercoat fringe like on the above pic.
I would mud/damage up the front more to give it a little history.
Cool work