Hey guys, I'm working on a terrorist for my job and I am sculpting him in Zbrush! This is WIP and next thing on the list is the beard! Let me know what you think. Any tips/crits would be appreciated.
He does look sad, and quite old at some parts of his face. I think the jaw might be too defined especially near the ear. I also feel like I want to give the nose a slight curve, I believe that nose needs some work as well, can't quite put my finger on it though.
Other than that you got a good start, and it'll be interesting as to where you'll take this
Thanks guys! I tried to take your advise on him and "fixed" up the face a little bit. Got a lot of feedback on this one so thanks a lot!
Vig: Yes i made a ref folder with a bunch of pics but I'm still learning how to sculpt what i see. For the most part I am new to Zbrush i feel like this is the first time i have really turned something good out using it.
Keizza: Better?
Pliang: I started with a box and used the clay brush to round it out as i got more detailed with it. and yes i would like to add more detail. I want to make him look normal before i mess him up. I would really like to get small detail such as wrinkles and scars before i call him done.
rawkstar: I didn't mean to make anything controversial... i am making a terrorist for my job and i wanted critiques and advise so i could get better and grow as an artist. I've posted several times and got nothing in the way of help so i figured a dynamic name is what draws people to check out the post. That's why i click on stuff when i look through the forums. Usually a cool/interesting name attracts me. I appreciate all the help i've gotten on this and if i am to be shamed for seeking help then so be it.
Jackablade: He is supposed to be of middle eastern decent. Look back to my response to Vig it applies here too lol
Project update:
I did his beard today and tried to follow some advice i got on it on his face and whatnot. Here's what i've got!
Hey Clintus, I like the progress so far man, this could go so many ways!
Are you looking to do a muslim terrorist? If Muslim, I would love to see one of those iconic bushy jawline beards that seem to be a growing trend these days (pun intended)
Attempted to touch him up a bit... Im really trying to make the beard look real, but it's tough... i am looking for any help anybody can give me on this because when it comes to making hair in Zbrush my skills are limited.
Ahh man... I sounded like a dick when I was asking if you used ref. I just wanted to see the thing you where working off of to compare, I wasn't implying that you needed ref.
As for the beard. It really depends on what you've got planned. Part of the problem you're running into is that its two separate objects making it hard to blend the line between the two.
The issue would be that is a solid block of hair which will always look a little off in the silhouette. If this is going to be for low poly/games you can shell the beard and put an opacity map on the shell which will help break up the silhouette. Same trick I used on these hedges (gets used all over the place I'm not the pioneer of the idea).
Haha its cool Vig, i didnt think you sounded like a dick at all. I should've made that connection that you wanted to see the ref.
That's pretty much what im planning on doing (what you did with the hedges) I really want this to look as realistic as possible. It doesn't have to be low poly, but i can't get extreme either and i really want it to feel like a real beard. Im no expert with Zbrush yet, so if anybody has any tips or cool brushes/alphas that would help i'd be grateful.
Looking great as a model.
I'm not getting terrorist though. The basic shape of the beard actually kinda gives me pirate/viking. In my opinion it needs to be more haggard. Same thing goes for the face.
If its a sleeper, disregard this, but if he's from any middle eastern country his face should be more weathered. Also he appears very well fed, which I doubt he would be.
Ps, in your first post without the beard he looked like the guy from the mummy
great start you got here. You have some good cloth wrinkles in the arms of the thawb ( what you called his man-dress ) but it looks a lil-rough at the bottom.
I don't know if you have a base mesh underneath his clothing but If you dont, then I think it would really help with his body forms. Most of these long garments you see are of light-weight materials (not all of course) and you can see the contours of the body underneath the fabric. It will also help with proportions and creating any other accessories
Personally I would hope to see him deck out in different attire that would make the character stand out artistically and culturally.
what you got going here is the standard American video-Game-fox news image of a terrorist: generic Muslim male.
anyways that's my two cents. good sculpting. keep it up.
Nomad: I'd like to go back and mess his face up some if i get a chance too but i spent a long time on it and need to move on unfortunately. Soma goes for the beard. Im new to hair in Zbrush so if you have any tips on how to make good looking messy (oxy-moron) hair i'd love a link lol.
Mike: Thanks! I Have a lot of reference for this kind of clothing and im having a hard time selling it in the body... I do have a base mesh that i created this from. I know you cant see it from the front but his arms are bent thats why they look a little stubby. And i really wish i could use a lot more creative freedom for him like you said but this is for work and so generic fox news terrorist is exactly what my boss wants you know?
Canadian Ink: Same thing goes with you man, this isn't supposed to come across racist. I have been given a project that i have to do no matter what and need crits on my art rather than the idea behind it, because it's not my call, and im going to make the best damn "terrorist" i can.
In terms of the technical aspects, I think you need to pay closer attention to the forms not the details. For the dress and the face it looks like you've skipped ahead a few levels and got into doing the details before really nailing down the proportions at the lower sub division levels. go down to the first sub level again and really nail the silhouette before moving along, I think that will help lots
Perhaps.... maybe... compared to most threads, there isn't actually that much "art" in this thread of yet... IMHO. Clothes and sculpt look technically very good... Am also agreeing with the Abu Hamza reference... I'd say make a "really game art twisted" terrorist... add style... bit of something.
Canadian Ink: Same thing goes with you man, this isn't supposed to come across racist. I have been given a project that I have to do no matter what and need crits on my art rather than the idea behind it, because it's not my call, and I'm going to make the best damn "terrorist" I can.
No... he wasn't calling you racist.... he was wondering why you modelling an arab farmer!!
Mumbai in India ... using guns now... which is much scarier i think....they had bags of assault rifles, ammo... extraploate on that and you would be slick. YOU COULD'VE GONE THAT ROUTE but oh no... you just went with the stereotype, so low grade for your research.
Eh? :poly124: It is YOUR call.. this is a democracy we fight for... i vote for you to use the inner artist in you and make it more special please, with cherry on top.
Every nation has terrorists
Your clothes look good tho... i will give you that.
Every nation has terrorists, but from the 1980s-20nn the most prolific and significant terrorist organizations in the world have been predonimately arab. Shut up, guys.
Clintus, just keep working on it. And post some images of the body/head together so you can get better crits! You're modelling a character, not a disassembled toy!
something that may help with the facial hair issue, use a plane 3d and divide it to several million. sculpt out a clump of hair and with perspective off tap "f" to fit it. go to alpha>grabdoc. this should make an alpha of your clump of hair, so that using the standard brush with the drag rect brush setting and the new alpha you can just scale up clumps of hair to make it bushy without having to sculpt all the details individually.
Okay lets not turn my post into a political debate please guys.
EricV: Will do man, you're totally right. I cranked up the SubD and went nuts i didn't work low to high like you suggested i'll play with that some.
Willbur: Thank you for the compliment. While you have a valid point i have already stated that this is the kind of character my boss has requested i make. I have made a few others that have been in different styles. Some more military with bulletproof vests and whatnot, some more civilian. We need a wide variety. This is the type of character i have be assigned to, so please no more debates on making him more "artistic". I have a concept that i must go off of, i can't change it. As for the beard people are constantly telling me to mess it up and i keep repeating that i don't know how, so any tutorial links would be helpful. I've been playing with it and this is the best thing i've been able to come up with thus far. I need to move on at this point because i can't spend any more time experimenting with it. If there is a technique you know that you can share with me then, yes, i would love to implement it.
Sup: Thank you!! Somebody is finally on my side haha. Sorry, i've been building him in pieces. Complete model with all subtools in soon to come.
Woogity: THANK YOU!!! That's EXACTLY what i've been looking for. You are the first to actually give me advice on HOW to do something or achieve an effect. I will try that and i love you lol.
Unfortunately I cant help you with a good sculpting tutorial for hair.
So far I've never really seen sculpted hair done well, however I'm an environment guy and look mostly at environment threads.
there is a tutorial on UDN... unreal developer network ... or there used to be on how Epic Games does hair
Am thinking for a start... sculpt more clumps into the hair... get it more uneven... then...
Epic's way... if i remember from a year since i saw it... was to have various "swatches/cuts of hair" with alpha maps on planes... and have them coming out of the model at stregic places...
Hey guys, so i tried to make a few quick changes but my boss is riding me to get this guy done. I've started the retopolgy process so any crits you have aren't able to be implemented but i would like to hear what you think so i can use it in the next project and to let me know if the changes i made are for the better. Thanks for the help and input! and especially thanks to those of you who linked stuff.
that robe is has wayy to little width, the dresses / gowns whatever u want to call them are generally much more free flowing, it even looks close to skin tight on his chest
Post crits and helpful criticism or get out of the thread.
oh my, am not even gonna try make you see the irony.
Looks like his middle is too thin to me. I dunno... he looks like a market stall owner, but then again... they are shady. Looking nice... is good to see it together. Good luck.
Why isn't the cloth hanging off his forearm / wrists? Robes are way too skin tight u could have changed that in like 5min. The mofo also has the flattest shoes i've ever seen for a second from the side i thought it was sandles with no feet.
Every arabian guy is right by getting offended by this stuff here. This cheers all stereotypes about arab people created by the media. A terrorist is more than some random man looking arab. Those are some religious or political driven persons, not some guy with a beard in a robe. Give him some glasses and he's a rapist or what?
Sorry, but this is some really offending stuff and I would understand everyone getting pissed by that.
And lol, you had to be an US citizen... lol...
Terrorist do come in different forms but if the employer wants an Arabic terrorist he is not going to create something different just because they do not want to offend someone. He does want to get paid after all.
I am confused, where is his kevlar vest. where does he keep his equipment and ammo? Does he fight with his fists? is he a militant or just a pissed off dude.
I think it is detrimental to your character that he is based off of a vague stereotype because the design does not make sense. Your design needs to be more specific. This character does not scream TERRORIST to me, it just looks like an ordinary guy walking down the street.
I would say if you are assigned another terrorist character that before you start modeling, do a lot of research. Since this is a topic you are not very knowledgeable about, its always best to find many many references so that your characters' design is believable. When designing a character you must know what elements you are working with and mixing, all of the reference materials are like ingredients and your character is the recipe.
pakistani man (looks more afghan thugh):
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PAULHO%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png[/IMG]
i think most qualms about this characters design and possibly the offensive feelings that most people express are because not enough research was done for the design process of this project. Good luck though on all future projects.
I think the best solution for future projects (well, realistic projects anyways) that you build a reference sheet with at least ten photographs of elements you want to incorporate into your character. If you draw from these sources it will give your character a firm rooting in reality and will make the character seem more believable.
:poly127: Okay enough about the design already. I've explained the situation several times.
Raider i have his hands slightly incorrectly positioned in this image, thank you for catching that. If he gets rigged to hold a gun i want the cloth to hand downward off his wrist.
Thank you Snake85027 you are absolutely right.
Paulewog, while that is great advise, that is exactly what i did. You actually have several pics that i already have in my reference folder for later use.
This guy is not a combatant necessarily but can easily become one. We are creating a scenario in a middle eastern setting and there will be civilians and terrorists alike. While this man is not specifically a terrorist in his image and dress, i have created and will create single props, such as a vest, ammo packs, alternate clothing, and weapons, that can all be swapped out for other parts on the character to make multiple characters out of the same model. Similar to how Unreal has interchangeable body parts for their characters. This guy is technically not going to suicide bomb anybody so everybody just calm down already. Jeez. For organization sake we label these models terrorist_01, terrorist_02 etc. so i just call this guy a terrorist out of habit. Sorry if i offended anybody that was not my intention but please if you have anything to say only helpful criticism from this point on because I'm sick of reading how politically incorrect this model is and having next to no artistic feedback.
Replies
He looks sad, almost sorry he's going to blow up a day care or kill foreign aid workers.
Have any ref you're using?
Other than that you got a good start, and it'll be interesting as to where you'll take this
not to be the hippy chick charging up my fav electro douche, but..
... oh put it away tree hugger this is democracy we fight for.
Any physical details you plan to sculpt onto him to hint what he does? Right now he looks like any other sad person you'd encounter on the streets.
Vig: Yes i made a ref folder with a bunch of pics but I'm still learning how to sculpt what i see. For the most part I am new to Zbrush i feel like this is the first time i have really turned something good out using it.
Keizza: Better?
Pliang: I started with a box and used the clay brush to round it out as i got more detailed with it. and yes i would like to add more detail. I want to make him look normal before i mess him up. I would really like to get small detail such as wrinkles and scars before i call him done.
rawkstar: I didn't mean to make anything controversial... i am making a terrorist for my job and i wanted critiques and advise so i could get better and grow as an artist. I've posted several times and got nothing in the way of help so i figured a dynamic name is what draws people to check out the post. That's why i click on stuff when i look through the forums. Usually a cool/interesting name attracts me. I appreciate all the help i've gotten on this and if i am to be shamed for seeking help then so be it.
Jackablade: He is supposed to be of middle eastern decent. Look back to my response to Vig it applies here too lol
Project update:
I did his beard today and tried to follow some advice i got on it on his face and whatnot. Here's what i've got!
The last image looks a bit more like a roman to me, with the round wel shaped beard and strong features. Looks cool though!
Are you looking to do a muslim terrorist? If Muslim, I would love to see one of those iconic bushy jawline beards that seem to be a growing trend these days (pun intended)
Better? Worse? Or just different?
As for the beard. It really depends on what you've got planned. Part of the problem you're running into is that its two separate objects making it hard to blend the line between the two.
The issue would be that is a solid block of hair which will always look a little off in the silhouette. If this is going to be for low poly/games you can shell the beard and put an opacity map on the shell which will help break up the silhouette. Same trick I used on these hedges (gets used all over the place I'm not the pioneer of the idea).
Almost! Almost, god damn it.
That's pretty much what im planning on doing (what you did with the hedges) I really want this to look as realistic as possible. It doesn't have to be low poly, but i can't get extreme either and i really want it to feel like a real beard. Im no expert with Zbrush yet, so if anybody has any tips or cool brushes/alphas that would help i'd be grateful.
This would be a GREAT idea.
Nice start on the terrorist so far.
heres what i think zuse would look like. lol
I'm not getting terrorist though. The basic shape of the beard actually kinda gives me pirate/viking. In my opinion it needs to be more haggard. Same thing goes for the face.
If its a sleeper, disregard this, but if he's from any middle eastern country his face should be more weathered. Also he appears very well fed, which I doubt he would be.
Ps, in your first post without the beard he looked like the guy from the mummy
Keep it up!
I don't know if you have a base mesh underneath his clothing but If you dont, then I think it would really help with his body forms. Most of these long garments you see are of light-weight materials (not all of course) and you can see the contours of the body underneath the fabric. It will also help with proportions and creating any other accessories
Personally I would hope to see him deck out in different attire that would make the character stand out artistically and culturally.
what you got going here is the standard American video-Game-fox news image of a terrorist: generic Muslim male.
anyways that's my two cents. good sculpting. keep it up.
Nomad: I'd like to go back and mess his face up some if i get a chance too but i spent a long time on it and need to move on unfortunately. Soma goes for the beard. Im new to hair in Zbrush so if you have any tips on how to make good looking messy (oxy-moron) hair i'd love a link lol.
Mike: Thanks! I Have a lot of reference for this kind of clothing and im having a hard time selling it in the body... I do have a base mesh that i created this from. I know you cant see it from the front but his arms are bent thats why they look a little stubby. And i really wish i could use a lot more creative freedom for him like you said but this is for work and so generic fox news terrorist is exactly what my boss wants you know?
Canadian Ink: Same thing goes with you man, this isn't supposed to come across racist. I have been given a project that i have to do no matter what and need crits on my art rather than the idea behind it, because it's not my call, and im going to make the best damn "terrorist" i can.
but I suppose an osama bin laden look alike is ok
In terms of the technical aspects, I think you need to pay closer attention to the forms not the details. For the dress and the face it looks like you've skipped ahead a few levels and got into doing the details before really nailing down the proportions at the lower sub division levels. go down to the first sub level again and really nail the silhouette before moving along, I think that will help lots
This is art, as you keep saying.
No... he wasn't calling you racist.... he was wondering why you modelling an arab farmer!!
Mumbai in India ... using guns now... which is much scarier i think....they had bags of assault rifles, ammo... extraploate on that and you would be slick. YOU COULD'VE GONE THAT ROUTE but oh no... you just went with the stereotype, so low grade for your research.
Eh? :poly124: It is YOUR call.. this is a democracy we fight for... i vote for you to use the inner artist in you and make it more special please, with cherry on top.
Every nation has terrorists
Your clothes look good tho... i will give you that.
And abu hamza is an inspirational face to draw ideas from ... just ideas.
Clintus, just keep working on it. And post some images of the body/head together so you can get better crits! You're modelling a character, not a disassembled toy!
hope it helps.
-Woog
EricV: Will do man, you're totally right. I cranked up the SubD and went nuts i didn't work low to high like you suggested i'll play with that some.
Willbur: Thank you for the compliment. While you have a valid point i have already stated that this is the kind of character my boss has requested i make. I have made a few others that have been in different styles. Some more military with bulletproof vests and whatnot, some more civilian. We need a wide variety. This is the type of character i have be assigned to, so please no more debates on making him more "artistic". I have a concept that i must go off of, i can't change it. As for the beard people are constantly telling me to mess it up and i keep repeating that i don't know how, so any tutorial links would be helpful. I've been playing with it and this is the best thing i've been able to come up with thus far. I need to move on at this point because i can't spend any more time experimenting with it. If there is a technique you know that you can share with me then, yes, i would love to implement it.
Sup: Thank you!! Somebody is finally on my side haha. Sorry, i've been building him in pieces. Complete model with all subtools in soon to come.
Woogity: THANK YOU!!! That's EXACTLY what i've been looking for. You are the first to actually give me advice on HOW to do something or achieve an effect. I will try that and i love you lol.
Unfortunately I cant help you with a good sculpting tutorial for hair.
So far I've never really seen sculpted hair done well, however I'm an environment guy and look mostly at environment threads.
I did find one tutorial on making 'messy' looking hair. Personally I'd recommend going that route unless you want to sim hair/fur in your 3d app.
http://www.paultosca.com/varga_hair.html#hairstyles
Cheers
Am thinking for a start... sculpt more clumps into the hair... get it more uneven... then...
Epic's way... if i remember from a year since i saw it... was to have various "swatches/cuts of hair" with alpha maps on planes... and have them coming out of the model at stregic places...
Is one way... i guess
see?
Looks like his middle is too thin to me. I dunno... he looks like a market stall owner, but then again... they are shady. Looking nice... is good to see it together. Good luck.
Low poly projection:
took the words right out of my mouth. it looks way too much like an interpretation of jesus.
Sorry, but this is some really offending stuff and I would understand everyone getting pissed by that.
And lol, you had to be an US citizen... lol...
And yeah, he looks like Jesus!
I think it is detrimental to your character that he is based off of a vague stereotype because the design does not make sense. Your design needs to be more specific. This character does not scream TERRORIST to me, it just looks like an ordinary guy walking down the street.
I would say if you are assigned another terrorist character that before you start modeling, do a lot of research. Since this is a topic you are not very knowledgeable about, its always best to find many many references so that your characters' design is believable. When designing a character you must know what elements you are working with and mixing, all of the reference materials are like ingredients and your character is the recipe.
nationality unknown:
iraqi police:
Pakistani/afghan border (waziristan) taliban militants:
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PAULHO%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]
saudi-arabian man:
pakistani man (looks more afghan thugh):
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PAULHO%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png[/IMG]
i think most qualms about this characters design and possibly the offensive feelings that most people express are because not enough research was done for the design process of this project. Good luck though on all future projects.
Raider i have his hands slightly incorrectly positioned in this image, thank you for catching that. If he gets rigged to hold a gun i want the cloth to hand downward off his wrist.
Thank you Snake85027 you are absolutely right.
Paulewog, while that is great advise, that is exactly what i did. You actually have several pics that i already have in my reference folder for later use.
This guy is not a combatant necessarily but can easily become one. We are creating a scenario in a middle eastern setting and there will be civilians and terrorists alike. While this man is not specifically a terrorist in his image and dress, i have created and will create single props, such as a vest, ammo packs, alternate clothing, and weapons, that can all be swapped out for other parts on the character to make multiple characters out of the same model. Similar to how Unreal has interchangeable body parts for their characters. This guy is technically not going to suicide bomb anybody so everybody just calm down already. Jeez. For organization sake we label these models terrorist_01, terrorist_02 etc. so i just call this guy a terrorist out of habit. Sorry if i offended anybody that was not my intention but please if you have anything to say only helpful criticism from this point on because I'm sick of reading how politically incorrect this model is and having next to no artistic feedback.