Overgrown Mine Wip

marq4porsche

I'm making an overgrown mine for my portfolio. I am making a futuristic mine inspired by Metroid Prime and Halo as well. I want to mix organic shapes with the hard shapes created by man. Right now I feel that this scene is really lacking visual interest and a real focal point. I also need to work on my storytelling elements as well.

I want to put this in engine as well. I will be using UDK for the first time and want to use this to learn the engine. I want to keep the scene generally small due to time constraints (it must be done in 5 weeks) but I am willing to expand in scale slightly.

I really am looking for some hard critiques for this as I focus on finding a real direction for this piece.

Scene



Layout


Textures

DarthNater

I'm going to hit the things that pop out at me straight away:

- Textures - You're textures are very bland and lack any sort of detail. You need to research hard surface texturing and see how to properly create metal textures. There seems to be no specular at all on anything. Add some color to objects too!

- Lighting - The scene lacks any sort of shadows, which is making it feel very flat. Add some colored lights and shadows to give the tunnel and scene as a whole some depth.

- Models - The models are also very flat and basic. They lack the detail that most sci-fi pieces have. I would also add some props in the piece like crates, barrels, guns, etc...

Here are some examples:

http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=70135&highlight=sci+fi - look at how much the lighting added to the depth of the scene.

http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=62114 - Can't talk about hard surface hi poly modeling without looking here :P

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=373024 - great texturing tut.

http://cg.tutsplus.com/tutorials/3d-art/how-to-hand-paint-convincing-metal-textures/ - another good texturing tut.

marq4porsche

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. I've actually been following 3dflashers piece as he's progressed. There is no lighting in this scene right now. Basically it just has an ambient light to create some mood. I want to focus on lighting this as soon as I get it in engine, so I'll focus on that later. I am really early in this scene right now and I know those things are lacking right now.
Besides the visual detail on the models themselves and the textures, what types of things could help the overall scene. What could really help me create the mood and give it a focal point as well.

DarthNater

Again, you're going to have a real hard time showing a mood without proper textures or lighting Adding the props will help too. You'd be surprised how much small props can add to a scene. Maybe even some more cave like plants, or vines coming down from the ceiling.

marq4porsche

Actually I am working on that now lol. I am going to have overgrown roots and plants. An idea I have is to have some of the roots breaking in from the vents that will be on the cieling. This mine is old and has been in disuse for a number of years but it is still functional. So I have to make everything worn and feel like they haven't been in use for a while. The computers and life preservation equiptment are still functional though, everything basically works. This is still real early in the process so it's very unfinished yet, I've only worked on it a few days so far and the concept itself is no way near being realised yet as well.

marq4porsche

I've been working on the roots and some plants for this scene and really trying to give it some visual interest. I'll be adding some variation to the plants and then going back to remodel the pillars and floor planks. Here it is without textures because I want to focus on the design and layout elements of the scene first. I like the idea that plant life has overtaken the technology. I want to push that but make it so that the machines are still functioning some as well.

marq4porsche

Just a small update on the roots and I did the lights as well.

marq4porsche

I really started work on the floor textures now so I could get them out of the way, crits would be awesome thanks!

snake85027

Do you have the specular painted in the diffuse map for that floor model?

marq4porsche

Actually, here are my textures for the floor panels so you can see. I tried to add a bit of grunge especially around the outside edges. Then I added some wear and tear along the edges of each panel.

Duffuse


Specular


Normal

Wells

your diffuse is very uniformly noisy read like a metal overlay with very little work done to it.

think of how the floor would get used - it would be much more worn in the center where all the traffic is. yes it could be scratched to hell, but the scratches would have been polished down by use. Personally, I'd leave the scratches and wear out of the normal map, unless you wanted some particularly deep scratches.

is this a stamped piece of metal, or is each panel created out of these strips that are then fitted together? currently, it looks like that pattern is stamped in. if that wasn't the goal, try mixing it up a bit. make some slightly darker, slightly lighter, more red, more green, etc.

the noise on the diffuse is too high contrast, instead of pocked metal, it's coming across like compression artifacts and brings down the resolution of the piece.

if this is overgrown, there should be water stains, dirt in the cracks and building up around the edges, lichen and moss growing over spots. the way these are made, with the high rim all around it, they would be impossible to clean even when in use.

marq4porsche

Thank you Sectaurs, I definitely agree about the wear and tear and the general grunge and grime level. Here's an update.

marq4porsche

And I've added some lights so I can see how it will eventually look.

AndyLittleton

Im sure everybody has a different work flow but I wouldn't worry about the critques about certain pieces.

The more efficient way to work is to work the whole level out as a whole, Get all the props in, strong sillouettes, good composition, decent lighting and decent textures

Floor looks good enough for me get the rest of the stuff in. Save the polish for last

cholden

I would be much more aggressive with the vegetation. Large area filling ferns, bigger shrooms full penetration of the vines into the scene, hanging vines and so on. Here's a quicky of what I mean.



I'd probably get even crazier than this with it all, and some atmosphere with light beams, dripping water cause I'm a wild man.

marq4porsche

So after talking to some instructors and getting their feedback I have changed my concept completely. I've reworked it into an arboretum and I tried to salvage some parts of my original concept. I needed to make it larger and I wanted to have a more open space, I also feel that the lighting could a better for a daytime scene and I am really inspired by an image I found. So here is my progress so far.

marq4porsche

Ok, I'm back on track after some time off and spring break! Sadly I didn't get much work done over break but oh well.
Thanks for the paintover cholden, I'm gonna add even more vines and leaves soon but I need to finish the base modeling and textures first.
I've made a few changes and I've done the sculpting for the cave itself. It has base textures on it now.

cholden

It looks like you went back to your original plan, and ditching the greenhouse looking room? If so, I'm glad.

Don't be afraid to get crazy with the vines and such, and if you're looking for more props to add, some warn out, vine covered machinery wouldn't be bad. The roots could open up some cracks with sun beams for more atmosphere.

marq4porsche

Yes, seriously I think I went stupid for a week. Spring break helped a lot, and I think I'm back on pace again. Thanks for the feedback!

marq4porsche

Hey guys, more progress. I worked on modeling the pillar and did a base pass on my textures. I also reworked some other things in the scene to give it a more unified feel. I gave the floor tiles a bit more of a purple hue and got rid of those railings. My next task is to model a computer terminal and work on the vents before I add any more vegetation.

marq4porsche

Further work on the pillars and a start on textures for the plants, what do you think? Are they matching the scene or what should I do otherwise? Also I'm having transparency sorting issues, both the ferns and mushrooms are on the same map to save textures but now the sorting is messed up, is there any way around that?

Ged

those big fan vent things will look cool when they are textured, Im not really digging those big square crate things they just dont seem to fit in to me

marq4porsche

Is it the textures or they don't fit overall?

SgtNasty

I like what you have so far. Solid idea. My one critique is your colour scheme. Right now you have green plants, grey-brown metals, with orange and blue lights. I have seen a lot of sci fi-ish scenes with really colourful lights and shiny metal and all that stuff, that are really good scenes, but could be made a lot better with some colour balance.

Right now there is nothing offensive about your lighting/colour choices, but it doesn't seem to have a direction either. I could be totally wrong here, but if you do want to make some adjustments, it would be as simple as hue changes on you diffuse maps or light colour adjustments.

marq4porsche

Thank you, My main color scheme is a blue contrasted with reds towards the far wall. The idea is to give the player an idea of where to go, kinda guide them forward, if this was a real environment. I agree I need to consolidate the color scheme though, especially with the plants. Hopefully this update works better, what do you think?

cholden

The vegetation before texturing had strong shapes. The texture's alpha is too strong. This makes the leaves/branches appear too thin, thus they are dithering out and turning to noise at a distance. You could easily take a look at some great example by downloading UDK or Crysis Sandbox to see how these should be handled, but essentially, you'll need to redo the texture with a lot less transparency.

I would add more lumpy stone shapes to the ceiling. Not stalactites. The large chunks of rock that would fall out after the giant tunnel carving machine cleared the original path.

The out-of-place appearance of the crates is them sharing the walkway material. It tricks the brain into thinking we should be walking on them or possibly that the 2nd shot you posted is looking down and they are a platform. Anyway, it's a crate. You can spend more than two seconds on it making it look nice.

Stains, everywhere.

marq4porsche

Thanks Cholden, I've remade my plant but I still have issues with transparency sorting in maya. The whole plant goes transparent in HQ mode, does anyone know a fix for that? Heres a pic of what I mean.

Default


Broken

SgtNasty

The new shots you posted look a bit better. The whole colour critique was more of just something to keep in mind for later, for now I would say just get the main modeling and texturing done. Once you get to that step though, I would turn the house lights down, and have more "pools" of light. As is now, the lighting looks flat, but you are still working on it, so ya, just read this later when you have more done.

One other thing I just noticed are the pillars. The way that the middle of your pillar meets with the base of the pillar (where the light part meets the dark part) looks a bit strange. To me it looks like you did the boolean thing in Maya, which is fine but I'm not sure if the pillars would look like that if they were real, if you get what I mean?

marq4porsche

Hi all, here's a new update. I've worked on the plants and got those to work and I also added a glow effect to them. I also got rid of the blood because it does not fit into the style of this scene.

Amarth93

add rust/vegetation on the crates as its an overgrown old mine

gsokol

This is steadily improving. I really like the concept.

Your lighting needs work. In this situation, you need to sit back and think for a second where lights would make sense. There are 2 things that catch my attention.

1: You have hanging lights that don't have actual lights.
2: Plants...need light to glow. This could go in a few different directions. First off, with the plants having a bio-luminescent glow, you could let them be and just say they are space plants...or whatever. Or you could make some lights that shine on the lights..maybe like fluorescent lamps that sit on the sidewalks and face the lights. Dunno, it could go either way, but its something to think about.

Keep going with it..I like it

Mark Dygert

Once you settle on the plant color you should work those colors into the rest of your textures. Since the plants seem to be putting off a lot of pollen it would be good to account for it falling and collecting over time. It will help unify the scene and tie everything together and it will also let the viewer know a little bit of the history.

A quick note about blood and its use as a story device.
You need to be part CSI guy when introducing stuff like blood to your environments.
This would need to be a fresh stain, blood doesn't stay bright red for long. It starts to separate within a few hours. You get a clear liquid (plasma?) and the red blood cells. If you check out crime scene photos (hopefully you have a stomach for the ref if you're putting it in your scene) you will notice most blood stains have a red part then past that extends a clear liquid that leaches out of the blood as it breaks down. Then it dries and turns brown-black. On some level everyone knows this even if they can't articulate it. Its a cue to whats been going on and how long ago it happened.

Also know that bright red blood is kind of a newbie hallmark for detail, its kind of the first tool in the bag most people reach for when they want " a focal point", "oh I know blood stains!" Well... you need to make sure you do them right and you need to use other tricks because blood as a focal point, gets pretty old.

marq4porsche

Hey guys new crates! what do you think?


Vig, I am no longer going to have blood in this scene. It just doesn't fit the style I'm trying to go for and even though it's useful as a focal point it just doesn't work here.

gsokol, I always wanted these plants to be bio-luminescent, I always felt this was an alien world so to me it makes sense.

SasoChickenand The ferns and mushrooms are on the same map right now but I see what you mean, I'll work on the glow and hopefully fix it soon and I'll add the veins in, thanks for the feedback

marq4porsche

Hey guys, some more progress. Texture updates as well as lighting updates for almost everything.

ridley075

I like the style your going for, and somewhat the inclusion of both hard surface and organic materials in the scene, but I think you need to push the organic pieces more. Maybe there's a hole in the cieling, both emitting light and vines hanging down. Maybe the open door is being opened by huge branches twirling outside the door and into the scene. With the glowing plants, it appears to be a little sci-fi fantasy, so push it if you want. Also, make a harsh light come out of the main doorway that's opened, it'll help draw attention and interest, and if you put something in there, perhaps the branches, people will be more interested overall about what's going on in the mine. Currently, it looks good, but not all that interesting. Also, the door looks a little like the Imperial Insignia from Star Wars, just to let you know. Great start, just push it more.

marq4porsche

I really wanted to push this further especially when I started out with it but it's due next week so I just have to finish it now. I may revisit it after that to make it better for my portfolio but I also know I just need to finish it now. My next step I guess after this is finished for class is to push the vegetation and vines. But for now I just need to get it presentable.
I see the star wars lol, now that you mention it

More progress for your eyes!

marq4porsche

I'm gonna have those be computer monitors, I was also toying with the idea of having a directory kind of like a hospital would have, just so it's not too obvious though I'm playing with this idea as well

marq4porsche

More progress on here. I've textured the vines as well as normal mapped the mushrooms and ferns. I'm working on the asset that will be at the end of the hall and this scene will be finished for now soon. I also worked on the lighting a bit as well and hopefully it reads nicely.

brandoom

Not bad Marq, its really starting to come together.

Only crits i have are; the lips on the walkways, someone is going to trip over those! lol, I would lessen those a bit.

and also, maybe your planning to do this in the near future, but place those mushrooms and ferns all over the place! Why are they only in the corners?

keep the updates coming

marq4porsche

Heh, soo many people have died here.... so sad...

marq4porsche

Here's a shot of the signs at the end of the hall, I like these better than the computer terminal.

Soulis6

Dude, that's looking pretty awesome, i'm definitely getting the Metroid vibe from it. Those mushrooms are great. Only crit I can see is what Brandoom said about the floor tile separators, that would be a pretty hard place to walk around in. If you made the middle of the separators flush with the floor, or at least sloped, it would help that out a lot I think.