First W.I.P. - Warcraft-Based ORC.

zakhar2

Hello everybody, my name is Zak, and I am a 16 year old modeler. I've been doing 3d schtuff for about 1.5 years, and I recently decided to make a World of Warcraft fan-art. I realize orcs aren't really original, but I find them rather kewl. So far, i spent about... 2-3 days on this?

I tried to keep the head of the model as close as i could to the actual game, but i sorta made up the torso as i went along... >.< Any and all critiques + comments welcome, especially about anatomy and topology. I will try to follow the to the best of my abilities.

Created using Maya 2009.

Rojo

It's shaping up nicely.

Your topology flows well but is unnecessarily heavy in areas, for instance the deltoid isn't defining much. These polys could instead be used to better define the ear or finger.

Shogun3d

Poly and loop distribution is a bit of a mess. Keep tightening them up! Proportions are coming along nicely, looking forward to your work!

zakhar2

Thanks guys! I think my main problem is that I have no idea of how to terminate edgeloops. Like Tim said, my deltoid isnt very well defined. But i dont know how i would define it without throwing a lot of loops at it :poly122:. Most of the time, it ends up looking something like this:


Im pretty sure I'm doing it wrong. If any of you guys could help, that would be awesome.

(P.S. Are my image sizes alright? I could make them smaller if people want...)

Shogun3d

select your edge and loop it, then hit Ctrl + Backspace?

zakhar2

kaburan wrote: »

select your edge and loop it, then hit Ctrl + Backspace?

>.< lol, sorry, I guess I wasnt being clear when I said "I don't know how to terminate edge loops".

Basically, i have trouble cleaning up an area so that it remains all quads, with no tris or n-gons.... so i end up making a mess, like i did behind the ear. I hope that makes more sense???

zakhar2

Added legs. Idk why, but something seems really wrong with the torso.....

Rojo

Once you're at it long enough you'll be able to see in edgeloops. If Maya has edge tools like Modo, you can highlight loops and 'scan' around the mesh. It's helpful in identifying places to terminate. If there is a pen tool for cutting multiple edges inside of polygons, make this your best friend, you can redirect loop flows without forethought.

The torso, arms and legs are short. It makes the orc look stocky.

zakhar2

@tim: You where absolutely right! I made those parts longer and it definitely looks better.


Anywho. Didn't feel like messing around with the feet today, so I threw some armor on him. That is all.

PixelGoat

Face is looking nice. But whats with the paper hands?

zakhar2

So. Apparently, you guys dont like his hands, eh? Well, howa 'bout these?

ironbearxl

Hi zakhar,

I did a paintover to explain the problem loops in the mesh:



Instead of making the hands curled in, model them in a flat pose ( the wrist too).

zakhar2

Thanks so much for that piantover man!

Anywho. i decided to take this huy into zbrush. legs are still messed up.

Sirdelita

watch the flow from the fore arm to the hands. I like your base mesh, but I would over-all reexamine and plan out your sculpt.

zakhar2

Yeah, i still havent completely finished the base mesh, so the sculpt is more of a practice type deal. As others have previously said, the poly distribution is lacking, and i didn't fix that before I imported it into zbrush, so.... yeah. I'll definitely prepare it better when i do the "real" sculpt.

achillesian

since you, cough, err, own Zbrush, might i recommend making the basic forms in it and then using a tool like 3d coat or zbrush itself to retopo. I find it easier than the old way, it lets you focus totally on form during one session, and totally on topology and efficiency in the other.

X-One

Not to derail the thread or anything, but I've been doing it the old school way for a while now, and I'm really interested in trying to retopolgize in zbrush. You happen to have any good links handy that might just happen to clearly illustrate how it's done? Pretty please?

zakhar2

okay guys, i have a question. If my final base mesh is gonna look kind like this, do i need to make legs? currently, the orc does have them, but I'm wondering if they're necessary at all. Also, the gear isn't really based on any real in-game Warcraft stuff, or even a specific class for that matter. I just kinda put together some stuff that looked cool....

I also added most of the topology edits suggested by ironbearxl. If anyone has any crits regarding.... anything, i would be really happy to hear them.



p.s. the ears still suck, i know. >.<

ZacD

You should do legs, right now it just looks like you're trying to take the easy way out and not model them.

zakhar2

He does have legs. Its just that, they're never gonna be seen so i was wondering if im just wasting polys. idk. see? legs:

zakhar2

Sometime after posting the last update I realized that this entire project ... sucked. Bad. So for the past month or so I've been looking at a lot more reference and anatomy concepts, etc, and i decided to do an (almost) complete restart. Hopefully this shows some improvement.




Now I'm beginning to work on the hands, but i cant seem to get them "orcish" enough. What i have so far:

MainManiac

Not bad at all, you're definitely farther than i was when i was a year and a half into 3d.

Megabiv

Whoa, thats a definate improvment over the original torso. The hands are also much better, as for being more "orcish" i'd have a go at fattening them out. From what i've seen most orc's (as if its a real creature :P) seem to have chunkier hands than we humans, also have a look at the way the hands are done for the "hulk" as those look pretty orcish to me.

Nice pic of an Orc, in which his hands/fingers are easily bigger than a humans:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/341/8/5/WOW_fanart__Orc_Death_Knight_by_dwinbotp.jpg

Put an axe in one hand and some armour on him and he'd look like an orc alright:
http://www.entertainmentwallpaper.com/images/desktops/movie/the_incredible_hulk07.jpg

Still great work though, and i'll be having a peek at this when you've got more posted.

benny350

Huge improvement. Great work researching and getting reference it's a really important part of the process in this industry.

Keep it up mate.

Raider

it's looking good... but you need to decide if you're going wow style... or wow style but normal mapped..

if wow style, all the detail is painted, there's no point modeling the abs. You can model the very basic forms (and i mean very basic like overall bulk) and the rest is texture work. Or you could do normal mapping, in which case you make the most basic mesh possible, take it into zbrush do your detailing, retopo and project.

Atm you're kind of stuck between both of them

zakhar2

Actually I was gonna do a current to next gen version. My first version was around 1200 polygons, and had very little detail in it, and I wasn't using any of that efficiently. Now I'm aiming for the 10,000 to 15,000 range, and yes, I'll be doing normal maps.

@Megabiv, now that you've pointed it out, it seems so obvious that I should use the hulk as a reference.... Thanks!

I made the hands bigger, but i dont know if its enough.



Also, thanks to everybody else for the encouraging comments!

Megabiv

Hey no problem, and the hands are looking much more orcish

woogity

can you upload some images with wireframe when you get the chance its looking good at the moment, and the improvements you made are huge over the original great progress here

marlfox8

pretty good so far

zakhar2

I... I dont even know. I kiinda remade the head, but i think it might look too human? Also attached it tho the body i blocked out last time, which i still havent detailed. :poly141:

Kinda reminds me of cronos from god of war, and the heavy from TF2 for some reason. =/

JeremyRM

Are you planning on bringing this into zbrush? If so why not cut back on the polys and build a more uniform base mesh with a good silhouette. Making sure polys are evenly spaced or you will get bunching when you divide in zbrush. If you aren't planning on zbrush the head still needs to be cleaned up. I think you jumped into putting way to many polys before being happy with the block out. Now you're just going to be fighting it trying to get it to look the way you want. Perhaps a bigger brow would help, find a good reference and work from it, try looking through the warhammer table top models if you can't find any good wow refs.

zakhar2

Jeremy, i was originally planning to take this into zbrush, do a complete high poly, etc.

BUT, i feel like Ive bitten off more than i can chew with this project. Ive barely worked on this since Ive begun, and the constant redesigning has been extremely frustrating.

Since the head has been the strongest part of the model (imo), I've separated it (again) and began texturing it, just to get some practice. If i think i can finish the model, I'll reattach the body, otherwise its just a head.



I havent really done texture painting before, so im not very good yet... =\

All crits + comments welcome.

(sorry for the wall of text and rant. i talk too much. >.<)

Saiainoshi

I think that it's great you're working in black and white first. If you feel your textures aren't solid yet, continue to work in black and white. It will be very clear what is and isn't working value wise for your texture. Color should come pretty easily once your values are laid in.

JeremyRM

It really can be frustrating and sometimes you do just have to move on. For future reference this might help you out some. It really gave me a better understanding of how to go about the entire process.

http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/maya/steamaster/