Head Modeling... not progressing... any tips?

Tom Ellis

Hey there,

I'm currently on my 15004th attempt at box modelling a head and the realization that I cannot 'get it' is starting to hit.

I'm ok with the 'edge-extrude' point to point method of head modelling, but not only do I find this next to impossible without ref planes, it's slow.

I would love to be able to just quickly rough out a head from box modelling and gradually improve to the point I could actually produce a decent looking head.

I've followed many tutorials, even videos which pretty much go through the entire process and I just can't get it.

The problem is that I am not improving. It's not a case of practice makes perfect because I make no progress no matter how much I do it, I'm just doing it wrong or not seeing things the way I should or something.

It's frustrating because it's one thing I really want to be able to do, I'm ok with hard surface, ok with bodies, vehicles etc (when I say 'ok' I mean I seem to see some progress or improvement each time I make anything) but I'm just going nowhere.

Any suggestions on tutorials to try, or any tips on this modelling style which could help me start making progress?

How did you guys start out with heads? Like everyone needs to learn at some point so how did you learn, practice etc.?

It's frustrating because I'm not improving, if I sucked but got slightly better each time, I'd be cool with that and practice practice practice, but as it stands I'm just getting nowhere.

Many thanks

SpeCter

If you are using 3dsmax you could also try to use the Paint Deformation to block out your head.

I would also suggest looking at other modelled heads and how the artist did them.You should look at real heads and study them,reference is WIN.You might think:" Hey i know how a head looks", but that may not be true more or less.

I had a same problem with muscels, because i thought i knew where they are and how they look, but that was not true.

Just look at refs and do it over and over again, look for things which take much time and how you can improve your workflow. You will improve, trust me.

Personally i prefer the edge-extrude method, but with box modelling it can be done as good, just a matter of what you like more.

DarthNater

Have you tried extruding? I can't for the life of my box model a head, but if I start with a plane and extrude the edges I can model a decent face.....

Neavah

http://www.freeitsolutions.com/3ds/viewTutorial.aspx?id=508

could be somthing to try

Tom Ellis

Thanks for the replies.

I'm ok with the edge extrude method but I just feel being able to box model would allow me to rough out quick ideas, although hearing someone say they are ok with one method but not the other is kinda putting my mind at ease a little

throttlekitty

Looking at your Pawn WIP, I think you would benefit from better topology. I don't think I've seen many really good face models that didn't have the 'proper' topology to suit the forms.

The Pole - Subdivision Modeling- This thread really helped me *get it* when it comes to laying out nice forms. Looking at other peoples' models is a good start. You might want to try taking some face shots off the web, and do some paintovers of topology in 2d.

Tom Ellis

Thanks for the link, that's a great help.

Also, good idea regarding the paintover, I think having a good understanding of the topology before I start may help a lot.

I'll keep trying, I think I'll post something to get some pointers if I get stuck again!

Zwebbie

A Better Face, by TorQ, is the tutorial that helped me a great deal. It's written for Blender, but should, in some form or another, be usable for any other piece of software as well. I think it's very useful, because with just 10 loops, you've got the major shapes and you can work your way on adding from there. It's easy enough to memorise. The nose image, by the way, should have been an animated .gif, but it might have been lost to mankind now - it mainly extruded the whole selected part of the nose, rearranged the vertices, extruded in the nostrils and re-triangulated some bits near the bottom.
I don't agree with it completely anymore, though, but it's nice and quick. Some good face topology reference can be found with Michel Roger.

I'd also like to mention that every time I do a head, I panick after a short while, because the result looks lousy compared to what I did last time. It's only after tweaking for a while that it turns out much better. So don't give up too soon.

Tom Ellis

Thanks Zwebbie those are awesome links.

Your comment about the immediate panic at the early stages of the model are familiar! I think that may be what puts me off so I will bear that in mind!

Thanks again.

Calabi

I dont know if you've seen this tutorial.

http://www.arildwiro.com/tutorials/modelling/head/head.html

Its the best one I've seen, I got the furthest with it.

I think when you start modelling its hard because it looks so unfamiliar alien, the idea is too tweak it till it does look familiar dont add loads of edges, unless you really need to, dont add edges mindlessly, find where they belong.

Tom Ellis

Thanks Calabi,

I have seen that tutorial, Neox posted it in my last moan about character modelling, I got into it a certain amount but got lost halfway through. I think I just found either that guys video, or someone using his method on YouTube though which appears to follow exactly the same modelling process. I will revisit it!

I think following the help on here, I will test out various methods and just repeat them until it starts to become familiar.

After all, even building say a barrel or crate was a challenge initially whereas practice and repetition has made it second nature so to speak.

Thanks again for the replies.

Frump

Box modeling kind of baffles me as well, it seems very inefficient to me compared to extrusion modeling. If you understand and can do extrusion modeling, keep at it. There's no reason to try and learn a method you don't understand when you already have the means to get to the same end result. It will of course be slow at first, but after you do it enough you will get fast at it.

If you want to build up forms quickly you can always go into zbrush and just sculpt from a sphere which is faster than box modeling and mostly the same process, just without messing with topology.

CheeseOnToast

Box modelling faces and heads can be a slow and unweildy process. As Frump said, edge extrusion is much easier to do for this kind of thing. Extrude your major loops then fill the gaps between them. So much easier and quicker.

Muzzoid

I think that your main problem would be not understanding how the planes of the face go. As soon as you get it it becomes so much faster as there are certain landmarks that you can put down to get the correct shape fast.

Also practice drawing heads.... it really really helps.

http://philippefaraut.com/store/reference-casts/planes-of-the-face.html
http://philippefaraut.com/store/reference-casts.html

eld

I use the extrusion method, and if that seems easier for you, then use that one, It's fully possible to quickly mockup big shapes even with extrusion.

Unleashed

I remember MoP made a really nice head box modeling tutorial aaaages ago, it was my modeling bible before i took a break from 3d.
imho it would be easier to learn sculpting a head and retoppo after, and then learn how edgeloops work etc but thats just me

Wyldcard

It's part of the Joan of Arc tutorial but I found it pretty good. Really helpfull.

http://www.3dtotal.com//ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/head1.php

Sandro

Yes, definitely start learning face planes. Model them, draw them or sculpt them.. Either way is good. You can purchase some models or just google images like these
http://www.mantlestudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/planes.jpg

Once you get comfortable with head planes and proportions, everything else is just details. You can block-in your models any way you want, be it clay or bunch of tetrahedrons stacked together.

Tom Ellis

Thanks for the replies. And those links are a great help, much appreciated!

With regard to the edge extrude method, do you guys who prefer it get on ok modelling heads that without ref? I would love to be able to block out heads that way since I'm ok with it, but I need a ref to line up edges etc.

And secondly, if anyone (or MoP!) could dig up that box modelling tut mentioned I'd love to check it out!

Wyldcard

I think it depends on the artist. I for one can't do a face without a ref picture on a plane to work from. BUT I know quite a few artists who could do it without, then again they are awesome 2D artists who have spent alot of time studying the human form.

It's all about familiarity with the subject.

Tom Ellis

I'm more than happy to stick with the way I know, I suppose I've just got this thought in the back of my head... what happens if I get an art test, or a job where the art lead says 'model a head, here's your concept art'...

Obviously I have no idea on the likelihood of that happening since I'm not yet employed in the industry... but does a situation like that occur? Or would you just grab some photo/image ref that kinda suits the concept somewhat.

I noticed in the new Ballistic book on Killzone 2 they used photographs of real people for the characters heads, but say in a more cartoon or stylised situation, I can't imagine how I'd go about doing the extrusion method without some back/side planes.

Wyldcard

Well, unless you were a concept designer, the chances are someones gonna give you something to work from. Then it's up to your interpretation how YOU take a concept and make it into something. At the end of the day thats what you will get paid for, how you take a concept and make it into something "real". ^^

CheeseOnToast

Be wary of getting TOO reliant on front and profile shots to work from. For one thing if you work in the orthographic viewports, you don't have any perspective. Learn a few rules about the size and placement of major features on the head. It's not too much to remember and you'll pick it up quickly. It'll allow you to work from non-orthographic views, just free modelling in the perspective viewport. Still work with good reference to hand though.

There's a decent guide to proportions as seen from the front here :

http://www.vincesear.com/how-to-paint-people/

Not too much to remember, as I said.

Even when you have concept art to guide you,a lot of the time it will be a posed figure. I've seldom had model sheets to work from, and actually prefer not to have them as it makes the job much duller, more like painting by numbers.