Image Heavy-Textures, props, and Personal - First Post (sorta)
Hello, I'm a long time spectator but this is my first time posting on thepolycount forums in several years. I've been in games since 03. I was apart of the recent Pandemic closure and wanted to post some of the high poly work/personal work I've done over the last 3 or 4 years. Some of the personal art was inspired by Kevin Johnstone awesome work. I wanted to practice High density modeling and greebled surfaces in hopes of improving my skills.
Any and All critiques are welcome. I'm always taking notes.
Any and All critiques are welcome. I'm always taking notes.
Replies
great models aswell
Thanks for sharing with us
I will try to shamelessly steal some of your techniques if you don't mind
I hope that you will find something soon; your models are simply amazing. Closure of Pandemic was really shocking.
Your work has definitely improved since you last posted here. Nice HPs.
Yes, i need to work on my hand painted Texture skills though
Thank you all. I'll try and post a few more shortly.
Yes it's modeled. The Pealing paint came from an online reference at CGtextures. I collaged together a few pealing patterns in photoshop, then projected the pattern to a single grid plane in XSI then manually cut and deleted away the Patterns. From then on all that's needed is the subtle peal back details which was done by selecting the vert points at the peal
junctures and rolling back the verts with soft/proportional settings on. After this, take it into zbrush and give it any desired wear and tear.
Sadly a process like this can prove costly in terms of time. As a result, I've found that if you take the same collage pattern and filter through crazybump, output a normal map, (and by retaining your original collage patterns in photoshop layers) you can just manually paint in the peal with
normal map colors. It's faster than modeling everything. I'll post some A-Z process diagrams later.
Render set up was achieved in Softimage XSI. Generic settings i guess. Though I am still new to XSI's render techniques. It sums up to Mental Ray with FG and GI on (though GI was probably unnecessary). Just a few lights placed in the scenes around each model. The idea was one primary direct light with a few omni (point) lights as subtle fills. The primary light casts the shadows and photons. 2m Rays i think. I tryed to follow XSI's Help menu and this link - http://www.edharriss.com/tutorial_GI/xsi_global.htm
The Rock walls were extracted from internet images and by using Crazybump I outputted a displacement map into zbrush and used Deformations-offset on a teccilated Zplane3d. Going this route generally allowed the ability to extract all necessary texture info from the high rez and composite in photoshop for your final Diff, spec, and Normal map. This was also good in that you didn't have to deal with licensing complications from an Internet source. In the end, all that was used was the essence of the photo, not the photo its self.
The Stacked Stone walls and Brick walls were modeled in XSI from online reference images then sculpted in zbrush using scaled alpha's for final details. The grout for each was a separate plane brought in as a subtool.
The Arch was modeled in XSI and sculpted in zbrush. Each component was sculpted separately in the subtool stack but they
originated from XSI.
All high poly meshes were poly Decimated in Zbrush and brought back into XSI for Texture Baking and rendering.
Go for it man. That's one of my reason for posting. Hopfully you guys can build upon it and make the idea better or maybe even change the idea all together and suggest better ideas. I'm always taking notes.
I've learned alot from this forum and those like it. Most of the reason the quality is better is becuase i've been spending the last few years just digging into other peoples pimp posts, reading and studying and applying those techniques to my own work flows. I'm happy to say alot of it paid off. Thank you.
The closure was a shock indeed. I heard the news while on vacation in Hawaii with family.
Enjoy.
http://bobbyrice.blogspot.com/
Awesome portfolio aswell, why arn't you working at Epic.
XSI users ftw!
Great stuff and thanks for posting with your experiences, nice to see an artist that doesn't just post and ditch the thread, or not respond at all.
How did you make he brick walls?Is it just a zbrush plane which is extruded or did you have
singel base bricks that you layed out first?Would love to hear about the process
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_albufHASkZ4/Sw9M3ulQJeI/AAAAAAAAAYY/IYogX8k0UpY/s1600/Texture_Bricks.jpg
The Bricks were modeled and assembled in XSI then sculpted in zbrush for final shaping and detailing. I've treid extruding in zbrush from an alpha or using the Model Tile function in zbrush and just painting in the bricks. Both work farily well in terms of speed. However, It was Extremely helpful to following Kevin Johnstons method - http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=62114&highlight=kevin+johnstone&page=3
Modeling the bricks and separating the elements seemed easier to manage.
The same is true on the top of the stair case, often its the case with pieces like this that you need to trust in simplicity and not fall victim to 'the fear' that the plain elements need more work. I fall into this mistake often and need to remind myself also to trust in the simplicity of the singular forms strength when I'm not feeling it. In hindsight I've found that pieces I made in more of a rush where I didn't have the time to over think them, the pieces were more popular and perhaps that is the issue as you said these were pieces you made for yourself and I would imagine your own deadlines are easier to manage than your professional ones?
Either way, its what I call a 'good problem' because it can be fixed by being easier on yourself.
The tiling rock pieces are exceptionally strong, your work on LOTR has really served you well in terms of teaching you how to handle rock forms, all the concrete and rock stuff is very well balanced. Even the crates have interest and invention which is the sign of a true professional, ie you did not simply concede they were a throwaway asset and knock them out without thought toward creativity as you rushed toward the hero pieces.
I looked through your website link also, likewise stunning work. All I would recommend is that you continue to restrain yourself in terms of balancing your level of detail. I don't think you are pushing too much detail, I think you are not balancing it enough with plainer forms inbetween the intense areas on occasion is all. And as I said, I fall into the same polygon addiciton issues
Great stuff man. Really hope you've got some process/workflow pics somewhere too, would be amazing to see :P
*bookmarked*
Kevin,
It is refreshing to hear that. I think I do go way too far at times with hard surface detail modeling. But as you said, it is a good problem. Thank you for your thoughts, complements and critiques. I agree with you 100%.
I've never been fully happy with the pillar or the top of the staircase railing or even the simplistic (non weathered) nature of the staircase brick. I've been tossing around the idea of ditching the inner pillar design and re-modeling it with a simple splined path that would deform to the curvature of the pillar. The original (as you see above) was an early test in zbrush using the Subtool Mask extract function. It turned out to be messy, blobby and uncontrollable. Maybe, the metal viney line flows along the side of the staircase would serve as a better example of how it should flow?
For the pillar I was thinking of re-modeling the underlying brick and instead going with segmented stone collumn much like you see in Greek or Roman architecture except without the vertical line decor.
What do you (or anyone) think?
Also, what were your thoughts (or anyones thoughts) on the arch way model? What doesn't work with that peice. What can I do to make it better?
Thanks.
wouldn't it have been easier to use the patterns as a mask and extract them as new geo from a plane in zbrush?
really looking forward to the breakdowns
XSI was more of a program i had to learn because that's what came with Pandemic. However, in my experience with 3ds Max, Maya and XSI, XSI has proven to be the fastest modeling program. Every single function is mapped to the keyboard. Every Cut, bevel, and extrude operation is just a keystroke away and after thought rather than some clunky icon or menu I need to go digging around for in the program. I'd recommend XSI as a side modeling program any day. I know alot of character artist that use it for their primary character creation program. They import from XSI to what ever the engine exporter uses. It's a "SUPER" program and i recomend it to anyone. For me it probably spead up my modeling skills by factor 10.
To put it in precise terms, XSI 2010 64 bit handles polys like a hot knife through butter. The newest XSI version utilizes every single bit of your CPU and GPU and spits out a VERY fast operating function.
Generally, i try not to deal with anything higher than 3 or 4 million in XSI. XSI can probably push 16 to 20 million Polys, but I've never had a reason to go that high in XSI or Maya or Max. I leave the high poly sculping to zbrush and Poly Decimate in zbrush for XSI editing.
Your absolutely right. I try to use high poly Geo transferred normals because they tend to be the cleanest and most accurate for normal maps. Extracting as you said would work fine, but it relys also of the quality of the mask your extracting and what you truly want to see. I felt it was important to concentrate on 2 aspects of the surface. The tiled pattern and the Peal.
At first, I went the long route because i wanted to capture the idea of the pealing aspect of the paper. Manual cuts in XSI seemed to make the most sence. But that ended up being, time wise, inefficient. However, I did apply the method you suggested for the top overlay weathered pattern.(Cracks, ripples, indents)
In hindsight, I found that Hand painting the peal into the normal map from the initial Photoshop callaged Pattern was a thousand times faster and delivered the EXACT results. But it's hit or miss and in this specific case, it worked. Using this method is a balancing act and you have to account for your own speed with what ever method works for you and the time given. Alot of times, Cutting corners is just what has to be done.
Uh, not to try and detract from the thread, I mean you do great artwork here, but... you know you can assign hotkeys to any function in Max and Maya too, right?
XSI's UI is overly simplistic and i think alot of that has to do with the extreme nature of its default keystroke mapping. XSI (for me) is a time saver and is good for transitioning Maya users into XSI. There are a bunch of pros and Cons to each program. It would make for an interesting debate in another thread.
I am reassured that you said that because the next job i take will likely be a Maya studio and i've been researching ways to mimic XSI's keystroke in Maya. Ironically XSI can mimic Maya, Maya and Max can mimic each other with a program called Switcher, but never has it been easy to go from XSI to Maya and/or Max. I have to except that mapping each key individually is the only way.
In some ways it's better than hotkeys because you can have all the context-sensitive stuff on one hotkey which pops up the marking menu, then different gestures off that result in various commands. Once you get used to it I think it can be much easier to remember than individual hotkeys (and you don't run the risk of ending up with billions of hotkeys where C does something, CTRL+C does something else, SHIFT+C does something else, etc etc).
How do you create a texture like this tile-able?
i love the highpoly WIP gun very cool
[FONT="]I think the whole Shift + C and Ctrl + C idea does not really bother me all that much. It falls under memory. XSI has a unique default setup of positioning core modeling functions around the hand radially. Alt=S and around the left hand exists all necessary functions. After adaptation and familiarity is achieved i found that i almost never looked down at the keyboard while modeling. It's a preference though. I HATED XSI at first. But after a week or 2, I loved it.[/FONT]
I'll try my best to get some visual guides for the texture tiles soon. I won't be able to provide audio vids until i get a mic.
In the mean time try this:
take a photo from cg textures or google images of something organic but with no direct lighting.
in photoshop, make tillable. i usually never go beyond 1024 resolution because crazybump sometimes does not recognize the clipboard beyond 1024.
In photoshop, Ctrl A the texture page and hit Ctrl C to copy. Ctrl Shft C will copy Multi-layers. In the case of Ctrl Shft C, it does not matter which Layer is selected, only what is visible.
Open Crazybump. Click the open folder(bottom left) and click the open copied icon for the diffuse (Bottom Row, far left). Remember, if your image exceeds 1024 rez, crazy bump might not recognize the clip board and you'll have to bring it in manually.
In Crazy Bump, choose either of the two "3D" approximation selections. It does not matter which because you can invert later.
Now you have your image in crazy bump, start tweaking the sliders until you have the normal map looking as close to the image as possible with in crazybump limits. Once you have your desired look, go to the displacement tab and save out the displacement texture as a BMP or PSD.
Open Zbrush. Create a ZPlane. Convert to MakePoly3d under Tool. Under Geometry tab, teccilate to 5 or 6 iterations. Try and be reasonable about the teccilation relative to texture size. Example : 1024=itt 6 512=itt 4 etc.
In the Texture tab (usually on the left of the UI) go to Import, then find your BMP or PSD Displacement Texture and open.
Your Texture will appear overlayed on the zplane.
Go to Tool - Masks - "Mask by intensity"
Go back to the texture tab and turn off the texture.
Then go to Tool - Deformations - "Offset" -- Within ,"Offset", make sure X and Y are turned off and Z is turned ON.
Start moving the "Offset" Slider back and forth in small increments to see extrusion results. From here you'll be able to sculpt with in the confines of the mask with any brush and/or stroke.
After I have the results I want, I generally save and clean up teccilation density with the zbrush Decimator Plugin-in.
From here I usually bake to a flat Grid Plane in XSI to get the AO, and Normal Map. And in some cases, if there are multiple Mesh groups, Ill bake an Albeto color map so to separate those elements in Photoshop layers easier.
I hope this is helpful. I apologize for any discrepancy. Im currently out of state and wrote on my laptop and from memory. If anything does not make since, please point it out. Ill do my best to clarify.
Hope you guys have fun making cool textures.
[FONT="]Enjoy.
I tried the method described above and ran into a small issue that I'm sure is easily resolved. Once applying the displacement as a mask and then using the offset to pop the polymesh plane into depth displacement the resulting mesh is showing to be almost a mosaic tessellation in appearance. I had subdivided the polymesh plane to 7 iterations and still got this result. Is there something I'm missing. The results are very close to what I'm looking for minus this small artifacting problem.
Thanks again for this useful information. Appreciated.
You'll run into this from time to time. I believe this could be attributed to a few things. Sometimes your diffuse has subtle (but noticeable by crazybump) variations in pixel tones. Try the following:
1. Before filtering through Crazybump, try slightly blurring the image in photoshop or manually by hand in the areas that cause stair stepping.
or
2. Before saving out your displacement map from Crazybump, try adjusting the Crazybump Displacement Slider controls. Sometimes adjusting depth, enhanced detail and Soften settings can make all the difference.
And if non of the above works, try using the zbrush clay or flatten brush at low intensities to smooth out the issues. I used this approach on the first rock piece below. Once zbrush popped out the important broad shapes, sculpting from that point on was easier.
[/FONT] [FONT="]Keep in mind, this method is intended to give you the base strokes. You still need to use zbrush to bring about your final product.[/FONT]
Hope this helps
edit* I gave the slight blurring and even softening via displacement settings but still tend to get that almost moire pattern / mosaic showing up in my zbrush mesh once offset.
1. After you extrude from mask in zbrush, click the "clear" button under Tool - Masking. Then under Tool - Deformation, slide the "smooth" option to the extreme right about 2 to 4 times (depending on teccilation). Be sure "Smooth" has "XYZ" on. This should locally smooth out the stepping.
2. Reducing the amount of SDiv levels in the zplane prior to "offset" can help.
For me, this method has only served as the base shape for a starting point. It's meant to create the broad strokes. Everything else was always sculpted for final shape.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for tips!