Edge placement, normal mapping and sub-d

Dandi8

Hey guys. I always wondered what the best edge flow for normal mapped stuff (and highpoly smoothing) is and decided to make a simple RTS-type building which I would then normal map (by baking a highpoly model onto it). While modelling the simplest prop I could think of, I came across a problem.

Which of these two have better edge placement and why?
Where should I add/remove/bevel edges if I want to use it as a lowpoly model for the normal map?
Where should I add/remove/bevel edges if I want it to look good when subdivided?

Finally, what other tips do you have for me?



Keep in mind that this is not what I'd call a worthy model, it's just a simple prop to show off my errors and such.


Thanks and I promise no moral lessons this time (although it *was* kind of fun back then)

Ghostscape

If you want to subdivide, start by adding these edges (I only focused on the edge facing the camera, mirror it over to the other side, obviously).



B is the better low poly, but A is the better start for a high poly.

Have you even tried to subdivide either of these? Where you need to reinforce edges becomes much more apparent if you drop a turbosmooth on top of your mesh and start going in and reinforcing edges, etc.

edit: oh hey, I missed a second supporting edge for the leftmost window.

Dandi8

Thx.
Should I add them by hand or using the 'subdivide edges' tool etc.? Does it matter how accurately spread they are?

DarthNater

I use the connect tool. Obviously, the closer your edges are together, the sharper your edges will be. If your going to sculpt anything, you're going to have to go about this a completely different way You'll have to crease edges and then subdivide everything as evenly as you can (try to make you're polies as close to squares as you can).

Dandi8

Where in XSI can I find the connect tool? Never heard of it o.O
And what do u mean by creasing edges?

Here's what I have so far:


I'm having doubts if I should now start chopping through the whole mesh just to get my edges to flow through the window-y stuff. Any more edge placement pointers and stuff? I don't wanna break it.

DarthNater

Oh, sorry I was talking about MAX. I don't know what XSI calls it.

Creasing edges is a way to make hard edges without adding additional edges to your geometry. I only do it when I am sculpting something, so I can keep my polies all the same size.

EDIT: Looks good, I think you forgot edges along the sides of your windows.

cryrid

I'd just add in the vertical loops needed to get rid of the n-gons around the windows. Some of those loops it might have been quicker just to select and add a bevel (smaller distance, possibly doing one level of rounding for any edges that actually define an edge)

vahl

the conenct-like tool is called split edges in XSI

Ark

Connect is called 'subdivide edge' (Shift+D) in xsi. Bevel tool will work fine for simple stuff like this though.

Dandi8

But should I make the edges go through the entire mesh (like a loop) or is it ok if I only select the window edges and bevel them? That would create triangles and I heard they're bad for sub-d.

On the other hand, if I make the the edges go through the entire mesh, I mess up the entrance tunnel part.


EDIT:
This is what I get when I try to bevel all of the window edges:


Call me dumb, but I really don't know which way to bite this.

Ark

Take a look at this thread: http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=56014

Dandi8

While immensely helpful, the thread you linked to (or at least the parts of it that I read already) didn't help me solve my problem, which is:
How to make the windows retain their shape, without having to make an edge loop through the entire mesh, thus ruining its lower parts?
Here's where I'm at so far:


And here's the only method I can think of:


IMO the red edges are bad. When I apply this method to my bunker-like building, it completely destroys the lower geometry, like this:

Ark

Take a look at this .obj file: http://www.sendspace.com/file/yb1a91

Theres a few ways to go about this.

Dandi8

But how is this method different from mine?


EDIT:
A bumpity in the bump, if I may.