Just a question, Didn't you use to be a so called fatass poop?
Yes. I was 102kg (226 freedom pounds) and now weigh 76kg (169 lbs). It coincided almost directly with when I left home and started having to feed myself.
ok serious point, your bran flakes and fruit contain just as much sugar are the pastrys you think of unhealthy. Your low fat diets are only doing you good(or better than most other people) because of the high and constant amout of insulin in your bood. It is my current view(although it obviously dosen't mean im right!) that a high fat is good for you as long as you dont digest it with sugary carbs and most peoples idea of a healthy diet is still way off and that even the 'educated healthy' people have the wrong view.
You know, it's funny, at one point in history, being overweight was considered healthy and a sign of wealth. Now it's such a negative thing, because of health concerns.
IMO, the scale of what is considered obese is wrong. The U.S. tends to get high obesity percentages because the weight at which people are considered obese is wrong.
That being said, I know it's still comparing other countries using the same numbers, and the U.S. still comes up with a higher percentage. But, the way I see it, people in many other countries are too skinny, and to me, look unhealthy. Could Americans be healthier? Sure, but I don't consider a majority of them to be 'fatasses'.
And I do still think there are plenty of Americans pulling up their bootstraps and getting shit done. I just think there was a generation of laziness that we still have floating around the country
Because the only real answer is they're engaging in cognitive dissonance, and maybe someone will realize it by thinking about it themselves for more than 2 seconds.
ok serious point, your bran flakes and fruit contain just as much sugar are the pastrys you think of unhealthy. Your low fat diets are only doing you good(or better than most other people) because of the high and constant amout of insulin in your bood. It is my current view(although it obviously dosen't mean im right!) that a high fat is good for you as long as you dont digest it with sugary carbs and most peoples idea of a healthy diet is still way off and that even the 'educated healthy' people have the wrong view.
That sugar is unprocessed and takes more to convert. So technically, thats true. Realistically, they play out much differently in your body.
I have fruit smoothies once in awhile. Lets say instead of a smoothie, I had kool-aid with the same carbohydrate count.
By now you may have figured out that the amount of sugar in a food is not a very reliable indicator of how much the food will affect blood sugar, because starches, and sometimes sugar alcohols, have similar effects.
What about the ugly skinny people..how do they factor into the equation
They have the exact same problem as the overweights, altough its not caused by the fast food industry, its just as ill and they just need to eat more healthy.
Interesting read, this is a growing problem that need to be dealt with. People take a stand in your life and dont eat that shit stuff, excercise!
OX im confused, you posted a link and quote backing me up while saying im wrong
If you need more infomation look at the Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load of food, its important to factor in the load otherwise you can missinterperate the effect it will have on you.
OX im confused, you posted a link and quote backing me up while saying im wrong
If you need more infomation look at the Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load of food, its important to factor in the load otherwise you can missinterperate the effect it will have on you.
Um no, the link doesn't. Im saying how it plays out in your body is different.
I don't buy into the excuse that processed food is cheaper, it's easier therefore its consumed more. Fruits and veggies are some the cheapest items in grocery store. The savings and the freshness get even better when you go to places that specialize in produce.
I think if you have to blame some external factor blame the car culture. It's 5-10 miles to whatever, everything is spread out. The car is in many cases the only real way to get from one important point to another. Towns and most cities are built on this principle and as a result no one walks. But even that excuse is just that, an excuse.
I also think that people who have never been overweight are way to quick to judge those who are. It's not just the mental side effect of being bigger. There are some serious physical side effects that really do a number on someone.
People who have never been overweight also think that losing the weight is just as easy as never putting it on in the first place. Once its off, its more of a struggle to keep your body burning instead of storing. You're a fatty for life even if you're at a normal weight there are things that happened to your body that aren't normal and will always be persistent problems even if you maintain a normal weight. Things that a person who never puts on the weight will never have to deal with.
Once you create fat cells they're there forever. Like a storage lot, you can clean them out but they're hungry for whatever you can stuff in them. Add to it that as someone tries to starve themselves thin, muscle is the first to go. Muscle is the only way to burn fat. When you starve yourself your body stores instead of burns meaning exactly the opposite of what you need to have happen, happens. Any proportional change that takes place triggers this, so the idea that fatties just need to eat less makes them fatter. But that's what is preached at them all the time...
That works if you're not overweight to begin with, once you're there its a whole new game. Exercise more, eat the same proportions of food but eat things that aren't easily converted into fat. Once the muscle is built up you can then start to burn fat and reduce the proportions but the chances are that the person was eating normal proportions for someone who was active so they may not need to dial back the amount of food at all. They just need to keep their body burning fat and not eating muscle.
Because the only real answer is they're engaging in cognitive dissonance, and maybe someone will realize it by thinking about it themselves for more than 2 seconds.
The way that you can logically go about this without cognitive dissonance is either that they don't care or don't see it as a problem that they are fat, and feel that it would not be difficult to lose weight if they wanted to...or they feel they are fat by circumstance, and will be more capable of losing weight once their circumstances change.
Fruits and veggies are some the cheapest items in grocery store
Are you insane? I dont know where you're shopping, but a half pound of mixed fruit can be like $6, whereas a double cheese burger from McD's is $1.....
It is MUCH cheaper and easier to eat only shit food, that anyone would try to argue that is just confusing....
Are you insane? I dont know where you're shopping, but a half pound of mixed fruit can be like $6, whereas a double cheese burger from McD's is $1.....
That's very true, if you want a bowl of fruits from Ralphs its about 8 bucks.
Are you insane? I dont know where you're shopping, but a half pound of mixed fruit can be like $6, whereas a double cheese burger from McD's is $1.....
This was something I was going to include in my post but found it not relevant to the point I was trying to address to Poop. A lot of unhealthy food here in the US is either cheaper, quicker, or both cheaper and quicker to procure than its healthier alternative. Beer, Soda, and Grape/Orange Drink (not juice) are often much cheaper than bottled water or actual juice, and like you pointed out, fast food is far cheaper and quicker to get than prepping a healthy meal yourself. Time and money are valuable things to people who don't have much of either.
Are you insane? I dont know where you're shopping, but a half pound of mixed fruit can be like $6, whereas a double cheese burger from McD's is $1.....
I was thinking the same. This year, I've tried changing my diet for lunch. Rather than getting the Marie Calendar microwave lunches, I've started making a deli meat sandwich and having fruit as a snack. My wife started joking about how expensive I was, because it was costing more to get the fruit and meat than it was to get 5 microwave meals.
This was something I was going to include in my post but found it not relevant to the point I was trying to address to Poop. A lot of unhealthy food here in the US is either cheaper, quicker, or both cheaper and quicker to procure than its healthier alternative. Beer, Soda, and Grape/Orange Drink (not juice) are often much cheaper than bottled water or actual juice, and like you pointed out, fast food is far cheaper and quicker to get than prepping a healthy meal yourself. Time and money are valuable things to people who don't have much of either.
I understand that very well. I'm aware there is a system that produces fat people in American unless an individual manages to rise above it despite the odds.
I understand that very well. I'm aware there is a system that produces fat people in American unless an individual manages to rise above it despite the odds.
I had another post a few above that one that resolved the cognitive dissonance.
ok sorry OX I didn't mean to get into an healthy eating discussion defending vanilla cakes over apples but I still think my point stands that many peoples idea of healthy food are not. And this is based on the thinking that Fruit and Grains are good and Fat is bad.
I feel an important point is this. from wikipedia.
Insulin is a hormone that has extensive effects on metabolism and other body functions, such as vascular compliance. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen in the liver and muscle, and stopping use of fat as an energy source.
with the key point being "and stopping use of fat as an energy source."
I think a constant presance of insulin in your body will keep you fat and make fat accumlate in places you dont want it.
ok sorry OX I didn't mean to get into an healthy eating discussion defending vanilla cakes over apples but I still think my point stands that many peoples idea of healthy food are not. And this is based on the thinking that Fruit and Grains are good and Fat is bad.
I feel an important point is this. from wikipedia.
Insulin is a hormone that has extensive effects on metabolism and other body functions, such as vascular compliance. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen in the liver and muscle, and stopping use of fat as an energy source.
with the key point being "and stopping use of fat as an energy source."
I think a constant presance of insulin in your body will keep you fat and make fat accumlate in places you dont want it.
I think information like you present is perfectly valid in a discussion like this. I agree btw that fat is thought of as fat, when there are many different types. Some good, some bad. The idea is to have balance in a diet (Imo).
People who have never been overweight also think that losing the weight is just as easy as never putting it on in the first place.
Well I agree with you but the problem is that most people over weight (or starting to go) in general don't do ANYTHING to tackle their problems, of course there is some that do and kudos and good luck to those, but I hate the people complaining and blaming others about their situation and is doing nothing them self to get better or whatever. Of course there are people genetically getting fat easy and well that just sucks for them like any other disease.
I think its because many things in america are oversized.
It almost forces you to drive everywhere!
Probably the high school football stars versus fat nerds thing and resulting frustration feeding could also be a reason.
This is my guess via internet and television so its highly speculative ^^
Personally I think "balance" isn't enough and thought has to be given to timing and pre/post activities. And back to the origional point that a balanced diet is not clear.
When I said accumliate in places you dont want it I meant places like arteries not giving you a fat arse.
Well I agree with you but the problem is that most people over weight (or starting to go) in general don't do ANYTHING to tackle their problems...
I completely disagree. I think a majority try things, but the problem is, they are so easily discouraged and they stop. Just like Vig mentioned originally, it's not as easy to take off as it is to put on and many overweight people don't have the resilience they require. That doesn't excuse their condition, but it's false to state that they don't to "ANYTHING".
This thread reminds me of "Kingdom of Loss" lyric by Pain of Salvation:
"Could someone please just tell me what happened?
I mean, first we pay for fast-food that will make us all fat and tired.
So then we pay for elevators, so we won't have to climb the three stairs up to our apartments.
Then we buy freaking StairMaster machines so we can burn away while watching someone make real food on TV.
Now, if that doesn't make us winners I don't know what will.
I bet we would hang ourselves if the world would just cut the slack.
And now you think maybe you should see a shrink, Help you feel alive again - yeah, that's a plan!
Just tell us who to pay."
"See, it's really all about time and choice.
The fast food saves us enough time to squeeze lunch in exactly when we want it.
The elevators save us just a little more, the StairMaster lets us choose exactly when to walk the stairs.
Time is so important these days, it's becoming a fucking disease, and I guess in a way it is since it's bound to kill us all in the end.
Now with all the time and money we stash away on others' expense, I can only assume that the tickets to hell are really expensive.
For some reason, it's important to be first in line."
You can't blame the fast food. I eat it A LOT and while I am a little overweight, I'm not considered 'obese'. I spend too much time sitting in front of the computer This ones for all the people that blame McDonalds....
Are you insane? I dont know where you're shopping, but a half pound of mixed fruit can be like $6, whereas a double cheese burger from McD's is $1.....
It is MUCH cheaper and easier to eat only shit food, that anyone would try to argue that is just confusing....
Its easier, not always cheaper. Lets talk potatoes since McDonalds like to shovel them like snow.
1 potato at Mc Donalds might = a large box of fries and cost the same amount as a 5lb bag of potatoes in a gocery store.
Take your pick, fat and grief for one meal. OR 15 potatoes you cook that are lot healthier and CHEAPER. They also last a lot longer than a box of fries... which is good because you don't want that much starch every day even if its wrapped in iron and vitamins.
Here are some common produce items I get for snacks side dishes and meals.
5 - Golden Delicious Apples 0.45 - 0.55 lb $2.47
1 - Beans Greens 0.45 - 0.5 lb $ 1.25
1 - Broccoli Crowns 0.75 - 1.0 lb $1.69 $1.69
1 - Lettuce Green Leaf Each $1.29 (5-7 salads)
2 - Cucumbers Each $0.69 (these go on the salads)
1 - Onions Green Bunch Each $0.69
1 - Pepper Bell Orange Each $1.99
1 - Peppers Bell Green Each$0.69
1 - Peppers Bell Red Each $1.99
1 - Russet Potatoes 5 lb Bag Each $1.89
Total: $14.64
The added cost to make meals out of this for a week is marginal. Probably 30-40 bucks if you add meat to every meal. Much less if its just rice, beans or pasta.
The cost to eat at McDonalds every day of the week 2 meals a day. $50.
"Why eat healthy its just going to break the bank" is a flawed argument. The heart attack at 35 is going to break you're bank a whole lot more...
Factor in the actual medical and health related costs of eating at McDonalds also and you're in a whole world of hurt, which ironically is where we are at with the health care debate...
Well I agree with you but the problem is that most people over weight (or starting to go) in general don't do ANYTHING to tackle their problems, of course there is some that do and kudos and good luck to those, but I hate the people complaining and blaming others about their situation and is doing nothing them self to get better or whatever. Of course there are people genetically getting fat easy and well that just sucks for them like any other disease.
There is the yo-yo effect too. People starve themselves thin, empty all the fat cells and lose muscle mass (which is needed to burn fat and calories). Then end up filling it all back up very easily even with modest proportions because they lack the muscle to burn the calories.
They gain it back plus a little, which means more fat cells that never go away, just empty and they probably lose more muscle mass. Muscle mass is the first to go when you starve, its the key ingredient in burning calories and keeping your body from storing.
I bet if you talked to a few overweight people they would tell you the #1 thing they are working on is losing weight. They probably think about it constantly and try all the time to lose the weight but the info that's out there and the way it's viewed actually help make them fatter.
So the idea that once they lose the weight they are "normal" and can eat normally is total crap. They're going to have a much harder time keeping the weight off than someone who never put it on.
Being fat at any point in your life will have sever consequences later. You need to stay active for as long as possible and more than normal people who never put on the extra weight. At some point age will catch up to you and those hungry fat cells will fill up again its just a matter of time and how long you can put it off.
I don't know if this is a valid arguement, Vig. Eating out is always going to be more expenseive than cooking for yourself. A $5 footlong sounds like a good deal until you realize you could spend slightly more on the ingredients in the grocery store and eat 5 sandwiches.
Sometimes you don't have the option to cook for yourself. Going from work to night school, etc. I'm 20-25 pounds overweight and I've gained it over the last 2.5 yrs from not exercising. It's hard to find time when you work a full-time job, are taking graduate classes, and are trying to balance home life/chores.
Does being 20 pounds overweight totally negate the hard-work and effort I put into academia, house and home, and hobbies and make me a lazy fuck? I may be fat, but I'm not lazy.
Threads like this make me thankful for the ignore list.
Its not always cheaper, and its not always more expensive, you throw in some fresh fruit, say pineapple, some strawberries, and yeah, MEAT, and your shopping list goes from $14 to about $40,
Now you could eat a double cheese burger every day for ever meal for a weak, and spend $15. Like i said, if you want to eat SHIT, it is cheap, cheaper than fresh produce, and what you have there aside from the lettuce and potatoes, is likely only enough food to make meals for a couple days, or only lunch. So if you mean eating potatoes and cabbage is cheap, well, yes it is.
The health concern is a very valid point, but for someone who would eat McD's every day, probably not the foremost concern.
I don't know if this is a valid arguement, Vig. Eating out is always going to be more expenseive than cooking for yourself. A $5 footlong sounds like a good deal until you realize you could spend slightly more on the ingredients in the grocery store and eat 5 sandwiches.
So then, its cheaper to eat healthier but not as easy or convenient... like I said, interesting considering that's the point I was making earlier and people called BS on it...
Its not always cheaper, and its not always more expensive, you throw in some fresh fruit, say pineapple, some strawberries, and yeah, MEAT, and your shopping list goes from $14 to about $40,
Now you could eat a double cheese burger every day for ever meal for a weak, and spend $15. Like i said, if you want to eat SHIT, it is cheap, cheaper than fresh produce, and what you have there aside from the lettuce and potatoes, is likely only enough food to make meals for a couple days, or only lunch. So if you mean eating potatoes and cabbage is cheap, well, yes it is.
The health concern is a very valid point, but for someone who would eat McD's every day, probably not the foremost concern.
Yea exotic fruit that is shipped in from tropical regions is tasty and sweet but expensive.
Maybe locally grown grapes instead of pineapple flown in from Hawaii.
Maybe locally grown cherries or apples instead of bananas from south America.
Maybe hit up a produce outlet instead of a high priced grocery chain.
Point is you can eat cheaply and be healthy its take a bit more work than going through a drive through. The idea that eating healthy breaks the bank is bunk and an excuse for people to keep to their shit eating ways.
As for the health concerns you're also more likely to get a bacteria related illness or a parasite, eating at a place that has so many hands in the food chain and I'm not just talking about the people in final assembly. There is a huge industry that puts that crap together before its reheated and served. That industry is prone to error and horribly flawed. When and if something goes wrong like it has in the past its too late, people are already sick.
The less hands on your food, the closer to whole it is the better chance you have of being able to avoid some like that.
No, you still havent proven that it is actually cheaper. Its cheaper if eat an $8 sandwich for every meal, of course, but you can eat out on the super cheap.
I dont know about you, but buying locally here is much more expensive, as it is in 90% of the country. I sure wish we had a whole foods, but we dont. So that is sort of misguided advice as well.
I love to hit up farmers markets etc when the weather is good, and we have Co-Ops here, but you're talking about a 25% markup min to buy local/organic goods.
I'm pretty sure poopinmymouth started this thread so that he could once again bitch about how much he hates the United States. I'm confused about why he still lives here, if his passionate loathing runs so deep. My theory is that he is a naturally negative individual. Deep down, he realizes that he would complain and moan no matter where he went, or who he lived near. The main reason why the United States is the focus of his ire is its proximity.
I'm also mildly amused to see this thread turned toward dietary discussion. My current kick is yogurt. I have taken a liking to eating yogurt for breakfast every morning. It's only 80 calories, and it settles my stomach better than most other breakfast foods. I'm also able to get yogurt with little chunks of fruit in it. (which I assume is good for my health) It's a bit bland at times, but tasty enough. And the fact that it settles my stomach nicely is important. Other breakfast foods like cereal, or even eggs and bacon, leave me feeling hungry in a few hours. A single container of yogurt has my stomach docile until lunchtime.
Its cheaper and healthier cooking for yourself and eating in than it is eating out. Having been a student you learn this very quickly. Here it costs £3.50 - £5 to eat a meal at McDonalds or Burger King. I eat MacDs once a week, just before playing football for an hour. Very tasty, but its the only processed food I eat in a week.
I go past the local fast food chains and see families eating there, they are spending, depending on the size of the family, close to £20 for one collective meal. The same amount of money could get them through half a week of meals. Theres a lack of education when it comes to home cooking, that has stemmed from convenience. Some people don't like cooking, and would rather be doing something more interesting. Some people are very fussy eaters and don't eat anything else apart from potatoes, pasta and easy foods.
I dont know about you, but buying locally here is much more expensive, as it is in 90% of the country. I sure wish we had a whole foods, but we dont. So that is sort of misguided advice as well.
I love to hit up farmers markets etc when the weather is good, and we have Co-Ops here, but you're talking about a 25% markup min to buy local/organic goods.
Maybe its different where you're at, maybe I live in a small farm friendly state, but local produce is actually cheaper at produce outlets. The chains grocery stores that that sell the exact same local produce mark it up and sell it as a niche item. But you don't have to pay the mark up and you don't have to buy local, you can go cheaper (and hurt local farmers) if you want.
I'm not arguing that its cheaper, but it can be cheap. Especially if you factor in the long term health concerns.
People treat produce like its made of gold. "oh fuck me this banana costs $150.00 I better start saving!" "naah I can't save so I'll just buy this burger that will cost me $25,000 in cardiac care in 15 years"
My theory is that he is a naturally negative individual. Deep down, he realizes that he would complain and moan no matter where he went, or who he lived near. The main reason why the United States is the focus of his ire is its proximity..
A: He doesn't live here anymore.
B: He has had positive things to say about where he now lives (Germany).
Vig, there is another factor in this (beyond the time to create). The energy to cook or chill the food is already in the cost of the ready meal. How much does that add to the home meal?
Also, there is the idea of the supermarket processed "home meal/can". Ready to eat versus just restaurants alone.
A: He doesn't live here anymore.
B: He has had positive things to say about where he now lives (Germany).
Vig, there is another factor in this (beyond the time to create). The energy to cook or chill the food is already in the cost of the ready meal. How much does that add to the homemeal?
A lot less then the meds you'll be on to keep your cholesterol low. Ronald doesn't sell you those at a discounted price. Someone else does and they know when you're looking to squeeze out a few more years and hoping to see your grand kids (or in some cases your own children) graduate from college, you'll pay just about anything.
talk to some seniors who ate healthy their entire life and are still stuck with meds because age caught up to them. Now imagine what the fast food generation is looking at...
A lot of produce actually keeps just fine out in the open at room temp. Some of it actually goes bad really fast if you cool it off, like bananas.
The cost to run my stove for 30min is a lot less money and impact on the environment then it is to run the stove, pay the people, and light the building at McDonalds. Whats the environmental cost of the hidden industry that trucks around and processes all the ingredients. What about the raising of the cattle in huge slaughter houses? What about the over fertilization of barren land just to grow enough potatoes and wheat?
Maybe its different where you're at, maybe I live in a small farm friendly state, but local produce is actually cheaper at produce outlets. The chains grocery stores that that sell the exact same local produce mark it up and sell it as a niche item. But you don't have to pay the mark up and you don't have to buy local, you can go cheaper (and hurt local farmers) if you want.
I'm not arguing that its cheaper, but it can be cheap. Especially if you factor in the long term health concerns.
People treat produce like its made of gold. "oh fuck me this banana costs $150.00 I better start saving!" "naah I can't save so I'll just buy this burger that will cost me $25,000 in cardiac care in 15 years"
Yeah it is the opposite here, local, organic, always more expensive. The bigger chains mark up "organic" food here, but it is still generally cheaper/on par with what you buy at the places that sell mostly organic/local goods. And the non local/organic stuff is always cheaper. I try to buy it when i can, and try to pay attention to where the food comes from at the big chains, but its hard. Like i said, we dont have any Whole Foods here. I live in Iowa, you can get corn dirt cheap the right time of year.
You can eat really cheap if you only eat double cheese burgers, you can eat really cheap if you only eat potatoes and cabbage, but to say it is cheaper to eat healthy is misleading. You can eat healthy, much cheaper than if say you went to a decent restaurant for every meal, absolutely, but that is going to be more expensive than living off the dollar menu, for sure.
One thing that actually WILL save you a LOT of money, is having a small garden, its pretty easy to grow some tomatoes, onions, etc and that shit will save you a massive amount of money.
Yeah it is the opposite here, local, organic, always more expensive. The bigger chains mark up "organic" food here, but it is still generally cheaper/on par with what you buy at the places that sell mostly organic/local goods. And the non local/organic stuff is always cheaper. I try to buy it when i can, and try to pay attention to where the food comes from at the big chains, but its hard. Like i said, we dont have any Whole Foods here. I live in Iowa, you can get corn dirt cheap the right time of year.
You can eat really cheap if you only eat double cheese burgers, you can eat really cheap if you only eat potatoes and cabbage, but to say it is cheaper to eat healthy is misleading. You can eat healthy, much cheaper than if say you went to a decent restaurant for every meal, absolutely, but that is going to be more expensive than living off the dollar menu, for sure.
One thing that actually WILL save you a LOT of money, is having a small garden, its pretty easy to grow some tomatoes, onions, etc and that shit will save you a massive amount of money.
I totally agree. Especially about the garden. I live in a condo and totally miss having a backyard. After WW2 my grandpa owned a farm in Arizona (yea of all places) when he sold it and moved up to Wash St he had a garden that was more like a small farm, which is what I remember. Corn, sun flowers, strawberries, blue berries, peas, lettuce, egg plants and probably more but I can't remember. I'd love to be able to do that some day.
It's interesting that you mention corn is so cheap, its the same way with apples, cherries and grapes. here corn on the cob is more seasonal and a bit of specialty item. You can get it frozen for dirt cheap but meh... tastes like crap right up there with out of the can, no thanks only if there is a zombie apocalypse.
Do people really think their 5 minute thought out opinion will be any good? We have entire bodies of sociologists who study this stuff and practically everything has been studied.
There I did the research for you. Eating poorly in the US is cheaper in money and time than eating healthily, however you define it. Period. There is no argument otherwise. Your hastily thought up anecdotes are worthless, as usual. Plus there is a serious lack of access in poor neighborhoods. Sure all of the posters in this thread can go to a grocery store with a decent produce section (despite it being expensive in comparison to less healthy food) but try to find a decent veggie section in most ghettos or poverty stricken neighborhoods and you won't find them. Some wilted iceberg and tasteless tomatos if you're lucky.
And unlike most people who suffer at the hands of inequality in the US, I had the option of moving abroad, which I did. And it was like leaving a cult. You can't realize just how fucked up of a country it is till you live outside it's influence and consume some less biased media for a while, and see how functioning societies that take care of the majority of it's population works.
Do I have complaints about Germany? About Iceland? Sure, but they are relatively minor in comparison.
Another fun US fact, every day, 200 people are raped in US prisons. Human tragedy? You decide.
Wages have stagnated in the US for decades, the poorest of people work 2 or even 3 jobs, every adult in the family. Even if you gave them outright for free fresh produce, meats, and dairy, where do they magically produce the time to prepare it?
Public transportation also sucks in the US, how does a poor person with no car get their groceries home? If the grocery stores with decent produce are not in their neighborhoods, do they just schlep a backpack of goods home every day?
I mean seriously, the privileged attitudes and upbringing of the average polycounter is staggering. You don't know what oppression even means, and you don't know what poverty is.
Damm you seem to have gotten a lot bullying in the states.
You moved away so why worry about it anymore and why confront people living happily
in the us and a with it if its none of your problems anymore.
This thread was clearly aimed at getting hostile reactions!
Replies
Yes. I was 102kg (226 freedom pounds) and now weigh 76kg (169 lbs). It coincided almost directly with when I left home and started having to feed myself.
Why?
IMO, the scale of what is considered obese is wrong. The U.S. tends to get high obesity percentages because the weight at which people are considered obese is wrong.
That being said, I know it's still comparing other countries using the same numbers, and the U.S. still comes up with a higher percentage. But, the way I see it, people in many other countries are too skinny, and to me, look unhealthy. Could Americans be healthier? Sure, but I don't consider a majority of them to be 'fatasses'.
And I do still think there are plenty of Americans pulling up their bootstraps and getting shit done. I just think there was a generation of laziness that we still have floating around the country
That sugar is unprocessed and takes more to convert. So technically, thats true. Realistically, they play out much differently in your body.
I have fruit smoothies once in awhile. Lets say instead of a smoothie, I had kool-aid with the same carbohydrate count.
Which do you think would stick around longer?
Here is more information for you Frankie:
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/ss/nutritionlabels_5.htm
They have the exact same problem as the overweights, altough its not caused by the fast food industry, its just as ill and they just need to eat more healthy.
Interesting read, this is a growing problem that need to be dealt with. People take a stand in your life and dont eat that shit stuff, excercise!
If you need more infomation look at the Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load of food, its important to factor in the load otherwise you can missinterperate the effect it will have on you.
Um no, the link doesn't. Im saying how it plays out in your body is different.
Here is your own information.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm
The levels are much lower on fruits.
Example:
Vanilla Cake Per serving 24
Apple Per Serving. 6
I fail to find correlation with your conclusion they contain the same amount.
I think if you have to blame some external factor blame the car culture. It's 5-10 miles to whatever, everything is spread out. The car is in many cases the only real way to get from one important point to another. Towns and most cities are built on this principle and as a result no one walks. But even that excuse is just that, an excuse.
I also think that people who have never been overweight are way to quick to judge those who are. It's not just the mental side effect of being bigger. There are some serious physical side effects that really do a number on someone.
People who have never been overweight also think that losing the weight is just as easy as never putting it on in the first place. Once its off, its more of a struggle to keep your body burning instead of storing. You're a fatty for life even if you're at a normal weight there are things that happened to your body that aren't normal and will always be persistent problems even if you maintain a normal weight. Things that a person who never puts on the weight will never have to deal with.
Once you create fat cells they're there forever. Like a storage lot, you can clean them out but they're hungry for whatever you can stuff in them. Add to it that as someone tries to starve themselves thin, muscle is the first to go. Muscle is the only way to burn fat. When you starve yourself your body stores instead of burns meaning exactly the opposite of what you need to have happen, happens. Any proportional change that takes place triggers this, so the idea that fatties just need to eat less makes them fatter. But that's what is preached at them all the time...
That works if you're not overweight to begin with, once you're there its a whole new game. Exercise more, eat the same proportions of food but eat things that aren't easily converted into fat. Once the muscle is built up you can then start to burn fat and reduce the proportions but the chances are that the person was eating normal proportions for someone who was active so they may not need to dial back the amount of food at all. They just need to keep their body burning fat and not eating muscle.
This, right here. Personal accountability = bootstrappy. Entitlement != bootstrappy.
The way that you can logically go about this without cognitive dissonance is either that they don't care or don't see it as a problem that they are fat, and feel that it would not be difficult to lose weight if they wanted to...or they feel they are fat by circumstance, and will be more capable of losing weight once their circumstances change.
It is MUCH cheaper and easier to eat only shit food, that anyone would try to argue that is just confusing....
That's very true, if you want a bowl of fruits from Ralphs its about 8 bucks.
just kidding
This was something I was going to include in my post but found it not relevant to the point I was trying to address to Poop. A lot of unhealthy food here in the US is either cheaper, quicker, or both cheaper and quicker to procure than its healthier alternative. Beer, Soda, and Grape/Orange Drink (not juice) are often much cheaper than bottled water or actual juice, and like you pointed out, fast food is far cheaper and quicker to get than prepping a healthy meal yourself. Time and money are valuable things to people who don't have much of either.
I was thinking the same. This year, I've tried changing my diet for lunch. Rather than getting the Marie Calendar microwave lunches, I've started making a deli meat sandwich and having fruit as a snack. My wife started joking about how expensive I was, because it was costing more to get the fruit and meat than it was to get 5 microwave meals.
Damn Hippies...
I understand that very well. I'm aware there is a system that produces fat people in American unless an individual manages to rise above it despite the odds.
I had another post a few above that one that resolved the cognitive dissonance.
I feel an important point is this. from wikipedia.
Insulin is a hormone that has extensive effects on metabolism and other body functions, such as vascular compliance. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen in the liver and muscle, and stopping use of fat as an energy source.
with the key point being "and stopping use of fat as an energy source."
I think a constant presance of insulin in your body will keep you fat and make fat accumlate in places you dont want it.
I think information like you present is perfectly valid in a discussion like this. I agree btw that fat is thought of as fat, when there are many different types. Some good, some bad. The idea is to have balance in a diet (Imo).
Well I agree with you but the problem is that most people over weight (or starting to go) in general don't do ANYTHING to tackle their problems, of course there is some that do and kudos and good luck to those, but I hate the people complaining and blaming others about their situation and is doing nothing them self to get better or whatever. Of course there are people genetically getting fat easy and well that just sucks for them like any other disease.
It almost forces you to drive everywhere!
Probably the high school football stars versus fat nerds thing and resulting frustration feeding could also be a reason.
This is my guess via internet and television so its highly speculative ^^
When I said accumliate in places you dont want it I meant places like arteries not giving you a fat arse.
I completely disagree. I think a majority try things, but the problem is, they are so easily discouraged and they stop. Just like Vig mentioned originally, it's not as easy to take off as it is to put on and many overweight people don't have the resilience they require. That doesn't excuse their condition, but it's false to state that they don't to "ANYTHING".
1 potato at Mc Donalds might = a large box of fries and cost the same amount as a 5lb bag of potatoes in a gocery store.
Take your pick, fat and grief for one meal. OR 15 potatoes you cook that are lot healthier and CHEAPER. They also last a lot longer than a box of fries... which is good because you don't want that much starch every day even if its wrapped in iron and vitamins.
Here are some common produce items I get for snacks side dishes and meals.
5 - Golden Delicious Apples 0.45 - 0.55 lb $2.47
1 - Lettuce Green Leaf Each $1.29 (5-7 salads)
2 - Cucumbers Each $0.69 (these go on the salads)
1 - Onions Green Bunch Each $0.69
1 - Pepper Bell Orange Each $1.99
1 - Peppers Bell Green Each$0.69
1 - Peppers Bell Red Each $1.99
1 - Russet Potatoes 5 lb Bag Each $1.89
Total: $14.64
The added cost to make meals out of this for a week is marginal. Probably 30-40 bucks if you add meat to every meal. Much less if its just rice, beans or pasta.
The cost to eat at McDonalds every day of the week 2 meals a day. $50.
"Why eat healthy its just going to break the bank" is a flawed argument. The heart attack at 35 is going to break you're bank a whole lot more...
Factor in the actual medical and health related costs of eating at McDonalds also and you're in a whole world of hurt, which ironically is where we are at with the health care debate...
They gain it back plus a little, which means more fat cells that never go away, just empty and they probably lose more muscle mass. Muscle mass is the first to go when you starve, its the key ingredient in burning calories and keeping your body from storing.
I bet if you talked to a few overweight people they would tell you the #1 thing they are working on is losing weight. They probably think about it constantly and try all the time to lose the weight but the info that's out there and the way it's viewed actually help make them fatter.
So the idea that once they lose the weight they are "normal" and can eat normally is total crap. They're going to have a much harder time keeping the weight off than someone who never put it on.
Being fat at any point in your life will have sever consequences later. You need to stay active for as long as possible and more than normal people who never put on the extra weight. At some point age will catch up to you and those hungry fat cells will fill up again its just a matter of time and how long you can put it off.
I don't know if this is a valid arguement, Vig. Eating out is always going to be more expenseive than cooking for yourself. A $5 footlong sounds like a good deal until you realize you could spend slightly more on the ingredients in the grocery store and eat 5 sandwiches.
Sometimes you don't have the option to cook for yourself. Going from work to night school, etc. I'm 20-25 pounds overweight and I've gained it over the last 2.5 yrs from not exercising. It's hard to find time when you work a full-time job, are taking graduate classes, and are trying to balance home life/chores.
Does being 20 pounds overweight totally negate the hard-work and effort I put into academia, house and home, and hobbies and make me a lazy fuck? I may be fat, but I'm not lazy.
Threads like this make me thankful for the ignore list.
Now you could eat a double cheese burger every day for ever meal for a weak, and spend $15. Like i said, if you want to eat SHIT, it is cheap, cheaper than fresh produce, and what you have there aside from the lettuce and potatoes, is likely only enough food to make meals for a couple days, or only lunch. So if you mean eating potatoes and cabbage is cheap, well, yes it is.
The health concern is a very valid point, but for someone who would eat McD's every day, probably not the foremost concern.
Maybe locally grown grapes instead of pineapple flown in from Hawaii.
Maybe locally grown cherries or apples instead of bananas from south America.
Maybe hit up a produce outlet instead of a high priced grocery chain.
Point is you can eat cheaply and be healthy its take a bit more work than going through a drive through. The idea that eating healthy breaks the bank is bunk and an excuse for people to keep to their shit eating ways.
As for the health concerns you're also more likely to get a bacteria related illness or a parasite, eating at a place that has so many hands in the food chain and I'm not just talking about the people in final assembly. There is a huge industry that puts that crap together before its reheated and served. That industry is prone to error and horribly flawed. When and if something goes wrong like it has in the past its too late, people are already sick.
The less hands on your food, the closer to whole it is the better chance you have of being able to avoid some like that.
I love to hit up farmers markets etc when the weather is good, and we have Co-Ops here, but you're talking about a 25% markup min to buy local/organic goods.
I'm also mildly amused to see this thread turned toward dietary discussion. My current kick is yogurt. I have taken a liking to eating yogurt for breakfast every morning. It's only 80 calories, and it settles my stomach better than most other breakfast foods. I'm also able to get yogurt with little chunks of fruit in it. (which I assume is good for my health) It's a bit bland at times, but tasty enough. And the fact that it settles my stomach nicely is important. Other breakfast foods like cereal, or even eggs and bacon, leave me feeling hungry in a few hours. A single container of yogurt has my stomach docile until lunchtime.
I go past the local fast food chains and see families eating there, they are spending, depending on the size of the family, close to £20 for one collective meal. The same amount of money could get them through half a week of meals. Theres a lack of education when it comes to home cooking, that has stemmed from convenience. Some people don't like cooking, and would rather be doing something more interesting. Some people are very fussy eaters and don't eat anything else apart from potatoes, pasta and easy foods.
eating out versus dining in
http://www.cockeyed.com/science/eating_out/mar1.html
http://www.cockeyed.com/science/eating_in/feb1.html
[ame]
Maybe its different where you're at, maybe I live in a small farm friendly state, but local produce is actually cheaper at produce outlets. The chains grocery stores that that sell the exact same local produce mark it up and sell it as a niche item. But you don't have to pay the mark up and you don't have to buy local, you can go cheaper (and hurt local farmers) if you want.
I'm not arguing that its cheaper, but it can be cheap. Especially if you factor in the long term health concerns.
People treat produce like its made of gold. "oh fuck me this banana costs $150.00 I better start saving!" "naah I can't save so I'll just buy this burger that will cost me $25,000 in cardiac care in 15 years"
A: He doesn't live here anymore.
B: He has had positive things to say about where he now lives (Germany).
Vig, there is another factor in this (beyond the time to create). The energy to cook or chill the food is already in the cost of the ready meal. How much does that add to the home meal?
Also, there is the idea of the supermarket processed "home meal/can". Ready to eat versus just restaurants alone.
talk to some seniors who ate healthy their entire life and are still stuck with meds because age caught up to them. Now imagine what the fast food generation is looking at...
A lot of produce actually keeps just fine out in the open at room temp. Some of it actually goes bad really fast if you cool it off, like bananas.
The cost to run my stove for 30min is a lot less money and impact on the environment then it is to run the stove, pay the people, and light the building at McDonalds. Whats the environmental cost of the hidden industry that trucks around and processes all the ingredients. What about the raising of the cattle in huge slaughter houses? What about the over fertilization of barren land just to grow enough potatoes and wheat?
Yeah it is the opposite here, local, organic, always more expensive. The bigger chains mark up "organic" food here, but it is still generally cheaper/on par with what you buy at the places that sell mostly organic/local goods. And the non local/organic stuff is always cheaper. I try to buy it when i can, and try to pay attention to where the food comes from at the big chains, but its hard. Like i said, we dont have any Whole Foods here. I live in Iowa, you can get corn dirt cheap the right time of year.
You can eat really cheap if you only eat double cheese burgers, you can eat really cheap if you only eat potatoes and cabbage, but to say it is cheaper to eat healthy is misleading. You can eat healthy, much cheaper than if say you went to a decent restaurant for every meal, absolutely, but that is going to be more expensive than living off the dollar menu, for sure.
One thing that actually WILL save you a LOT of money, is having a small garden, its pretty easy to grow some tomatoes, onions, etc and that shit will save you a massive amount of money.
It's interesting that you mention corn is so cheap, its the same way with apples, cherries and grapes. here corn on the cob is more seasonal and a bit of specialty item. You can get it frozen for dirt cheap but meh... tastes like crap right up there with out of the can, no thanks only if there is a zombie apocalypse.
http://www.google.de/search?q=poor+eating+cost+more&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
There I did the research for you. Eating poorly in the US is cheaper in money and time than eating healthily, however you define it. Period. There is no argument otherwise. Your hastily thought up anecdotes are worthless, as usual. Plus there is a serious lack of access in poor neighborhoods. Sure all of the posters in this thread can go to a grocery store with a decent produce section (despite it being expensive in comparison to less healthy food) but try to find a decent veggie section in most ghettos or poverty stricken neighborhoods and you won't find them. Some wilted iceberg and tasteless tomatos if you're lucky.
And unlike most people who suffer at the hands of inequality in the US, I had the option of moving abroad, which I did. And it was like leaving a cult. You can't realize just how fucked up of a country it is till you live outside it's influence and consume some less biased media for a while, and see how functioning societies that take care of the majority of it's population works.
Do I have complaints about Germany? About Iceland? Sure, but they are relatively minor in comparison.
Another fun US fact, every day, 200 people are raped in US prisons. Human tragedy? You decide.
Public transportation also sucks in the US, how does a poor person with no car get their groceries home? If the grocery stores with decent produce are not in their neighborhoods, do they just schlep a backpack of goods home every day?
I mean seriously, the privileged attitudes and upbringing of the average polycounter is staggering. You don't know what oppression even means, and you don't know what poverty is.
You moved away so why worry about it anymore and why confront people living happily
in the us and a with it if its none of your problems anymore.
This thread was clearly aimed at getting hostile reactions!