And now Pandemic Studios goes down!!
EA is not done yet.. Looks weird. They don't care what massage are they sending out to those who yet have to take Games as their full time profession.
I dont think that its going to be good in near future. Almost an alarming situation for freshies. ironically, I just have been contacted by an EA recruiter for a job.. :P I dont think i will get it if 1700 EX EA vets are already there..
I dont think that its going to be good in near future. Almost an alarming situation for freshies. ironically, I just have been contacted by an EA recruiter for a job.. :P I dont think i will get it if 1700 EX EA vets are already there..
Replies
Best of luck to everyone
la times - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-pandemic18-2009nov18,0,7295227.story
kotaku - http://kotaku.com/5406830/confirmed-ea-closes-pandemic-studios-says-brand-will-live-on?skyline=true&s=i
sucks, sorry to any affected
why would anyone refuse industry work?
because the fear of losing your job within 3 months or to some outsourcing junk in india or china might scare a few people to keep it small or keep it indie now days?
Yeah that would work if you don't want to get bought out by a comapny like EA,but what about people that are looking for work? would you actually turn down working at EA just because your scared your gonna lose you job?
Sux pandemic got hit. Was one of my favored companies.
Yes I would. Normally I can understand why a company does layoffs and has to do them, but EA is the worst at it (worse then MS maybe?). To me this doesn't look like a business decision but rather continual stupidity and lack of common sense. People like to bash on Activision this year but in comparison to what EA has been doing year after year to us? It doesn't even hold up to ATVI at all.
its happened to some good people I know this year but its just the nature of things.
so who wants to go to law school with me?
Take away the guitar hero brand and you'd see ATVI treating their employees the same way as EA.
Is it so rediculous for me to think that the games industry is currently being targeted as a quick turnover investment for rich folks?
NOT necessarily to actually finish and release an IP either, but simply be brought with a 2 - 5 year plan to sit on, and as soon as the time is right, pull out.
Sell up, make your coin back, take all / any projects / IP's and sell those on, and walk away leaving donzens / hundreds of people out of a job, but a couple of exec's loaded with cash.
I'm obviously making it sound like an easy thing to do, but thats what seems to be happening...any thoughts ?
I don't know about a quick turnover, since any good investment strategy is about managing risk over the middle-to-long term, but you can be damn sure that the industry is seen as 'safe' in terms of risk considering the growths in consumer-level technology and typical demographics, and that potential buyers are awed by the possibilities in terms of return on investment.
Its not that strange it has been going on in other industries for decades.Yes it makes a few folk very rich at the expense of others. Hope those that are out of work land on thier feet again.
This industry is alllll about 'what have you done lately', it seems like it barely matters if your studio made a huge hit a year or so ago, if your latest release is a flop, then suddenly your company loses stability because it hurts the publisher's investors. It's certainly made my mentality less about 'is this a fun team and project to work on?' and more about 'will this project sell or not?'
Actually I think this is the right attitude to have, yes you make games because you love the job but dont get carried away... Anything that involves money brings along with it the words productivity, profit/loss, commercial viability and the rest.
making money is less about creativity, loyalty and etc when it comes to listed companies . Indies are perhaps a little more forgiving but the rules still apply.
Yep I would. In fact, at the moment, I gave up trying to get into the "real" game industry (I work in the serious games/simulations field) simply because at the moment I know I have job security here.
Got kids?
Yes, this will eventually happen. I feel that way now. I wouldn't work for those companies.
Saboteur was way over budget and delayed, Mercs 2 was incredibly delayed and I don't think it performed well, and Dark Knight was cancelled.
I don't think that is a recipe for profitability.
I hope everyone lands on their feet ok.
I currently run a mod team full of hopeful friends. As a group, our ambitions are to come out of this project with a better chance to get a job - better portfolio, more knowledge, group skills...etc. I however really don't want to bullshit my friends, this industry is our collective dream.
So to those more acclimated with industry turmoil, what would you assume the 2-3 year forecast to be?
As much as I enjoy Mass Effect and Dead Space, I would not work for EA or an EA-owned developer. With no disrespect for those that do work there (you gotta do what you gotta do), I simply refuse to support their ongoing corporate misbehavior.
More downsizing, less hiring, more competition between vets and students (maybe not though I have seen companies hiring lots of students just for temp cheap labor.)
More temporary positions, and smaller full time core teams.
As i'm already underwater with employment opportunities, unlike many of you i'm sure. I am broke as a joke. Not to mention it came at a point where some of my industry friends, sent me money so I could buy some food. Because local retail and other employment opportunities are now stuck for only experienced individuals. I was literally turning into Christian Bale from "The Machinst" film (not kidding at all).
Regardless if this industry is in the tank, I think it deserves it (to some degree). I mean, yeah it's one thing if you are making a AAA title and it does well. But there are just soo many overdone games with hardly any new ideas, and evolutionary designs that it just comes off like a joke with a bad laugh.
As the last time I recall the industry taking a leap into new design+engine tech, and evolving the ways games being played was back when "Half-Life 2" was shown at E3.
Don't get me wrong, it's still happening, but today it's about the quick profits. Almost disgusting to a degree where I see competition more as a factor for all studios, rather than focusing on making the game that works. I don't think it's just me, but back in 05' & earlier it was more like everyone was working for discovery of something that works, and fun to play. Now it's all about the money, and a cheap spend for some outsourcing that keeps more out of work.
In the end, no matter what all you experts say. Outsourcing will kill the US Gaming industry. Because this time, the small stuff does need to be sweated.
Damn that felt good
thus the industry is shrinking? or should I move to India?
...or should i goto college for something more practical than fine arts?
No, this industry is not seen as "safe" at all. It's one of the most high risk industries that exists, with failure rates through the roof. This is why it's so hard to get game funding outside of publishers, because few are willing to tolerate the MASSIVE risk of working and selling games.
1 game success pays for 10 failures. I don't know why you would ever get the impression that we're in a safe business.
You want my advice? You and your team of friends should all grab a copy of UDK, and start working on "modding" up your own small title. Sell it on Steam, and split the profits. It doesn't matter if you hit it big, as long as you learn plenty. If you can get a game, even a small one, published on a digitial delivery service, that qualifies as a shipped game. And that looks good on any resume.
Moreover, if your game does see a decent return on investment, you and your friends could just start working on another effort of the same ilk. Maybe take part-time jobs to pay the bills, and spend the rest of your time developing your own games. The tools now exist that will allow you to strike out on your own. And the earlier you can get into this, the better.
If you would prefer to do things "your" way, instead of being slotted into a major corporation, then you have to do it on your own. It's not as reliable, but these days, the difference in security is becoming more and more negligible.
Shrinking might be the wrong word. Its simply cutting out dead weight and trying to restructure itself into a business that makes money, not hemorage it. Were commercial artist, this is how it works. If you dont make back more than what your payed, then your dead weight. Ofcource innocent people will always get caught in a cross fire.
I agree with jeff.
@ Richard: for the last month or so we entertained the idea of the mod - and when UDK was released we all kind of felt this calling, like we stumbled upon the idea at just the perfect time. So we are taking that route, with potentially selling our product on steam, definitely.
But I'd love to have a slot in the corporate game world, if only i could support a wife and cacophony jr.
1- Days are gone when Passionate Artists/developers were THE PRIMARY ASSETS of a game developer.
2- Money Laundring is definitely happening in Games now the way it happens in Film Industry and some other entertainment industries. MF2 is the most recent example. compare its sales to this weeks US box office charts. In fact its a safer play ground because of less legal obstacles, less regulation, Almost no "labor union" (sadly!! Labor=we the people :P) and No Forum for Employer<>Employee dialogue/negotiation on terms and conditions.
3- Professionals (Artists/developers) are equal culprits. We try to live a dream of living a life of a traditional artist. We are not traditional artists. We have employers. We cannot display our work in a gallery where people can simply come in and buy. We MUST have necessary knowledge of legal terms/rules and regulations involved in our jobs. We must have skills to analyze our employer's real situation. Our passion is being misused by our non-passionate Employers.
5- We are being abused in the name of Economics. We should have a basic charter, at least some demands as employees. ONE OF THOSE MUST BE PARTNERSHIP.
6- Game industry has no Labor union (I am not a socialist). But we need a forum. We need sincere and courageous leadership from within our community.
haaaaaaaahh.. Kill em alllllll............... I have cooled down a bit now
*raises hand*
Continued chaos. More and more art being outsourced overseas. Downward pressure on wages, at least on the art side. A few megahits in the industry, and general evolution of games. And oddly enough, maybe a continuing flood of people trying to break into the industry despite over-competition for jobs and possibly lower wages. Lots more indie games (although not many folks will make any money going the indie route).
you run that risk at ANY job you pick. games or not. not so much outsourcing, but you can lose your job in a week no matter where you go. its part of life
I was referring to the perception of video games as a reasonably safe investment opportunity from the perspective of corporate investment in publishing, not necessarily developers. Obviously some upper-middle class suit with an IFA isn't going to consider investing in video games as a viable opportunity due to the sums of money involved, and the risks inherent to the business that would make individual investors extremely unlikely.
Also, given the fact that Pop Cap recently secured over $22m in venture capital investment funding, I'd say that video games are definitely seen as a viable investment opportunity - safe is always a relative term in regards to risk management.
Pretty upset to see yet another studio go down hope all are well and starting a new position hopefully long-term.
You think EA bought pandemic for a whole bunch of cash, just so they could spend their upkeep for a few years before just shutting them down? No, but the economy is in the toilet, they HAVE to save money, or else the whole thing goes to hell. They need to cut down on staff, they have to start somewhere. Its probably one of the shittiest jobs you can have, deciding whose life to fuck up, but it has to be done. Its business. Its not always nice, but it has to be done.
The publishers are not santa claus, they can't keep everything running. As someone said, this is a high risk industry. People are always talking about how its sad for talented people etc. Yes. ofcourse it is. But there are MANY games made by many devs that are sloppy, original, and just plain stupid. So many simple mistakes being made. On the ground level, by the devs. Does that mean it gives you the right to fire them as you please? No, but when a company is running at a loss for say.. 5-6 years in a row. And you got a whole bunch of those. They all had a few chanses each to deliver, and you big holiday hit gets taken out by another juggernaught game. What are you gonna do? You need to start cutting somewhere.
I'd also like to remind people that games still have it better than film. In film you get hired on a 6-12 month contract, you stay through that, and then you have a likely chance of starting the job hunt again.
Case in point: Activision floods market with music games, music games start selling poorly due to the oversaturated market, and Bobby Kotick makes 37 million dollars selling off Activision stock before investors realize what's going on. What does he care about the health of his company? He just made 37 freaking million dollars on top of his already massive salary and massive bonuses. 5 years from now when Activision is crashing just like EA is now, will you feel sorry for all the executives holding axes?
How come when things go right it's the executives who made such fantastic great decisions, but when things go wrong it's because the devs make bad games? Isn't it the job of executives to prevent that from happening in the first place? The top level controls the bottom level, not the other way around. Yet somehow, the top level never has to take responsbility for anything. Oh right, that's because they're in control, and they have no incentive to care.
I wouldn't let it discourage you from seeking a full time position with a AAA studio. Most of this is just a natural outcome of a shitty economy right now. Ya it sucks but with anything that goes down it must come back up, and this econ will come back up. There is always demand for top talent in the industry. Question is how hard are you willing to work for it...
All this stuff about the fact that the bigwigs treating the industry like their personal playground, that's it's breaking its back on the downturn economy, no employee unions or regulated rights. It destroys the very ideals that we as artists stand for: Creativity and Passion.
I know, I know, the music and movie industry has very similar issues. Just now, unless you're a little indie, the lines have been so blurred between being an artist and being a hack.
THAT'S RIGHT KIDDIES, DON'T JOIN THE INDUSTRY! OTHERWISE YOU'LL END UP LIKE MEEEEEEEEEEEE...
I rather lose my job due to incompetence of not being able to do the job; versus fighting some dudes who beat me 5 to 1 person in quantity and price
yea anywhere you go there is a risk to lose your job but bigger places are just seeming more about punching the cash cow and as someone said earlier in here some people get stuck in the cross fire who are innocent
<-- 2 times in the same year
Thank god I have photography as a backup career, but even then..photojournalism is going down the hole as well.
I had finally found a friend who was also friends with the art director at Pandemic(Chris Hunt) and he forwarded my stuff to him a couple of weeks ago. I thought this was going to be my big break.
Now I know why I didn't hear anything back. Forget this! I'm gonna open my own gaming company, with blackjack, and hookers!