Character WIP - The Patient
polycounter lvl 9
Hey guys, this is my current WIP. This is for a long expired comp for the Australian game dev site Tsumea, but I'm dedicated to completing it this year. He's called The Patient and he's a comic book villain that would suit the universe of Batman or similar. He's riddled with disease and has a WIP backstory involving vengeance and going mad.
As you can see he's slightly deformed in anatomy but I think it gives him extra charater. I'm into the texturing but I'm rubbish with photoshop and I've hardly made human characters in my time. I'd like some feedback or ideas. I have no idea how to paint skin and face detail, especially since this guy has normal maps and AO crawling over him which is something I only just learned how to do. Everytime I try to think of what I was taught about low-poly texturing and detail in school, it clashes with all the rendered maps.
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As you can see he's slightly deformed in anatomy but I think it gives him extra charater. I'm into the texturing but I'm rubbish with photoshop and I've hardly made human characters in my time. I'd like some feedback or ideas. I have no idea how to paint skin and face detail, especially since this guy has normal maps and AO crawling over him which is something I only just learned how to do. Everytime I try to think of what I was taught about low-poly texturing and detail in school, it clashes with all the rendered maps.
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BACK
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Replies
Sigh, this is supposed to go in my folio. I've been working on it for over a year.
Here is the high res model and that's where the muscle detail seems to have remained.
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ARM
If it don't look good it don't look good. My country is firing people in studios by the bucketloads, I'm not good enough to get in even if I could put this stuff into my folio.
Don't be afraid to rebuild something because of the time and effort you've already put into it. You're locking yourself in. Discovering our mistakes is how we learn.
Destroying your own creation is part of the process. Study from those you admire and make another effort. Rinse and repeat about 10,000 times, and then some more.
I'm one of those idealistic kids you see around. Wants to make games but doesn't understand the real nature of it. Ever since I've been attempting to get into the industry, my art is a drain and not that fun thing I did in high school. I hate doing this, yet there is nothing else I'd rather do but play games. you can be like, "hey you can be an accountant," and I'd say, "no I wanna make games, I wanna make games, it's my dream to make games."
Yet it's like I struggle against myself just to do this, the texture page morphs into mumbo jumbo and the edgeloop just look broken. I applaud myself just for learning how to use zbrush this year, that about as high an accomplishment. I'd rather be a designer, I want to be like Hideo Kojima. But I've seen no way to get there without breaking into the art scene and building up from within.
But I'm just one of those hippy kids, just trying to make myself better feels like I'm 'working for the man.' You must get people like this all the time, I know how they should be treated.
What about level design or programming, something closer to the core design process? Perhaps this would be more suitable.
There are many roads. You just need to find your niche.
that being said, most people who are interested in this field of work also have the talent, and don't have to dedicate their whole life to being able to get their foot in the door.
realistically looking at this sculpt, and especially at your finished model, i would say that you are not necessarily as gifted right off the bat as what will be a lot of your competition.
that being said, if it is worth it to you to put in the time to make a career out of this, do it. but you have to consider, this is a dream career. a lot of people are living their dream by being a part of this industry, and if you want to treat it like an obligation instead of a privilege to be working in it, you're going to be shit out of luck when it comes to your peer's dedication vs. your own.
so ya, brutal honesty: you have a long way to go. if this is your dream, go for it man. if this is just a career to you, go do something else. good luck with your decision
take your retopologized model, project the details from the original, and create the normal map. your map will then fit your model, and the details won't be sliding around in the wrong places (like they are now).
for some reason, there is just a huge brain block for this step, just because it can seem like a huge pain in the ass, but it will take an hour or two at most. if you really worked on it all year, so what if it took 4 days to do this step?
I'll even link these for you:
First, do this:
[ame]
Then, do this:
[ame]
Then this:
[ame]
just skip the part where he adds the arms in maya.
all you need to pay attention to is the:
Retopology part
Projection part
(there's another way to project as you retopo, but it doesn't really matter. just do what he says and it works fine)
same here man, i'm still looking for work myself, it's kindof tricky right now.
And yes you probably should move onto a new character, BUT TAKE ALL THESE CRITS AND COMMENTS WITH YOU AND IMPROVE IN THOSE AREAS FOR YOUR NEXT CHARACTER (caps for emphasis).
If you really wanted to make character art, yeah putting in heaps of time on studies and practice is kinda painful (kindof), but it helps make the characters you want to make with much more profienciey.
Giving up may not improve your skillset much, studying things like proportions, anatomy, form, observing people and clothes in real life and practicing all those things will help.
Tho if you really don't wanna do this stuff, maybe try your hand at game design or programming even and see if they stick better (tho they require continual practice and improvement too). And no you don't have to migrate to design from art, you just need to know game design :P (google hourences)
Sorry if anything sounded kinda harsh, my original 2 posts were much harsher (stuff takes effort dude
edit: oh and some mini crits: proportions look off (try picking up some loomis books online), face feature placement is pretty funky too, try moving the lips up and making the eyes smaller. Lacking in form overall, try observing some photo ref of anatomy and get the basic 3d volumes down first. Also clothes look fairly mushy, try googling similar pants and coats to what you had in mind and check how the material acts in real life.
That's exactly what I did and that's how it turned out. Also I thought the strange proportions is what made him special. I didn't really care whether I did characters or not, that's what the comp was and I don't really know anything about making environments, even though I know there are more openings for them. Also, if I change my base mesh then I must also change my unwrap, which ruins the current diffuse map, that's on top of retopologizing my highres and fixing that. I know this stuff happen in the real job, but you get paid to do that.
Seriously I'm surprised at the support everyone is giving me now, I thought this would be abandoned once my emo talk started dribbling. I'm definitely an artist and not a programmer, not good with maths at all. And yes I'd rather be in design, I googled hourences stuff, I'm overwhelmed, I don't know what I'm looking at. It looks like level design but I know nothing about design at all. I put it in favourites so maybe one day I can reason with it. I considered at as away to progress because I like art and making art (for some dick reason I can't do it right, as I said 'fighting myself') so I thought 'do art then move up.' The only other thing I know is to be part of some free mod team or something, but I know nobody to work with or even how to design.
It is my dream to work in games, there is nothing else I want. I have my grand game ideas and I want them to be put in motion. But that makes me one of those 'I've got an idea!' kids who fail at even knowing how the industry works. Everything I read and everyone I know makes it sound like a career and not a dream. Doesn't help that I'm still paying back 20,000k for going to a game dev school that promised you'll get a job but then offers no support, except for the elite who got in and abandoned our projects half way.
*EDIT* I'm surprised and THANKFUL for the support being shown.
There is no easy way of doing this except getting on and doing it.
Alternativley, if you've got a really cool idea you wanna run with, try running with it. Might be a good way to learn all the individual jobs involved in making a game. If you're really into it, you'll probably be dabbling in design (mostly), and then art and programming to a limited extent i suppose.
Post what you end up with on the forums there and see if anyone's interested in your idea. Also check lot's of tutorials to help you learn. Design is more or less making a game fun (through level design, gameplay mechanics, other stuff i'm guessing too :P)
Anyways, stuff takes practice and heaps of effort, that includes starting over or starting new things all the time and trying again. And in a job (i'm guessing here :P) you get paid to make other people's ideas, rather than your own. You've gotta art direct yourself on personal projects and set your own standard of quality. Might as well set it high ^^
tldr: try mod work or making your own game
And i feel you on the game dev school thing, i'm still slowly making my way through mine
Geometry wars for Xbox arcade is a blast and it's 2d.
2d is easier to work with, easier to creat art assets for, and easier to program. A lot of game designers start this way or in level design as others have said.
There are mutliple paths towards your goal, if you're good at designing stick with that.
I'd say go with making a flash game that you designed, make the UI layout and everything, 2d graphics don't have to be awesome, even stick figures work for a fun game.
i'm going to have to disagree here, as i am working on a 2d rpg at the moment, i opted to do every single animated sprite in 3d, its probably 3 days less work for me to model, texture, rig and animate than it is to handraw something frame by frame, but then again i'm not really all that schooled in flash.
One thing every writer, every artist, every person has to learn, is the ability to scrap there own work in favor of something better, if thats what they ultimately want to achieve. First drafts are never published.
Its an unfortunate but nessecary skill.
Oh I know that. After a quick bout of manic depression from this thread I've decided: "Screw it, I'm going to finish it even if it is bad." I promised myself I would have completed this by the end of the year and that's a milestone it needs, I'll take it put it in my folio, and take my lessons and crits you gave me to make something better.
In regards, to design: I will take up the info you guys have given me and read into it. It is still something I am soul searching about, my ideas for design have never crept out of, "that big-budget AAA title that has x story, x characters, x gameplay that would be my dream to make." I have nothing of it but .doc files filled with gameplay and story outlines and sketchbooks filled with characters, environments and even a whole book dedicated to boss enemies that I drew in high school.
I will try and make something out of that, since it is the only thing giving me the desire to continue. I'll never make that game, if I never do what it takes to get in.
This is entirely dependant on the individual. Just as there are those who have a natural talent for 2D work but can't hardly manage to wrap their heads around 3D, are there tons of 3D artists who find themselves eternally frustrated by an inability to work up so much as a passable scribble. It all depends on what level you're hoping to reach, and what you're naturally talented in.
To the OP: I am pleased to hear that you're working to finish this. Even when projects wind up being crap, the experience is often incredibly worthwhile regardless. Failure, I think, is an all too necessary part of being an artist. To be a good artist, for me, at least - it requires you to look at your work, and one day be able to admit "This sucks. Not only does this suck, but goddamnit, it sucks ass."
And then be able to put all the hours, weeks, months of effort behind you, and do it again. If you work hard enough, and if it is what you're passionate about, it will eventually get better. I focus more on 2D, and I've been working on it off and on since I was a kid. Only in the past year or two have I really started to improve and start reaching levels where I noticed a lot of improvement. What used to take me 40 hours of solid work, now takes me 3 or 4.
I just tried a painting over this past night or two. And it sucks. The last one I did was pretty nice, and then inexplicably this one seems to suck and suck hardcore. I don't know how it happened, but it did. But I've got to nut it up, put it behind me, acknowledge that the hours of work has given me nothing but a perfect example of "what not to do next time", and try again. Depressing? Incredibly. Everyone who frequents these forums knows what it's like to work hard on something, only to post it up to the community, and have it torn down to bits or simply learn that most people just don't give a shit. I've thought to myself a lot "Who am I kidding, really. How can I hope to support my wife with my artwork, when I can't even come up with a fraction of the talent the professionals have in one finger even after hours of work." But posting again, and again, making sure to take something from every piece, is what boosts you up there. Failure is not an option, or even a possibility, for me. ...in the long run, at least. Up to that point, it's constant fail.
What I would recommend right now - don't worry about your portfolio immediately, it's too short term. Finish this piece, and if you're happy with it you're happy with it if you're not you're not. Work on your basics thereafter. Work up a few quick base models, some two hours sculpts and put them up here for everyone to see. If they tell you they're shit, you haven't wasted much time, try again.
Good luck to you.
It's part of learning. I've been learning 3D for close to 2 years now- and for the first 12 months I produced nothing I would consider showing another person because it blew. Now I feel I'm getting pretty good- and I'm getting good feedback. It's a process hat you have to just accept. Recognise when something hasn't worked, start over with a list of things to do better next time, and get back on the horse. And (this is hard) never stare up the mountain and get dispirited by how far you have to climb. One step after another and just think (my mantra) "In a year's time, when I look back, I can either look at all I'vr achieved or wonder where I'd be if I hadn't given up."
Good luck
~P~
Before I post some pics I have a question by which you may send me to another already established thread:
How should I render? My model was created in max2009 and currently has diffuse, normal, opacity maps, soon to have spec and probably bones. But I was taught to and am previewing all this through max itself, and although it does the job it does not do it that well. I got Marmoset, but naturally my model exploded. Thanks guys! I know you hate this model, and think I'm a waste of space, but it being finished is a good thing.