Off Limits - Russia

WesleyTack

Originally made for Nuclear Dawn by Robert Briscoe, Russia is finally 100% ready for Off Limits. It's went through a lot of playtesting and design changes over the past 16 months since I got it from Rob, for those interested I made a long post about what I've done to make it work for the Off Limits game play, you can read it here (there's also a walk-through video and more screenshots available in that post).

cholden

The original map was incredible, and a shame it was a part of ND. Taking all this time to breath life back into something so many people would have never had a chance to play is great! I also enjoyed the presentation page showing all the changes and work that went into it.

Joao Sapiro

looks really nice, altho a tad too cluttered, the mapUI altho visually pleasent is a tad confusing, like google earth with the buildings etc, just make it simple and in a way the player can get a feel of the room , like in MGS4 etc.

I also checked the screenshots of the before and after on the site and i dont want to sound like a douche, but i really prefered the before version, they had less clutter and the lightning was more dramatic, while the after pics it seems you only added visual clutter and uniformized the lightning example :







etc , but its still very solid job man , congrats on seeing it finished

WesleyTack

Actually the original map had more clutter stuff in it, all the corridors were narrower and a lot of small 8 unit corners or small narrow doorways you got stuck on. I made all the corridors wider because our fast game play made people bump into every corner / object. Now you can rush through the level without getting stuck on anything anymore (barely) and I added playerclips to stairs (making the flow on them smooth) and also 45° angle playerclips in small 8 or 16 unit corners (so you get pushed away form corners and not get stuck on them (very annoying during a battle)).

By making everything more open I agree the level lost it's dramatic look, and lighting is turned up a notch because it was hard to see players walking in a lot of areas (which isn't fun for game play).

To give you a quick example of 2 shots you posted:

1. This old area had on the left side 3 stairs going down very steep and when you walked down them because of their steepness you basically made a curve over them (not touching them) and bumping your head after each set of stairs on the ceiling, which wasn't fun when playing this part. So I had to make more realistic stairs (I use 8 * 16 units, they were 8 * 8. So I removed those stairs and made a corridor on the right side (wider and more open, less cluttered) and made the left side a drop down (you can jump over the railing)


2. I don't see why you think the after version is more cluttered, it clearly shows less obstacles in the way and has a more open game play path (again people got stuck on boxes and narrow passage ways in between them)



If there's one thing I've always hated when playing multiplayer games it's being killed because you got stuck on something within the environment. I made sure this wasn't the case in this level (and the other levels this mod has). For a skilled player the level works in their advantage and doesn't work against them (something I've seen some playtesters do a lot lately, making them very hard to kill)

Cyph3r

why are the before shots ALOT better? Im confused.

Xaltar

I would turn down your ambient lighting a tad. That will give back a lot of the lost depth.

whats_true

So, gameplay flow was improved dramatically, with the cost of that dramatic lighting and looks. Wouldn't it be a game play feature for the lighting to obscure people in some areas, hiding in the shadows type of deal? Idk, never played the game, so, not sure of how big of a problem it was~~

WesleyTack

Yes it would, some areas are still "darker", but I'll agree my lighting isn't that good in source (I hate the way it does lighting). I will do a quick pass/test with some reduced ambient lighting to see how it changes areas.

Darker areas in our game makes the glowing skeletons be a bit more difficult to see, so when a player knows this he could potentially hide in the dark while a Juggernaut passes him by. I'll definitely check it out (I wont however update all these screenshots anymore), but I will update it if it makes a big impact on the look

Frenzy

Loock cool ) I want play deathmach in this levels. xD i should advise you - add more rust, dirt , dust (because it is Russia xD) And it will look more realistic after adding a some fog.

Joshua Stubbles

That level with the generators is soooo based on the Eagle River Power Station
Such an awesome building.

Modifications look good, nice work.

Sa74n

glad to see this finally being released to public. great work on putting it into a proper surrounding. the choppers flying over the map is a nice detail.

i have to agree though that the lighting was a lot more dramatic in robs version.

did you give proper credit to all the other artists involved in the original map? i couldnt find anything. i'm sure rob can give you a list of the artists that helped him out with props and textures.

WesleyTack

I'm sure over a dozen people worked on it, I don't know who else worked on it tbh, I posted it on our site that whoever did work on it wants credits they should contact me. I just saw you did the spider tank model, I didn't know that either..

the lighting might need some work yes, maybe I'll ask Rob to do a pass on the lighting again since he's better at it then me

*edit*
(I do have a "team" page though with most credits on it,
I added you and phillip K (since you two are the only ones I know of today)
Either way, it's a project that's been going on for 6 years, I doubt every single person who did something for it will be there, but I tried adding most of them.
You can check the page here: http://www.off-limits.be/?cat=8

Sa74n

off the top of my head its jonathan smars, michael voeller, philip klevestav and myself who contributed to the map. maybe also tomislav spajic.

(regarding the spidertank, jonathan made the spidertank model and i textured it)

i know you didnt want to show off with someone elses work. you're way too good for that i just thought it's a matter of good manners to give credit where it's due.

i'm sure that if you get robert to do another lighting pass it will get the final bit of polish to really make it stand out. maybe you should give it another go yourself though. that's the best way to improve just look at roberts old light settings and placement.

WesleyTack

I give credit to everyone who helped out (which is why I added that team page on our new site a couple of months ago). I'll check out those names you mentioned as well

Sa74n wrote: »

i'm sure that if you get robert to do another lighting pass it will get the final bit of polish to really make it stand out. maybe you should give it another go yourself though. that's the best way to improve just look at roberts old light settings and placement.

I'm already doing this actually..
This is the latest "test" I've been doing, Rob's been giving me some feedback on MSN:



Still WiP of course, but I agree, I used too much overhead light sources that made the lighting look flat. I'm going to do some more updates overall tonight and tomorrow (I really need to get this level 100% done, cause Off Limits is more then just 1 level, I need to do so much more work and have no one else helping out on the mapping side of things). Maybe you want to help?
anyway, I'll post more updates of a new lighting pass the coming week!