While I don't really hold preferences toward one massive billion dollar software company over the other, Windows doesn't look like a giant fetal alcohol syndrome Photoshop (well, maybe Vista kinda does).
That said here's a list of things that anger me about those ads, besides the fact that they collect logical fallacies like Pokemon.
The people who are zealots for how easy Apple PCs are to use don't know shit about Apple before they were coating their computers in a rainbow of butt ugly late 90s plastic.
Saying that the Windows interface scares you because it has buttons and functionality doesn't make you cool, it makes you a goddamn caveman.
They expect me to side with that douchebag from Accepted over John Hodgeman? John Hodgeman wrote a book that dedicates a large portion of the reader's time to a list of 700 hobo names.
Those commercials are still, frankly, brilliant. They present the Mac as an equal to the Windows environment, and get people talking about it as such. They still have less than 10% market share (I think?) but they get a whole hell of a lot more consideration when buying a new computer. This is sort of the same issue scientists have with presenting 'intelligent design' at the same time as evolution: when you present only two options at the same time, the listener will tend to believe they have equal weight, even if one is just a fringe theory with next to no support.
The mac based network I helped manage had no antivirus until we had to start integrated some PCs into it, they started injecting infected word and excel documents into the system. While the macroviruses didn't affect the macs they did become carriers. I'm kind of happy I left around that time because the pcs were becoming a major headache.
I used to be an irrational hater like the rest of you guys until I had a choice of working on macs or flipping burgers. I'm not saying everyone here should go out and buy a mac (i'm running a homebuilt pc myself) but no one ever stops to think why Mac users love their platform and we begrudgingly like our PC platform at the best of times
But really, these commercials target the large masses of clueless users: The people who buy a PC, use it for a few years until it's horribly bogged down by viruses and malware, and then give it to their nephew or throw it away. Some of them are lucky and have relatives like us that fix their computers every year during holiday visits.
I'll tell you one thing I hate apple for, and this may sound odd, but I blame them for car stereos sucking (aftermarket and stock). With all the cool tech we have for screens, music storage / playback, gps, etc.. all the stereo companies haven't really updated their products for years, other than to add a goddamned ipod cable.
while the apple commercials tend to be well done/funny they tend to remind me of mud throwing commercials that you see durring election years. They just want to bash the compitition enough that you associate bad things with them. When they should be showing thier winning features.
I think all the mac and pc(windows) adverts are stupid. Mac is a brand, PC is a label. A label under which mac also falls(personal computer). You cant compare a brand with a label. Thats like saying a ford is better than a car or a sony bravia is better than a television. Its a pointless argument with no grounds in reality. Anyone who doesnt realise that a mac is a pc has just been duped by good marketing.
to be fair, the commercials are not about hardware. They are about the operating systems: Mac OSX and Windows.
Although calling the guys by those names wouldn't really stick, so it's simplified to mac and pc.
Mac OSX is highly ergonomic and robust, but when using professional applications all day like potatoshop it offers little difference to windows. I use Windows quite often on my mac, as it can do many things Mac OSX cannot. Running windows inside Mac OSX is funny.
that's what I meant, infinite click zone possibilities, yet only one is implemented in Steve Jobs infinite quest to eliminate buttons and functionality. Hopefully it will be fixed/upgraded/hacked on the software end...
I posted a picture of that, it has an option for secondary button set to right.
Mac mice are traditionally bad, but from their point of view, the operating system negates the need for a right click. The developers of Mac OSX are always trying to strip things back down to their basic needs. No hidden menus, no essential functions buried deep in contextual right clicks. The right click is something that wasn't designed into macs from the start and it's hard to justify a need, which only arises with more complex professional software like 3d applications or gaming software. The people who do this on the mac are most likely to buy a logitec or wacom like any other pc user.
I do love this though. I know Hawken your more just keeping it real versus a fanboy. B
heh yes I'm just offering my opinion as a professional using a mac. There's a lot of irrational mac hate on here, it's hard to put people straight without sounding like a fanboi sometimes.
I used to be an irrational hater like the rest of you guys until I had a choice of working on macs or flipping burgers. I'm not saying everyone here should go out and buy a mac (i'm running a homebuilt pc myself) but no one ever stops to think why Mac users love their platform and we begrudgingly like our PC platform at the best of times
I was a mac hater for years. I saw the hardware as slow and expensive. Until my HP spas-tastically died on me and a friend kindly gave me a spare mac. At first I wondered how I was going to get anything done. Turned out that all the annoying aspects on using windows are just not apparent on the mac.
Hey guys I too think the 'no need for right click anyways' justification is bogus. I use a macbook pretty much every day (OSX, not bootcamp) and I use the double-finger tapping on the trackpad basically every minute. Most Apple software design/UI decisions somehow can be fanboyized for this or that reason, but no one can make me believe that OSX apps are streamlined for 'no hidden menus'. Ever tried Itunes? Opera? Finder? Honestly I don't even know what keyboard button to press if I had to emulate right click hehe. Plus even if the mouse has two captors under on continuous shape ... it's still kinda stupid. Separated mouse buttons are COOL. :P
Also I tried that one mouse they released last week... it truly is horrible. Finger flicks on a sliding object ? Hehehe I really don't know what they were smoking this time :P Also their mouse DEceleration algorithm ... come on ... it makes twitchy, accurate mouse use a real, REAL pain. No software trick or fix out there completely removes it. Yuck!
Macbooks are still, by far, one of the best choice for media boxes / light work / web stuff. Rock solid.
Prior to emulate right click on the Mac you press control not to be confused with command. Mac blows cause Apple made them suck!!! But you can buy a real mouse with two buttons and a wheel and they seem to work fine. I have hooked up my mouse to my mothers Mac when I had to use and it seems to work fine. Right click even.
Expensive door stops thats what I call them, it's all thanks to Apple being the worthless pieces of crap that they are. You can only resize the windows how they want you to. Yup lower righ corner like the quicktime software. They are so cheap you don't have a text editor shipping with Macs now. I'm glad microsoft doesn't make PCs or things would be just as bad.
I hate both commercials, the I'm a PC, windows 7 it's because of me bs and Mac we are better... but whatever.
But you can buy a real mouse with two buttons and a wheel and they seem to work fine. I have hooked up my mouse to my mothers Mac when I had to use and it seems to work fine. Right click even.
Yeah it's this new fangled invention called USB. I bet the mac didn't waste your time by showing you a useless message telling you that you plugged in a mouse?
Expensive door stops thats what I call them, it's all thanks to Apple being the worthless pieces of crap that they are. You can only resize the windows how they want you to. Yup lower righ corner like the quicktime software.
who would have thought that was an issue. Never occurred to me before. Logically you would re-size a document from the lower right hand corner right? Mac OSX is not there to copy Windows. It has it's own heritage, that windows emulated.
They are so cheap you don't have a text editor shipping with Macs now.
Err, you mean like TextEdit and Pages, which ship on all macs?
Let's see word as part of windows and you have an argument.
Seriously, where do you guys make this shit up? Ignorance on a subject is one thing, but spouting it on forums? keep it to your self.
The apple mac is and has always been geared towards writers, and many hundreds of famous writers have been using them for decades right from Douglas Adams to Michael Crichton.
Yup that text editor looks good, what is this? I am 99% sure it's not on my machine. If we weren't talking Macs I would think it's a warez copy you are talking about here! Hehe.
I am interested, since another reason why I got a Macbook is to clean up lecture notes and such from the couch.
Hawk, dont get angry ... this thread has been impressively kept on rail so far. Are you really saying that, as a graphic designer yourself, you are okay with programs with no maximize button? As an end user I don't care who or what OS did it first - software patents seems flexible enough to let everybody have it. It's funny too, in Silo on the Mac, the green button does indeed maximize. But in Opera it 'auto fits for you'. On itunes, it switches to mini player ... but in Textedit, it does the regular maximize.
Now I understand that this button could be labled 'whatever-ing the window', but I find it baffling that whoever is in charge of OS features updates over there in Macland does not understand that such apparently tiny things are partly what cause genuinely open (non-fanboys) users to pull hairs.
This, the mouse deceleration 'feature', the Enter key renaming stuff instead of opening the file... It's all simple things they could open customization for, but it never ever happens. I don't care if it came first from Mac OS 1.2.0.6 or whatever, hence "has" to stay this way because the Apple scriptures say so : adding a 'OS behavior tweaks' panel in the system preferences would not hurt anyone, and would let folks like us really fine tune their machine. Snap if they want Win user to switch so much, they'd better let them at least perform simple tweaks to ease out the transition. Kindof common sense.
And that's one of the reasons why I would never feel comfortable completely switching to Mac. The OS (at least the user interface of it) seems very set in its very own ways for no reasons and does not seem to open much doors for customization and flexibility. Which is stupid, considering how elegant some of its features are ...
I wouldn't mind running some kind of reverse boot camp setup on my PC, but since Apple's such a bunch of cock-sucking blowhards about what you can put their OS on that I'd have to jump through hoops to make a hackintosh (I love the existence of that word). Granted, I have zero use for what the Apple OS offers and in general am not a huge fan of the differences in interface between Windows and the Apple OS (I refuse to call it whatever animal name their marketing has come up with), I'd still like to have that option available.
I sometimes wonder how much love there'd be for the Apple OS if it had to support a proper HUGE hardware bases like Windows does, cause I'm sure it'd still be as big an install as it was before the latest release (where they cut support for older hardware).
The reason mac OS is as stable as it is is purely because its made for specific hardware and doesn't need to be compatable with 10k brands of motherboard/ram/cpu/etc...etc...
That is Mac's major advantage over PC. I like using both, its like driving a porsche then driving a 1000 horse tuner, both are awesome fun but you can't put them in the same catagory.
You know , i learned something today...Its not about brands or fashion trends that allows us to use a computer to do our job, sure if i can do it on a mac why switch to windows and vice versa ? its all about personal choice and im glad apple exists otherwise my ipod wouldnt work.
Is it possible to bind certain keys/shortkuts to the gesture you make on the Magic Mouse? Im thinking about buying one and this thread seems to have some users on it(well... actually... only hawken as far as I can tell lol :P).
Id love to make a zoom in/out gesture for photoshop by splitting/joining your fingers on the mouse (my wacoms zoom thingies are broken ).
Mac OS used to come with a free text editor it was called simple text. Now I have to download a free one for the Mac because Apple doesn't think people need that. I guess people don't write html on Macs. without Dreamweaver or something similar. No it doesn't come with a word processor either.
My point with the mouse is almost anyone I have I have tested works, yet apple doesn't freaking include a useful one because again, it's easier on the user to control click than right click when using something like Photoshop. It's like working with your hand behind your back and being told if only you could right click. LOL
huuhhhhhhh? I'm going to call bullshit on the no TextEdit thing, that was pretty funny though. I tried to coach my mom into fixing something on her PC over the phone and she said it didn't have Internet Explorer: Windows doesn't come with a web browser!
Hawkin: I believe Pages comes with iWorks, you can buy OSX bundled with iWorks and it's a helluvalot cheaper than MS Office.
Heh, I recently got one of those mini aluminium keyboards for my desktop, and yeah it came with no delete key, had to use an app called Sharpkeys to hack my right alt into one. And F12 into print screen. But the thing feels so nice to type on, it's worth the hassle!
Yeah it's this new fangled invention called USB. I bet the mac didn't waste your time by showing you a useless message telling you that you plugged in a mouse?
It's more like Miss Cleo getting a vision.
"Wait I'm getting something, yes yes, its new hardware"
"I've decided this hardware is a printer, and yes I'm attempting to make contact and install drivers"
"Nope, not a printer. Would you like to tell me what kind of device this is and install a driver for it?"
Its a mouse. Here is the driver for it, straight from the manufacture.
"Driver not found for Foreign hardware 08997"
"Foreign hardware 08997 has been set on fire please do not plug this device in again"
"These actions require a restart. restarting in 10min"
Computer magically reboots after 5min, while you're extinguishing the flames of your new purchase.
"Windows has recovered from a serious error, please restart"
No sh!t I choking on toxic fumes thanks to you. Restart.
"Wait wait, I'm getting something, yes yes its new hardware I think its a printer..."
Oh crap I left the mouse plugged in...
what kind of crazy hardware do you use? Ever since XP windows has kicked tons of ass for me at automatically detecting, identifying, and installing drivers for all of my USB peripherals.
In fact I consider it pretty fantastic. Do you remember what it was like with serial devices? If you ever lost that damn floppy with the drivers you were fucked.
I didn't even realize that the second imagine (which is for the new mouse, of the three?) was from anything different than the first (formerly) mighty-mouse image on top. My bad.
It always really bothered me that if you didn't throw away...I mean "eject" a jump drive on a mac it would completely corrupt and destroy everything. That is quite possibly the most horrible thing ever. And even when you do properly eject it you get all these damn _ds or whatever duplicate files for everything on it for seemingly no reason.
Working on them in school (all illustration labs were mac only) was maddening for that. I eventually just started bringing in my laptop and working on it in front of the mac.
That's odd, I always thought the "eject before removing" was universal, I know vista has a bug with the U3 drives where it doesn't always eject it properly and it yells at me "yo dawg, you didn't eject your drive before pulling out, your shit might be fucked up!"
I also found out you can't look at LOLcats on Macs, true story.
after the hassles of getting all my recording software going on pc and getting completely dif results on several installs using the same hardware software and everything,, soon as i get some cash my studio is def goina be switched to mac, i'll prob still use pc for most things.. unless i like the mac. which i may, i dont know yet.
Replies
That said here's a list of things that anger me about those ads, besides the fact that they collect logical fallacies like Pokemon.
The mac based network I helped manage had no antivirus until we had to start integrated some PCs into it, they started injecting infected word and excel documents into the system. While the macroviruses didn't affect the macs they did become carriers. I'm kind of happy I left around that time because the pcs were becoming a major headache.
I used to be an irrational hater like the rest of you guys until I had a choice of working on macs or flipping burgers. I'm not saying everyone here should go out and buy a mac (i'm running a homebuilt pc myself) but no one ever stops to think why Mac users love their platform and we begrudgingly like our PC platform at the best of times
But really, these commercials target the large masses of clueless users: The people who buy a PC, use it for a few years until it's horribly bogged down by viruses and malware, and then give it to their nephew or throw it away. Some of them are lucky and have relatives like us that fix their computers every year during holiday visits.
I fucking HATE the mighty mouse. Fuck Apple and their stupid unergonomic minimalistic geometrically shaped bullshit everything.
to be fair, the commercials are not about hardware. They are about the operating systems: Mac OSX and Windows.
Although calling the guys by those names wouldn't really stick, so it's simplified to mac and pc.
Mac OSX is highly ergonomic and robust, but when using professional applications all day like potatoshop it offers little difference to windows. I use Windows quite often on my mac, as it can do many things Mac OSX cannot. Running windows inside Mac OSX is funny.
I posted a picture of that, it has an option for secondary button set to right.
Mac mice are traditionally bad, but from their point of view, the operating system negates the need for a right click. The developers of Mac OSX are always trying to strip things back down to their basic needs. No hidden menus, no essential functions buried deep in contextual right clicks. The right click is something that wasn't designed into macs from the start and it's hard to justify a need, which only arises with more complex professional software like 3d applications or gaming software. The people who do this on the mac are most likely to buy a logitec or wacom like any other pc user.
heh yes I'm just offering my opinion as a professional using a mac. There's a lot of irrational mac hate on here, it's hard to put people straight without sounding like a fanboi sometimes.
I was a mac hater for years. I saw the hardware as slow and expensive. Until my HP spas-tastically died on me and a friend kindly gave me a spare mac. At first I wondered how I was going to get anything done. Turned out that all the annoying aspects on using windows are just not apparent on the mac.
Also I tried that one mouse they released last week... it truly is horrible. Finger flicks on a sliding object ? Hehehe I really don't know what they were smoking this time :P Also their mouse DEceleration algorithm ... come on ... it makes twitchy, accurate mouse use a real, REAL pain. No software trick or fix out there completely removes it. Yuck!
Macbooks are still, by far, one of the best choice for media boxes / light work / web stuff. Rock solid.
Expensive door stops thats what I call them, it's all thanks to Apple being the worthless pieces of crap that they are. You can only resize the windows how they want you to. Yup lower righ corner like the quicktime software. They are so cheap you don't have a text editor shipping with Macs now. I'm glad microsoft doesn't make PCs or things would be just as bad.
I hate both commercials, the I'm a PC, windows 7 it's because of me bs and Mac we are better... but whatever.
(FUCK I tried dragging it in the text box and it disappeared with a puff of smoke wth)
Here it is again :
http://www.bit-101.com/blog/?p=2178
Yeah it's this new fangled invention called USB. I bet the mac didn't waste your time by showing you a useless message telling you that you plugged in a mouse?
who would have thought that was an issue. Never occurred to me before. Logically you would re-size a document from the lower right hand corner right? Mac OSX is not there to copy Windows. It has it's own heritage, that windows emulated.
Err, you mean like TextEdit and Pages, which ship on all macs?
Let's see word as part of windows and you have an argument.
Seriously, where do you guys make this shit up? Ignorance on a subject is one thing, but spouting it on forums? keep it to your self.
The apple mac is and has always been geared towards writers, and many hundreds of famous writers have been using them for decades right from Douglas Adams to Michael Crichton.
I am interested, since another reason why I got a Macbook is to clean up lecture notes and such from the couch.
Hawk, dont get angry ... this thread has been impressively kept on rail so far. Are you really saying that, as a graphic designer yourself, you are okay with programs with no maximize button? As an end user I don't care who or what OS did it first - software patents seems flexible enough to let everybody have it. It's funny too, in Silo on the Mac, the green button does indeed maximize. But in Opera it 'auto fits for you'. On itunes, it switches to mini player ... but in Textedit, it does the regular maximize.
Now I understand that this button could be labled 'whatever-ing the window', but I find it baffling that whoever is in charge of OS features updates over there in Macland does not understand that such apparently tiny things are partly what cause genuinely open (non-fanboys) users to pull hairs.
This, the mouse deceleration 'feature', the Enter key renaming stuff instead of opening the file... It's all simple things they could open customization for, but it never ever happens. I don't care if it came first from Mac OS 1.2.0.6 or whatever, hence "has" to stay this way because the Apple scriptures say so : adding a 'OS behavior tweaks' panel in the system preferences would not hurt anyone, and would let folks like us really fine tune their machine. Snap if they want Win user to switch so much, they'd better let them at least perform simple tweaks to ease out the transition. Kindof common sense.
And that's one of the reasons why I would never feel comfortable completely switching to Mac. The OS (at least the user interface of it) seems very set in its very own ways for no reasons and does not seem to open much doors for customization and flexibility. Which is stupid, considering how elegant some of its features are ...
I sometimes wonder how much love there'd be for the Apple OS if it had to support a proper HUGE hardware bases like Windows does, cause I'm sure it'd still be as big an install as it was before the latest release (where they cut support for older hardware).
That is Mac's major advantage over PC. I like using both, its like driving a porsche then driving a 1000 horse tuner, both are awesome fun but you can't put them in the same catagory.
You know , i learned something today...Its not about brands or fashion trends that allows us to use a computer to do our job, sure if i can do it on a mac why switch to windows and vice versa ? its all about personal choice and im glad apple exists otherwise my ipod wouldnt work.
Id love to make a zoom in/out gesture for photoshop by splitting/joining your fingers on the mouse (my wacoms zoom thingies are broken
My point with the mouse is almost anyone I have I have tested works, yet apple doesn't freaking include a useful one because again, it's easier on the user to control click than right click when using something like Photoshop. It's like working with your hand behind your back and being told if only you could right click. LOL
Hawkin: I believe Pages comes with iWorks, you can buy OSX bundled with iWorks and it's a helluvalot cheaper than MS Office.
macs don't have delete keys! cuz who really needs to delete anyway!
/rimshot
i think this is a race issue in hindsight......... white cases vs black cases....
"Wait I'm getting something, yes yes, its new hardware"
"I've decided this hardware is a printer, and yes I'm attempting to make contact and install drivers"
"Nope, not a printer. Would you like to tell me what kind of device this is and install a driver for it?"
Its a mouse. Here is the driver for it, straight from the manufacture.
"Driver not found for Foreign hardware 08997"
"Foreign hardware 08997 has been set on fire please do not plug this device in again"
"These actions require a restart. restarting in 10min"
Computer magically reboots after 5min, while you're extinguishing the flames of your new purchase.
"Windows has recovered from a serious error, please restart"
No sh!t I choking on toxic fumes thanks to you. Restart.
"Wait wait, I'm getting something, yes yes its new hardware I think its a printer..."
Oh crap I left the mouse plugged in...
In fact I consider it pretty fantastic. Do you remember what it was like with serial devices? If you ever lost that damn floppy with the drivers you were fucked.
I didn't even realize that the second imagine (which is for the new mouse, of the three?) was from anything different than the first (formerly) mighty-mouse image on top. My bad.
It always really bothered me that if you didn't throw away...I mean "eject" a jump drive on a mac it would completely corrupt and destroy everything. That is quite possibly the most horrible thing ever. And even when you do properly eject it you get all these damn _ds or whatever duplicate files for everything on it for seemingly no reason.
Working on them in school (all illustration labs were mac only) was maddening for that. I eventually just started bringing in my laptop and working on it in front of the mac.
if you unplug an external drive without ejecting it, all you get is a window with a warning on OSX.
mudbrush iz better than zbox!!!
pepsi iz better than coke!!!
360 iz better than ps3!!!!!
forza is the definitive game of the millenia!! gt5 can suck a dick!!!
who gives a shit? i have a pc and a mac, like both for different reasons, get over yourselves..
there is so much bullshit in this thread from both sides i just vomited and ate it so i could vomit it back up again.
This. I even threw up twice
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=522&name=USB-Flash-Drives
This corruption issue was still true as recently as OSX Leopard if I recall correctly.
I also found out you can't look at LOLcats on Macs, true story.
get out of town
that totally reminded me of this: [ame]
I'm an abuser of this: http://www.panic.com/coda/
which one did you used to post this?