It's a damn shame that piracy had such a negative impact on Iron Lore. There are probably many other developers hurt by piracy as well.
Lamont I really hope you can get Titan Quest working it's a fun game. I've got it working on XP32bit/Steam no problems, haven't tried Vista yet though...
I really love Steam and wish more companies would sell through them. I would say that Steam is the sole reason I started to buy and play games again.
For games that sell both through digital distribution and through retail stores I wonder what the sales split is between the two? Do people still really like to go to retail stores to buy their games these days? I sure don't, I prefer to have digital copies rather than physical copies of everything taking up all my living space. Also why support places like Gamestop? that are making most of their money through second hand sales of which developers don't even get a single cent.
But all of this is somewhat off topic. As for friends that pirate games, I suppose that after explaining it to them that the people/developers that make the games really do need their support, and they still continue to pirate then I would just find new friends. I would prefer not to have friends with such questionable morals anyway.
...@ Kat - Well if Titan Quest does online hosting/match-making for the game you should be able to compare the X-amount registrations vs, the Y-amount pirated versions using the service. Sorry to keep using this game as a example, but the 9:1 ratio of pirate:legal versions is really interesting. I can't even get the Titan Quest demo to run on my computer.
I just read through all the articles on TQ and IL and they seemed to have done a few things there that with hindsight, should have been nipped in the bud.
Addressing and dealing with the source leak; deleting any and all forum posts referencing the bent copy; found a way for offer purchase options to those logging in with pirated copies, and so on... I'm also not sure about his numbers... he says "Bioshock was selling 5 to 1 on console vs. PC." and says that equates to 90% piracy? Math was never my strong point but that statement simply says to me says that for every 5 copies of Boi sold on console; 1 copy was sold on PC, I don't actually see anything in that other than being told that consoles were a more popular format for that game.
So without checking his sources and the numbers, I'd say he doing what was mentioned above and 'projecting' losses by assuming the PC version should have sold as well as or better than the PC version. I'd like to know where that assumptive guaranty of sales comes from.
Anywho, the problem Fitch, and the games industry as a whole generally have now is that it's still relying on an old business model that has people paying up-front for their games - one could argue that because the DVD held the authentication system, it was that which gave the disk and game 'value' (without it you can't play).
Obviously pirating and digital distribution completely bypasses that and kills the inherent value of physical media stone dead because that's also so easily bypassed because its ostensibly client based.
But, rather than find ways to monetise this 'new' business model, the industry is still holding on to and trying to force the old up-front model which people no longer want, the antagonism and vitriol espouced by the biz isn't helping to find solutions to this either.
Personally, I do my best to avoid pirating, it's more trouble than it's worth imho.
I don't have many friends who do that actually, most are very supportive of the biz and buy all their games legit, the rare ones that do aren't close friends and aren't worth the argument. The worst is the people I've known who work IN the games industry but also pirate games...just a total lack of respect for your fellow working man or woman in your field.
Everyone pirates games here. It's what youth does. It's how it's been since before I was old enough to even know what pirating is. I remember, when I was like 9 years old, my older brothers brought home one of them fancy golden CDs that a friend had burned for them, with Virtua Cop and Frogger 3D and some other at-the-time-really-new games. And I'd happily enjoy all the new games while they lasted.
So, of course, as soon as people moved away from modems, everyone realized how easy and cheap it is to download anything you want. Entering the Napster era here. It's how my generation grew up, and it's only getting easier. Pretty much everyone I know, even barely, who's around my age or younger pirates games regularly. That includes me. I do have my standards, I do want to support good developers and the gaming industry as a whole, and I am of course trying to get back into it, myself, as a 3D artist. But some of the best games I've played in a while, like Mirror's Edge and Fallout 3, I did download illegally. I said "Wow, once I get a job and can afford, to, I promise, games, I will buy you, because you're awesome."
That was like a year ago, I still can't afford to actually pay for games. I found Mirror's Edge used for a quarter of the price I could've boguht it at back then, so even if I DO end up buying them, it won't do the companies much good. The prices drop so quickly, by the time I can afford them it doesn't really matter, financially. And in the same financial mindset, I have no qualms at all with downloading games that are older than, say, five years, or two console generations. I downloaded Black & White 2 the other day. Really neat game. Do you think Lionhead are still making any kind of money from that?
So yeah, people here pirate all the time. I don't think twice about it. I get a little sad when an entire office of people all say "So, yeah, we downloaded Fallout 3 one day before launch and it's AWESOME", but trying to convince these people to stop pirating is like trying to convince them to stop drinking. Although, it's not really the same people... The hardcore gamers never go out and get wasted with their friends, they have to stay at home to join in on those raids or whatever. So hey, if hurting the gaming industry ALSO hurts the alcohol industry, I'm all for pirating!
To sum up my thoughts on the topic, what to do when friends pirate? All I can really say is "eh". It's just as unlikely that I get people to STOP supporting the alcohol or tobacco industry as it is to get them to START supporting the games industry. So there's really no point in trying. They all eventually end up buying games, anyway. The first person in the office to download Fallout 3 actually bought Warhammer Online at launch, and as far as I know, still plays faithfully. The second or third to pirate Fallout has been subscribed to EVE Online ever since it started. There's always something people are willing to pay for, so it's not all bad.
If people respect the developers and download games to try them out if there's no demo or just to see if they are into the game or whatever to decide if they want to buy it. I think that's fine, unfortunately many people are not like that therefore the game industry does get hurt from piracy. And that will probably lead to everything being like steam were you just download it on a online account. Which is fine, but kinda is lame since I'm a real sucker for a physical PC box and manual . Which is why currently I buy more games in their physical form rather than getting them off steam for cheaper.
I remember when I was really young we had our rockin Windows 3.1 and ATI Mach32 GPU, and I used to buy those shareware CDs full of demos.
Ahhh back in the day.
Replies
Lamont I really hope you can get Titan Quest working it's a fun game. I've got it working on XP32bit/Steam no problems, haven't tried Vista yet though...
I really love Steam and wish more companies would sell through them. I would say that Steam is the sole reason I started to buy and play games again.
For games that sell both through digital distribution and through retail stores I wonder what the sales split is between the two? Do people still really like to go to retail stores to buy their games these days? I sure don't, I prefer to have digital copies rather than physical copies of everything taking up all my living space. Also why support places like Gamestop? that are making most of their money through second hand sales of which developers don't even get a single cent.
But all of this is somewhat off topic. As for friends that pirate games, I suppose that after explaining it to them that the people/developers that make the games really do need their support, and they still continue to pirate then I would just find new friends. I would prefer not to have friends with such questionable morals anyway.
Addressing and dealing with the source leak; deleting any and all forum posts referencing the bent copy; found a way for offer purchase options to those logging in with pirated copies, and so on... I'm also not sure about his numbers... he says "Bioshock was selling 5 to 1 on console vs. PC." and says that equates to 90% piracy? Math was never my strong point but that statement simply says to me says that for every 5 copies of Boi sold on console; 1 copy was sold on PC, I don't actually see anything in that other than being told that consoles were a more popular format for that game.
So without checking his sources and the numbers, I'd say he doing what was mentioned above and 'projecting' losses by assuming the PC version should have sold as well as or better than the PC version. I'd like to know where that assumptive guaranty of sales comes from.
Anywho, the problem Fitch, and the games industry as a whole generally have now is that it's still relying on an old business model that has people paying up-front for their games - one could argue that because the DVD held the authentication system, it was that which gave the disk and game 'value' (without it you can't play).
Obviously pirating and digital distribution completely bypasses that and kills the inherent value of physical media stone dead because that's also so easily bypassed because its ostensibly client based.
But, rather than find ways to monetise this 'new' business model, the industry is still holding on to and trying to force the old up-front model which people no longer want, the antagonism and vitriol espouced by the biz isn't helping to find solutions to this either.
Personally, I do my best to avoid pirating, it's more trouble than it's worth imho.
So, of course, as soon as people moved away from modems, everyone realized how easy and cheap it is to download anything you want. Entering the Napster era here. It's how my generation grew up, and it's only getting easier. Pretty much everyone I know, even barely, who's around my age or younger pirates games regularly. That includes me. I do have my standards, I do want to support good developers and the gaming industry as a whole, and I am of course trying to get back into it, myself, as a 3D artist. But some of the best games I've played in a while, like Mirror's Edge and Fallout 3, I did download illegally. I said "Wow, once I get a job and can afford, to, I promise, games, I will buy you, because you're awesome."
That was like a year ago, I still can't afford to actually pay for games. I found Mirror's Edge used for a quarter of the price I could've boguht it at back then, so even if I DO end up buying them, it won't do the companies much good. The prices drop so quickly, by the time I can afford them it doesn't really matter, financially. And in the same financial mindset, I have no qualms at all with downloading games that are older than, say, five years, or two console generations. I downloaded Black & White 2 the other day. Really neat game. Do you think Lionhead are still making any kind of money from that?
So yeah, people here pirate all the time. I don't think twice about it. I get a little sad when an entire office of people all say "So, yeah, we downloaded Fallout 3 one day before launch and it's AWESOME", but trying to convince these people to stop pirating is like trying to convince them to stop drinking. Although, it's not really the same people... The hardcore gamers never go out and get wasted with their friends, they have to stay at home to join in on those raids or whatever. So hey, if hurting the gaming industry ALSO hurts the alcohol industry, I'm all for pirating!
To sum up my thoughts on the topic, what to do when friends pirate? All I can really say is "eh". It's just as unlikely that I get people to STOP supporting the alcohol or tobacco industry as it is to get them to START supporting the games industry. So there's really no point in trying. They all eventually end up buying games, anyway. The first person in the office to download Fallout 3 actually bought Warhammer Online at launch, and as far as I know, still plays faithfully. The second or third to pirate Fallout has been subscribed to EVE Online ever since it started. There's always something people are willing to pay for, so it's not all bad.
Also, its kind of embarrassing to be just north of Mexico, not geographically, but on that chart considering GDP.
If people respect the developers and download games to try them out if there's no demo or just to see if they are into the game or whatever to decide if they want to buy it. I think that's fine, unfortunately many people are not like that therefore the game industry does get hurt from piracy. And that will probably lead to everything being like steam were you just download it on a online account. Which is fine, but kinda is lame since I'm a real sucker for a physical PC box and manual
[ame]
I remember when I was really young we had our rockin Windows 3.1 and ATI Mach32 GPU, and I used to buy those shareware CDs full of demos.
Ahhh back in the day.