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I suck at concept art

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ZacD ngon master
I'm trying to improve my general game art skills, I've never been great with photoshop and actually fleshing out sketches and ideas. Attempted making a sword, turned into a dagger, spent too long on this, probably about 1.5 hours.


2qv8pb9.jpg

More pieces to come.

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  • Sage
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    Sage polycounter lvl 19
    Spending almost two hours on something isn't that long. Looks nice
  • bugo
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    bugo polycounter lvl 17
    you NEVER need to do concept if you dont like doing it, if you can express yourself drawing is what it matters, ofcourse trying doesnt kill anyone, which is good what you are doing. That looks alright. Keep trying more. Look at shapes and silhouete always first! And then details later.
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    Yeah two hours isn't that bad for something that's at least easy enough to read. The key is just to study. You don't have to do page after page of referenced studying, you don't have to do 5,000 pages of 30 second gesture studies or anything of the sort, you just have to analyze the problem, find a solution - implement the solution.

    You'll get it, but do keep at it. I remember when I first started out, it would take me three or four hours to do something that now can be done in 10 minutes. What used to take me 30 hours of trying, redoing, etc, now takes me 2 hours. And I've still got a hell of a long way to go.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    bugo wrote: »
    you NEVER need to do concept if you dont like doing it, if you can express yourself drawing is what it matters, ofcourse trying doesnt kill anyone, which is good what you are doing. That looks alright. Keep trying more. Look at shapes and silhouete always first! And then details later.

    I never said I didn't like doing it, its just painful sometimes working with it. A lot different than painting in real life looking at a still life, or sketching in a note book.

    did 3, 10 to 30 minute sketches this time trying to get an idea for a scene to go with the sword, developing concepts for the scene and then modeling them, trying to get a real work flow going, fluff out my portfolio.

    Baggy clothed spy, the arm is really bad on it, just noticed that
    Tavern, trying out a sketch style, guessed on the perspective.
    Weird armored monster?

    xd5qgw.jpg
  • Tom Ellis
    In my opinion, that all looks fine for concept art, it gets the concept across which is what it's supposed to do!

    I feel the same though, I always see some awesome art on here then go draw/paint stuff and think 'Wow, I suck' but one thing that I've had to tell myself is that 'I am not a Concept Artist'! Obviously someone whose sole job is to create stunning pieces of artwork to pitch game ideas would have to put out top quality work, but as a 3D Artist, I think the ability to get across clear ideas is far more important than visual beauty.

    Unfortunately there are some extra talented dudes who are just amazing at everything, like those kids at school who would be top of the class as well as captain of all the sports teams. Although I'm sure the only thing that has got those people to where they are is a LOT of practice.

    You'll notice a lot of studios who offer employment advice state that 2D and concept art skills are 'beneficial or preferable' and I honestly don't think a company would throw your reel or resume in the trash because you're not Van Gogh if you see what I mean.

    The dagger at the top looks great and all it needs it a little more time spent on the blending, especially around the handle, and you'd be on for a good looking little concept.
  • natetheartist
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    natetheartist polycounter lvl 9
    yeah, i have to agree with everyone else. Spending 2 hours on a concept isnt much time at all.
    I'm not saying its a good thing, but I'm stoked when i finish a 2d piece in less than 6-8 hours.
    Granted, if you just wanted to come up with a sword, I would suggest that you start of by doing quick, chicken-scratch thumbnails to get a general idea of the shape you want to do. after you figure it out, then move into doing the nice Photoshop paint job. That should shorten your time, and stop things like the sword turning into a dagger.

    The thing that really bugs me about the dagger is that it's really short. The blade is almost as fat as it is long, which is can work if you're going for more of a push dagger style, but the handle grip's width in relation to its length makes it seem that a whole hand wouldn't quite fit it.
    The blade also becomes a bit of a problem as the tang (the part of the blade that goes inside the handle) is very thin, and the blade might break.

    Maybe something more like this?:
    paintoverforpc.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Nice tweaks, I was going for the fade at the bottom at first but I could get it to look right so I gave up.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    no 1 thing you need with concept art isn't anatomy, or even perspective, it's confidence in what you're doing. You need the conviction that what you're going to produce is sweet and you need to show people.. if people see a sweet idea but it's a bit wonky, thats ok, the essence still comes across, and you can learn the technical techniques and improve on them.. but if your thinking is 'couldn't get it to look right so I gave up'- if you won't bother, why will anyone else?

    think of something worth drawing, focus on the parts that make it interesting, new and cool, then give it your best shot with faith in the outcome. The point of concept art is communicating strong ideas, so you need to be doing that first and foremost, and the rest will follow

    edit: here's a tip I just remembered too- sometimes a blank canvas is very daunting. put stuff down as soon as possible, even if it's random scratches and marks.. the brain is a great pattern finding machine, and sometimes ideas emerge from the mess and you just need to fill in the gaps. I remember in one of gauss's concept threads someone suggested overlaying lots and lots of images in different blend modes, and picking bits out of the madness to form new concepts.. it's a great exercise
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    Rooster. You're my newest friend. So often do I hear nothing but "anatomy study, do more gesture studies, study and get everything exactly right because it's important, spend two years posting the same boring shit over and over again and give yourself the title artist", etc, etc... And I always hated it.

    Well you know what. I can't count on all me digits the amount of sketchbooks I've looked through that have been active and ongoing for multiple years - two or three seems a good average, of people doing self portrait after gesture study after self portrait. And you know what. Two or three years later. Their shit still looks the same and it's still boring.

    It is ABSOLUTELY about confidence, and the drive to make your cool ideas look cool and show people how cool they are. From there, people will either like it or they won't, but artists should never be in it for the replies so that's irrelevant.

    Cheers to you!
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    I concept for understanding, and to work out the sticky points I don't want to deal with in 3D.

    :)

    Nicely rendered knife! BTW
  • bounchfx
    I think one of the biggest detriments to my early art was the unwillingness to spend a large amount of time on it. two hours really is nothing. keep going until it looks right. a lot of crap is made when you don't spend time on it appropriately.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    2 hours is a lot for how much free time I actually have with classes and homework + working.
    I've always had more luck painting by blocking out the silhouettes with broad brush strokes, I'll try the line idea though.

    1t2b80.jpg

    Blocked out the low poly, its around 1k tris, I want to keep it around 2-3k.

    I'm still working with the high poly, the edge flow kinda sucks on the basemesh so I have a lot of clean up to do.

    Tweaked the proportions a bit, still need to smooth a lot of stuff out, but it matches the concept art pretty well, still not sure exactly how I want to do the top and bottom of the handle, I'll figure it out when I do the detail work... Do I really need a high poly for something like this? or are there better work around?

    I'm amazed how well I did with the lighting in the concept, only a few areas are different than how it turned out on the model with 1 directional light.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    low poly looks nice!
    do keep drawing tho :)
  • wizo
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    wizo polycounter lvl 17
    nice concept,

    Lampoly has a good point, it depends what you are really looking for, good painting(rendering) or good concepting skills(Design, choices, style)?

    If you are looking to get better at values, I would suggest to study light and values from digital images first, then onto studying reality values etc.. . Bring in a good picture into photoshop, put it in black and white and focus and light accents. check what give pure white, pure black and what values are displayed onto different lighting conditions... its a long process but the will to become better is a very good start.

    If you are looking to get better at design, study the functionality of things, the culture, read or watch lots of movies and study their design choices.... if that make any sense.

    but always keep in mind what you want to become better at, because doing everything at once is brainwrecking.

    I hope this helps.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Bring on the brainwrecking!!!



    Doodle page getting ideas, listening to crazy new artists, nothing pretty besides the sperm with the mustache.

    2wdq4aa.jpg



    Drew with small sketchy lines, liquify to fix scale and shapes, silhouette, added mid gray line work, liquify one last time, drew in scene, trying to get some atmosphere, no lighting yet.

    2gwes5l.jpg

    I want to add some humor into the scene not sure if this is going to be present/future/past/fantasy etc etc or whatever, but I want it to be bizarre. Expect a urinal somewhere.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    neeqhk.jpg


    More detailing, a bit busy right now...
  • KazuyaMochu
    its not about being good at concept drawing. its about being good at drawing. and understanting what makes a good drawing a good drawing. like, composition, proportions, structure, shading, volume, and all the other things that make for a good or bad image.

    and unfortunetly for the lazy, theres no other way to do good drawing expect for practicing and drawing alot.
  • Dr Stench
    This makes me curious. I'm looking forward to seeing more stuff :)
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Too much color?

    neudcp.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    1690089.jpg



    Getting the scale right in 3D and blocking it out.
  • jakelear
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    jakelear polycounter lvl 14
    There's obviously some stylization here, but one thing that really stands out are his mammoth feet. A good rule of thumb is that the length of the foot is about equal the the height of the head without hair.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I was going for the fable style big hands/feet/head, I pushed the feet too far, I'll fix it .
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    30ts480.jpg

    I kinda like how the distant trees look, but I really need to figure out how cartoony vs how real in terms of the stylization. Time to start looking at fable and borderlands for ideas.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I forgot about the hunter challenge and the piece I was working on so I'm going to merge the 2 project, working on the character, I wanna figure out how I'll pose him, and I'm going to make the scene a bit more practical for an actually level, right now its kinda one view.

    j8nz9l.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
  • bounchfx
    it'd be particularly useful for us if you posted not only what work you're doing, but what reference you're using while working on a particular piece. just a thought. you're doing a bit better.
  • ZacD
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    ZacD wrote: »
    30ts480.jpg

    I kinda like how the distant trees look, but I really need to figure out how cartoony vs how real in terms of the stylization. Time to start looking at fable and borderlands for ideas.

    this looks really nice, I would explore down this route some more!
  • Shiraz
    Im not a fantastic concept artist but i have had soem good advce from friends that really helped e improve, bascally what they where getting at is i was learning/practicing the wrong things and hterefore developed bad habits.

    You should learn the basics first before attemping to do more complicated things. Having knowledge about perspective color theory, anatomy and composition etc will grealy improve how everything comes together. Also just block out the scene with colors and shapes to a rough idea of what you want, this way you can tell from the start whether the scene will work or not. Also try not to use pitch black uless your drawing a blackhole.

    Also drawing from life or drawing realistic things will help you understand these theories better. You can then take these concepts and then twist them into any sylization you please.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I know this is the newbish thing ever, and I've used normal maps before, blah blah, and I under stand the concepts of smooth groups and keeping them together in the UV's yada yada

    2vmzwid.jpg

    So I know whats going on, gotta low poly barrel (508 tri I'm gonna do LOD's), there's 3 smooth groups, top sides bottom, got it. And there's the high poly on the right, I was hopping to get the bumps like on the high poly, but the shading is still almost exactly like the low poly, besides the top being less flat and the bump getting a little extra push, what should I do to fix it?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    rhtzte.jpg

    4kilq1.jpg

    Not much more than color-ized doodles from my sketch book

    getting ideas for the scene
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    You know, as "different" as this is compared to the usual idea of concept art these days - I like it a lot.

    You take us back to the basics, enforce through your learning what is the most important part of all conceptual artwork - the idea.

    It might not be photorealistic. It might not be promotional image worthy by any means. But you get your ideas across very effectively and very clearly for your skill level. Trying new things, going again and again.

    Keep at it my friend. It is, very strangely, a joy to look through this thread.
  • bugo
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    bugo polycounter lvl 17
    nice to see the way you are constructing it, keep it comming
  • myles
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    myles polycounter lvl 13
    I think your smoothing groups were incorrect when baking because you've got some odd shadings issues in your low poly.
    I like the direction you're going with the concept art, all I can really say is keep it up :)
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    myles wrote: »
    I think your smoothing groups were incorrect when baking because you've got some odd shadings issues in your low poly.
    I like the direction you're going with the concept art, all I can really say is keep it up :)

    So I should have hard edges around the 'rings'?
    I'll play with it.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    flys1x.jpg

    Better, but not exactly what I'm looking for, I think I'll try xnormal.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Still no luck

    I don't know what way I should have the normals if anyone wants to help me out, I want the transitions between the bumps to be smooth, I have the top of the UV's set up a bit weird but don't worry about it, its not what I'm trying to figure out how to fix.

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2184180/highpoly%20barrel.obj
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2184180/lowpolybarrel.obj
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2184180/Lowpolybarrel2.obj
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Doing a poster for a friends short movie he's working on called baked, need to figure out how to do the text... just a little break from this project, I'm going to have a big update soon once I finish blocking out the scene and map it all out.


    168gcya.jpg

    Had to add the eye and touch up the gore, but there's still a lot of refining left to do.
  • Red_Algol
    you know i really have to agree with two listen, your concept art does a great job of ...actually showing concept! so its really just a matter of learning technical skill i guess, but the creative part is there and thats the tough part for a lot of people (i never could quite get that lol). that strider reindeer thing looks like it would make for a pretty amazing character, and that windmill scene looks like it would be totaly amazing fleshed out! were you planning on modeling out that scene or anything? because if your not i would love to build out that scene using your concept art. :3 i mean as long as that would be cool with you and you wernt planning on going back to it. but anyways, i think your on the right track just dont slow down on it, cuz you can only improve.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I have about 3/4th of the scene blocked out, I'm going for a complete stylized look, if you want to do a different take with it feel free to.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Roughing out the general layout and ideas, nothing near final.

    154f5du.jpg

    Time to talk about the general idea:

    post-apocalyptic!
    ish

    Modern technology but being used in harmony with older tech, not everything got destroyed or damaged for that matter, its for a more badass Zelda adventure game, but more surreal and guns.


    Gonna get some photo reference together and start working on assets and critters, of course going to do the concept art before working on each piece.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    ZacD wrote: »
    rhtzte.jpg



    Not much more than color-ized doodles from my sketch book

    getting ideas for the scene


    I made it more Dali-like

    2jdtsz.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    working on getting some fake hand-drawn textures for the lighthousewindmill

    22ic8o.jpg
  • Nizza_waaarg
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    Nizza_waaarg polycounter lvl 15
    ZacD wrote: »
    I made it more Dali-like

    2jdtsz.jpg

    cool :P

    as far as concepting goes, you could always try blocking things out with a marker (sillhouette), get the larger shapes happening... working at smaller size for enviro stuff, and as far as human drawing skills go, just gotta practice anatomy and life drawing.

    But i am digging the 3d 'arty' peice from a while back... with the trees. Really cool visuals.


    edit: those 'fake' hand-drawn textures aren't bad. I'd usually say try and hand draw them for a better effect but looks cool. Maybe throw some more colour in there, like a cooler colour in the shadows.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Yes sir!

    2gx0g1g.jpg

    The normals kinda suck ass on the ground but you get the idea.
  • achillesian
    huge dali fan, there should totally be a game made using some of his concepts, although, would making it real betray surrealism?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    if the game was surreal I don't think it would. Now, if you put his characters in a GoW style game, that would be betraying.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    28k09lk.jpg

    Trying to figure out how to use textures but keep the cartoon-ish vibe, I really don't want to go cell shaded, and figuring out how to make these trees work close up is giving me lots of head aches. I'm kinda in the limbo land of styles trying to get everything to work together. first ever attempt at making low poly grass/shrubs, worked really well, a little faint though. Just throwing the different props in the scene for fun.
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