Crysis vegetation and speedtree

NAIMA

Hello , since I am not an expert I was wondering something to ask you experts in the game development sector .....
I have awed at the crysis vegetation density in the game levels , I love actually them and I couldnt avoid to compare them for example to the middleware used in many other games like speedtree , for example in oblivion and others, tough I am wondering , how is possible that crysis game engine doesnt use speedtree? I see much of the trees are actually just 3d polygonal models , all built up , while speedtree if not wrong instead is more random fractal generated trees then placed ingame , but not sure so I wanted to ask ....
what are the main differences between speedtree and vegetation in games using speedtree and the crysis vegetation system ? How do they do to have such good performances?what are their main common points and dverging points ? whats the strong points of one and the weack ones?

Thanks for any answer ....

Ark

I've never really used sppedtree. In crysis i believe there just normal models that get scaled and rotated randomly as you paint them into your scene. This combined with a few different models is all you really need to avoid repetition.

Tumerboy

Crysis did not use Speedtree. I have, and it was a horrible experience. I found it taking longer, and looking worse than just modeling what I wanted.

SnowGhost

In the end you get the same thing essentially. However speedtree lacks the artistic hand that a hand made tree would. Many engines though, unreal for example, make use of speedtree as a integrated solution that in ways that go beyond simply "making" a tree. For example speedtree can randomly create a tree with given perameters on call whenever a level is loaded. So the foliage might never be exaclty the same. It also allows you to make a large number in a reativly short amount of time.

Personally if I could I would use speedtree to create the bulk "filler" trees while using hand modeled trees for accent in areas.

mLichy

I think FarCry 2 uses speed tree. They looked good, but they moved really wierd and rubbery.

NAIMA

In Crysis I had no problems and I was in awe to the jungle levels , looked so much real unlike any other spedtree environments I tested , wich also looked good like for example in oblivion but I wondering if use similar technology , how they do to be so fast , whats the pros and cons of the two approaches?

CrazyButcher

linda from armed assault makers also looks pretty good
http://linda.bistudio.com/

as the others said a lot comes down to the artists (ie costs) spent on asset creation. You can get good results out of automatic generated trees as well, just many probably don't spend too much time on that either.

typically there is three issues to solve: creation (either manual, full automatic, semi automatic...) and rendering (whether to allow deformation as well, wind effects...) and pyhsics (proper interaction, not just generic). all can influence each other in means of complexity.

but well, it's all about costs... keep in mind that Crytek wants to establish itself well in the top middleware sector, just like Epic afforded to make GearsOfWar1 beyond "cost sanity" as it's also an engine seller demo...

3DRyan

Okay, so for all the people who have used speedtree a decent amount...

I want to use speedtree to make "filler" trees. I want it to model the tree for me obviously, but want to use my own textures. I don't understand how I could do this though, because all you need to use to make their default textures work in the editor is a diffuse map. How does Speedtree and Unreal know how to take the alpha into account? That's what throws me off from knowing how to use my own textures. Also, in the tutorial that i watched, the guy who made it can't get normal maps to work in the editor without making it crash. Anybody able to get that to work?

Thanks in advance!