3D hobbyist looking for advice

pardonmyvertices · Sep 2009

Hey there. I'm an amateur artist of minor talent looking for advice and instruction on how to improve my 3D skills (primarily in XSI Modtool, though I also have GMax installed).

I'd love to get some advice from you fine folks in Polycount, but given the average quality of submissions to the Pimping and Previews subforum (http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=66109 Holy shit. http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=65912 Holy shit! http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=66121 Aww, fffuck...!) I have a horrible feeling my questions and issues (such as 'what are the best practices for creating a female head in XSI', for example) might be a little, er, rudimentary for this site.

(Ultimately bound for a personal HL2/Source project)

I've fair control of the Modtool, no art training to speak of, have followed many tutorials and my first inclination is to bull through a construction process, often to the result that I'll become discouraged and give up the project. So I thought I'd try something different and ask for some critique and instruction.

If you folks think a project like the above would fit into Polycount and can offer advice and tutorial links then that would be fantastic. If not, any chance you could link me to a community where a long-term newbie like me can find this kinda instruction and evaluation?

Cheers,

-R

Jason Young · Sep 2009

That's a perfectly fine WIP thread for pimping and previews. If it's a question that's more software-centric you might post it in the tech forum, but I think you should go ahead and start a WIP thread. Stuff like 'what are the best practices for creating a female head in XSI' is more software agnostic. The principles generally carry over from app to app.

I'd point you to a more "noob friendly" site, but this is probably the place where you'll get the best critiques.

MoP · Sep 2009

Moving this to P&P since it seems more at home there!

pardonmyvertices · Sep 2009

Thanks to both of you for responding - and thanks for transferring this to P&P. I figured that'd be this thread's natural home, but thought I'd check to see if I should be on Polycount at all first.

So, basically... the project is Caide, a cargo ship captain in a space opera. It's a personal project made with the intention of building her, skinning, rigging and then importing her into HL2/Source.

Progress since the last post...

The project was made while following Ben Mathis' Deliah low-poly character tutorial - http://poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/tutorial.htm . I skipped over the back plane of the model sheet as I was keen to get on with the 3D. I watched as Ben loaded in a pre-made female head which he altered to create Deliah's mesh and.... er... stopped watching.

I'm keen to build this model from scratch, if possible (without pre-built starting points). This may be a useful technique further down the road, but for the moment I'd like to learn the absolute basics.

I'm happy to follow examples or tutorials for creating a female head - or full body - in 3D, but I'd rather learn general techniques and best practices, especially as Caide is my first attempt at modelling a figure of my own design.

Soo... currently, I'm a little further along in crafting her head.

* I'm slightly annoyed that she doesn't look more like her model sheet (in fact, slightly less like her than the early low-poly head I built to start the project).

* I'm peeved that I can't seem to get her head mesh into that beautifully even mesh I see for 3D heads on the internet. Is that due to a technique, a plugin or just more vertices nudging than I can currently comprehend?

* Is there a fast way to build a head of this complexity? I'm aiming for something between HL2's Alyx and a hand-held mid-poly character... and it's taking me an awfully long time (roughly 12 hours to get this far).

Thanks for your time, folks. I really want to get this little project up and running so if you can provide advice and constructive criticism I'd very much appreciate it.

Cheers,

-R

PS: Sorry if I'm not providing the correct information or asking the right questions right now - I'll improve with time.

PPS: Caide was VERY! LOOSELY! based on Lisa Edelstein who plays Cuddy on House. Maybe this'll help when you're giving critique, maybe not.

System · Sep 2009

Hey

Looks like your box modelling the head, if your not well versed in modelling organic shapes you will find it very difficult to make a natural edge flow using this technique. For a better flow you could try the plane method, starting with the eye.
The other problem is the reference not being detailled enough to read good depth from it, did a quick paintover to emphasize that...

pior · Sep 2009

Gcmp : totally disagree on that paintover!! You actually added some creases where there really shouldnt be any. Like that moustache fold from the nose to the corner of the mouth. No one, no one has that yet I see it done everywhere ...

Joseph Silverman · Sep 2009

gcmp that paintover is silly

also team polycount is 0 and 1 on remembering EARS.

Bruno Afonseca · Sep 2009

I think the reference you're using is actually getting in your way.
The proportions of the drawing are way off, and the drawing doesn't give you any clues on volumes and shapes.

Get some pictures of real people that have a similar look of what you're aiming for ( http://www.3d.sk/ ) and use them instead of those.
Start low poly and try to get the most resemblance out of the few polies you have. Once it feels right, start adding edge loops and details wherever needed.

vcool · Sep 2009

I wrote a long ass "cautionary tale" style response concerning modelling for Source, but then I read your post and I realised you are too commited to her. (Caide) Thus I only included the later part that actually gave suggestions.

The thing that caught my eye first was the uneven mesh density. You have a lot of polies on the front of the face, but barely any on the sides. I then realised that you have lots of the face edges terminating on one polygon making a massive Ngon. The model gets triangulated when exported, sure, but you will most likely get nasty shading errors. The other thing you should do is to look at human head topology. There was a great pic showing the correct placement of loops in different colours, but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Someone posted it on Polycount, so hopefully it'll pop up sooner or later.

As for the paintover, I don't like how it looks but I agree with GCMP that the model sheet should be sharper and more detailed.

I remember I had many more things to suggest when I started writing this post, but at this moment I can't recall anything.

Maybe after some sleep tonight and once my headache caused by sinusitis goes away I will recall something.

tyl3r · Sep 2009

vcool wrote: »

The other thing you should do is to look at human head topology. There was a great pic showing the correct placement of loops in different colours, but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Someone posted it on Polycount, so hopefully it'll pop up sooner or later.

Here's a couple I used when I tried modelling a head for the first time:

Calabi · Sep 2009

I dont know, I think trying to get the perfect topology to start with can be confusing and too much, best to get something looking close to what you want it to look like then you can start figuring out how to get the edges to flow when you subdivide and morph it.

Just use as few edges as you can, to make roughly the shape you want it, to start off with.

pardonmyvertices · Sep 2009

Useful information so quickly! Thank you!

@GCMP
Indeed I AM box modelling the head! Though not any more due to the excellent tutorial you sent me. That looks great - much obliged.

Thanks also for the quick paintover, makes your point very clearly, shall endevour to do better on this in the future.

@pior
Which fold are we talking about now? Is he not just outlining the lips in order to highlight?

@SupRore
I see I have some memes to learn. Point taken on ears, though have one (sorta) in profile view. Sorta. Needs more detail. Righto.

@fonfa
Thanks for your note on the reference image, will try to do better in future. My artistic skill is somewhat limited and... improving... very... fucking... slow... lll...ly...

Er. The site you've linked to is tripping Chrome's AARGH NO SCARY SITE alert so, no offense, anybody else vouch for 3d.sk?

Pathetically, I DID start out low poly...

Clearly I must do more betterer next time.

@vcool
While I am somewhat committed to using Source (I intend getting this thing into the engine, running around and using the environment - and most of my game skills are in environment design and scripting in Source. Amateur, see?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the engine and any alternatives you suggest.

I'm here to learn, not discuss, so I'll just read your info, nod and move on. (This is also the reason I won't be participating in many other Polycount areas for a while - I have nothing to contribute)

Thanks you for pointing out the problems with the model as it stands - those giant side-polys would be horrific if exported with that, yup. Thankfully, 1) this is a WIP - I would have massaged and fretted over each little space on the side before I'd export it and 2) after GCMP's advice and link, am now throwing the current model out. Third time's the charm.

Will look into model sheet. Am a slow worker but will give it my best shot.

Am anticipating your response with anticipation.

@tyl3r
Basically: Voot, thanks!

@Calabi
Honestly, the low-poly modelling thing appeals to me - it's approachable and I really dig the aesthetic. However the tutorial GCMP pointed me at has some very attractive features also - if nothing else, it allows you to concentrate on getting the face right from the off. This'd a measure of positive feedback...!

Do you have an example of the method you're suggesting?

@all
Thanks for all the responses. I'll try to improve the model sheet (the face) later this evening, followed by attempt #03 at the head using http://www.3dtotal.com/pages/tutorials/max/joanofarc/head1.php .

Ben Mathis seemed to suggest a fairly low resolution for model sheets in his Deliah tutorial - anybody care to suggest their own preferred model sheet res?

-R

PS: Anybody got info on changing the thread title? was going to bring it more in line with the forum standards, something like

[WIP] Caide, female. 3D hobbyist looking for advice

praxedes · Sep 2009

3Dsk ALWAYS makes browsers twitchy cos they're in eastern europe- but they are a very established and well-recognised site used by professionals all the time- quite a few books and magazines on 3D modelling use their stuff so it's perfectly safe. I just told chrome not to worry

~P~

3D hobbyist looking for advice

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