Muscle Simulation

120Degree_Flip

Im new to gaming, but have worked in the film industry in the past...

SO, what kind of muscle simulation is used in games, if any AND I hope the Doom engine is gonna be open source soon.... i wanna mod it.. maybee:shifty:

Rumkugel

normally none,

however CAT´s muscle system works pretty fine with games.

MoP

Nope, not really any muscle simulation. About the best you'll get currently is some joints driven by muscle solvers and baked to frame data.

Fight Night Round 4 has some nice stuff done using blended normal maps to simulate muscles and skin stretching, but it's not real-time solving of actual muscle shapes, it's just normal-map blends driven by key poses or joint angles.

Most games are still just pure joint-based animation with some blendshapes (morphs) for faces or certain elements, and the occasional physics-driven joint (eg. cloth or things that wobble around - boob jiggle!).

arshlevon

i do know of one game in production now that is using real time muscle deformation, with skin sliding.. its unannounced and i don't work for the company making it, but i have seen a realtime demo of it working and it was awesome..

120Degree_Flip

fight night 3 for 360 was amazing, i cant wait to play 4
i think i played the ps2 version also which was still great....

that game looks great...

i just love maya muscle, its kinda technichal but i guess anatomy knowledge makes it pretty streamlined... best rigging system ive seen

Muzzoid

Why did i read the title as muscle stimulation?

|:

120Degree_Flip

i aced spelling, but sometimes i get tired from these 80+ workweeks

praxedes

I get a lot of emails about Muscle Stimulation

~P~

Bigjohn

A bit of a thread necro, but I was looking around for threads on the subject, and this is as close as I found. Figured it's better than to make a new one.

Anyway, I'm wondering where this is now. Maybe someone is aware of what the latest engines can offer, what with UDK and all.

More specifically, I ran across this little pdf:
http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~perla/Siggraph2011/content/courses/mclaughlin.pdf
Specifically the chapter about real-time implementation. They describe a system of procedurally-controlled secondary bones that react to rotations of the original skeleton programmatically. It sounds like a pretty feasible solution, and I'm thinking it may be doable in UDK with a SkelControl, or even through scripting. I wonder if anyone has tried something like this? Or if this is being used in games today?

I'm also wondering what are they using for the latest Fight Night games, like the one that came out this year? Do they just place extra floating bones in there and hand-animate those?

claydough

MoP wrote: »

Nope, not really any muscle simulation. About the best you'll get currently is some joints driven by muscle solvers and baked to frame data.

Fight Night Round 4 has some nice stuff done using blended normal maps to simulate muscles and skin stretching, but it's not real-time solving of actual muscle shapes, it's just normal-map blends driven by key poses or joint angles.

Most games are still just pure joint-based animation with some blendshapes (morphs) for faces or certain elements, and the occasional physics-driven joint (eg. cloth or things that wobble around - boob jiggle!).

It seems to me as if some very nice self collision is going on as well in fight night.
The arm and chest mucsles seeming roll around each other very believably:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOQsR78Pwvw"]Fight Night Round 4 Demo - Muscle Flex - YouTube[/ame]
The only in depth article I could find did not go in depth on self collision but did hint at physical simulation to achieve some of the muscle effects:

Each of the elements work with and compliment the physics system. These include but aren’t limited to:
- muscle flex/deformation
- muscle/fat jiggle
- body ripple (Both for the fighter being impacted and as a reaction back through the boxer throwing the punch)
- sweat generation (for sweat dripping down a boxers face/body and also the sweat you see fly when a boxer is hit)

But for all I know that is for the sweat generation system described.
the full article:
http://www.ea.com/fight-night/blog/fight-night-champion-art-blog



brilliant:




At these levels of fidelity I am wondering if the end results of these kind of details should not be the responsibility of a good modeler? If so an non-deformed non-rigged model simply becomes a "concept" and skinning and final form of these systems represent what is/will be the true end result of a good sculpt.
In my own personal tools I have been concerned with joint placement/orientation and building the skinning in the very "first" stages of modeling. Skinning as an act of modeling.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=754084

claydough

claydough wrote: »

It seems to me as if some very nice self collision is going on as well in fight night.
The arm and chest mucsles seeming roll around each other very believably:
Fight Night Round 4 Demo - Muscle Flex - YouTube
The only in depth article I could find did not go in depth on self collision but did hint at physical simulation to achieve some of the muscle effects:
But for all I know that is for the sweat generation system described.

Nevermind...
It appears that the physics engine did an awesome job at handling collision!
physic engine developer diary
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mURRnicdNDw"]Fight Night Round 4 Exclusive Producer Doc: Physics - YouTube[/ame]