WIP "Hades Servant" Character

aipash

Hi I am looking for valuable feedback and critique on my current work in progress. This is the Hades Servant Character I have modeled so far. Hes about 6,000 tris; I am going for a medium poly character. This is the base mesh so far. I will post updates with Normal maps( especially considering this character will be largely normal mapped) and textures shorty after they are completed. Here is a link to some quick concept art so you can get a feel for the direction in which this is going. http://aipash.cgsociety.org/gallery/802309/

Thanks!


-Ashlee

gilbree

Good progress so far. The character is so simple right now, but the silhouette is smooth and distinctive. I can't wait to see the normal map!

aipash

Alright update number 1. This is the first pass for zbrush. Still tons to go. Armor;head;clothing; come later. He is hades servant so he does the devils deeds. Being such he is whipped, beaten, all that fun stuff. Knowing this feel free to post ideas on cool things to do to him. lol. Pretty clean slate now so tell me your thoughts.

aipash

Not sure if its just me or if you really cant see these images.

Base Mesh

Zbrush Update 1

boyluya

can't see any images..

ErichWK

Neither can I, I'd recommend putting all your photos in photo bucket then copying the image URL into the little picture box thingy.

Taylor Hood

Sorry .. but whats so hard about tiny picing images and then copying or typing [img][/img]

praxedes

I can see them once I log my CGTalk account.

My comments would be that you've gone and polypainted and detailed a very rough, half finished model- adding in veins, cuts and dripping blood before you've added any muscle forms or even started those hands seems like a waste of effort as you'll lose a lot of that. I would suggest dropping back a few division levels and really cracking the anatomical structure- you can re-detail later but all the blood in the world won't help if the underlying forms are wrong. Trust me on this- I got enough of a beating in the forums for bad anatomy myself! The phrase that sprang so readily to mind for my own piece was "polishing a turd"! I'm not suggesting yours is that bad, but get the workflow order right- that cool stuff nas to wait!

~P~

aipash

alright calm down Lom its an image hosting conflict .... fix.

Stertman

from what i can see on your concepts you want him to be very muscular so you need to work alot with the anathomy before starting to polypaint and do fine details.. If you start to polypaint it too early its easy to get stuck and not wanting to ruin your work by starting to deform him again.. the base looks like a good start though, but take a breath, step back and try to get the body to where you want it to be..

keep going=)..

cheers

aipash

Thank you. I think I have fallen into the general idea of I want him to be muscular esk. Like an aging wrestler if you will. Im not sure, however, if saggy pectoral muscles will be the direction I want to go, probably not. Guess im still drawing the line between the two.

aipash

Here is the wire as requested and a small clothing update. Note that I paint and sculpt at the same time. I have more sculpting to do and work the armor yet. I dont want to flood this thread with tons of images so here are some quick links.

I know the toes may seem a little dense but I wanted to use this character to get good at doing toes. lol I suck at them. (and hands too >.<)

Also his little cloth will have a nice alpha for ripping.

Wire

Update 2

Feedback please

praxedes

Hi- can I ask what anatomical ref you're using? I ask for two reasons-

1- his muscles don't match natural muscles very closely- e.g. he has no obliques or serratus anteriori but appears to have 2 trapesius...

2- your low poly wire edge flow doesn't look to my eyes like it reflects muscle flow and this might impact deformations. And he's a bit oddly proportioned.

A quick google for "human anatomy reference" turns loads of resources and images up- e.g this:



which might help! 3d Sk is great if you can pay for the subscription- failing that look at something like http://www.bodybuilding.com/ for reference.

Hope this is of use to you! Look forward to updates.

~P~

aipash

You are correct in thinking he as no obliques or serratus musles this is for a good reason. hes chubby in the stomach area. Maybe a side render would help out? I have used multiple reference images... bodybuilder ones for the most part. He does not have two trapesius muscles. Everyone has a musle posterior from the body that sits between the bicepts and tricepts (brachialis i believe). I agree with you the proportions are a little wank, but i was kinda going for that not mr. all star if you will.

Not arguing with you, infact I love that you are devoting your time to help me out. I guess the bigger problem is that im having a hard time seeing exactly what your saying.

praxedes

cool- gotcha. If he's chubby, then I would suggest that the flesh needs more "eight" to it- the effects of gravity on the masses of his form pulling down. Because everything is evenly weighted curves, the eye assumes it's viewing taut skin which would only sit over defined muscle. Sag down and fold some areas, especially on his pecs and get some fat creasing into the recesses. Basically, supply the eye with the visual cues that say "flabby" instead of "Ripped"

Cheers

~P~

WipEout

I'd say so far your anatomy is failing because your proportions are off. The palms of the hands are too short, as are his forearms. If you look at the muscle image you posted and compare it to your model, you will see what I'm talking about. I noticed that even your concept drawings have poor proportions-- If I were you I would first draw out the base skeleton simply standing with his arms slightly out to the side, then draw in the basic shapes of muscles and anatomy as appropriate-- even if the skin is fatty, it isn't necessarily going to puff up off the muscle and bones-- it's still going to be pulled taught in some places, like at the elbow and collar bone where there's less muscle. Just be sure to recognize the muscle insertion points and shapes over the skeleton and you will have a good base to work from. These ideas are easily applicable to the model without going back to the drawing board, though.

Just be sure to remember muscle insertion points and general proportions. Check out this site for more info and a good means of learning to eyeball anatomical proportions.

praxedes

what he said poor proportioning plus no muscular and weight definition= wierd infatable man, not flabby but musclebound man.

~P~

aipash

Oh i see what your saying. That makes sense because I have studied anatomy very very thoroughly. And I am usually very good with proportion. Where the problem started for me was that I started the base mesh in Zbrush with Zspheres for the first time ever. When I took it into max I guess I just blew of the " hold on slow down and take a good look at everything from afar stage". I believe if the arms were a tad longer and the legs as well it wont look so "off". Seeing how this is due Basically Wednesday (finals week at school tons of presentions to prepare) Im going to just keep going with this as is and turn in something. I will however revisit this because I actually like this character, and all the insight I am getting from people who dont sit in the same class room as me.

Thanks a lot you guys!

BradMyers82

aipash: No offense man, but you probably should study anatomy quite a bit more before you close the books. Truly, there are very few artists around that don't have much room for improvement, so I think you're better off approaching this as if you know nothing.

Find an exact reference of what-ever body type you want to recreate and go for it. I understand that you are rushed, so try to keep things simple, and just get the basic shapes down (forget minor details like veins and stuff like that).

Specifically, if I were you, I would go back down to one of the lower subdivisions, smooth things out, and delete the higher subdivisions. Then just get the basic forms down and call it a day. Remember, the most important things is nailing a good silhouette, with good proportions. If you just take a moment to work out a plan of attack on this, I think you can pull it all together nicely.
Good luck!

aipash

Oh i agree Im not perfect. If I were I wouldnt be a student, and I wouldnt be posting here. Trust me I actually do know my anatomy, Its just a matter of applying it. I wish I had time to go back to do all this but the fact of the matter is that I have several other things to finish for finals. Ill keep all this in mind however for my next character endevor.

Thanks all.

WipEout

So is this also a final? What year are you in? I ask because if this is a homework assignment, depending on the class (and the school and the teacher too) you may be better off nailing down the basics first. I can guarantee that one of the first things that your teacher will point out in a critique is that you rushed the details before nailing the basics, and that is going to hurt your grade regardless of how finished or WIP the model may be. I would recommend simply dropping the higher resolutions and getting those basic proportions and silhouette nailed down, and if the model isn't finished, fuck it-- again, depending on which level of class this is for (I am assuming it is closer to the beginning of your school career), the (good) teacher isn't going to care so much for a finished model as much as one that obviously has the basics down pat.

Frankly, if all the teacher wants to see is a finished model regardless of a shown understanding of the basics, then he isn't doing his job. If you aren't practicing those basics, then you aren't doing yours.

aipash

well its a "final" as in last project of the class. We have only made 3 characters, and this is my first with zspheres. You are very very correct that I should have the basics down first. This was a 2 week project (mind you i have several other class so as any student knows 2 week projects are more like a few double digit hours of work saddly.). It was a matter of seeing the project through from start to finish. Do the model, the unwrap, the normal, and other textures. bam turn it in. My problem Im coming into is that all my assignments never really give me time to settle down and actually put my feet in the water instead of my toes. So the whole "slow down and take things in stride" is only soo applicable.

When it comes to learning I think you have to actually learn before you can do, but these classes have always been run before you can walk.

Thanks to forums tho, I am learning a lot more than I do in classes.

WipEout

It's good that you're still willing to learn and take advice from sources other than your teachers. I'm curious, though, what school are you attending?

I remember some of the first 3D classes I took had the same setup, though: here are the programs, here's how you use them, now make a short animation. On your own. I remember a particular class twice because I failed the first time due to time constraints, but blew the class out of the water that preceding summer since I had two months of my own time to dedicate to the project. Still, though-- the end results were laughable, at best, and the school completely revamped said class after now-friend/then-director explained the problems with shoving students into programs without first teaching them solid fundamentals.

I would suggest checking out Gnomon DVDs, Digital Tutors, things of that sort to help you alongside school. It sounds to me, at first glance, that your school's administration doesn't have a good understanding of 3D production themselves to truly be able to teach the students the skills necessary to get a job in the industry. /my 2 cents

praxedes

well said wipeout! Gnomon et al are invaluable resources. I fi had my time over, I'd not do the 4 year teacher training course that put me 20K into debt- I'd buy 20K of Gnomon and similar then sit on my ass at home with the forums as my tutors and get a result in half the time!

Some schools and training facilities are really on the ball, but others- well, if it takes 4 years to get a course approved, and 4 years to get changes approved, as with a lot of institutions, how up to date a relevant will the course be. I did a 2D design course back in 2002 which used Photoshop6...even the tutor gave everyone hacked copies of more recent PS, Illo and flash cos he knew what a blow the course was!

Good luck man!

~P~

Pope Adam

aipash wrote: »

alright calm down Lom its an image hosting conflict .... fix.

lol Lom's an asshole rofl rofl

aipash

haha Well I go to Art Institute Pittsburgh, and Im now starting to learn that there are only about 2 good professors in my major. Unfortunately when I learn the basics I didnt have either one of them. My work has improved substantially but I know I have a long long way to go. First good step I made was buying the Zbrush book.

The forums are great cause I get the harsh critique I need, that I doubt I would get in class. I dont know what I want to specialize in yet (character design, texture work, level design, etc) but seeing as how this has hit me pretty hard, im bound and determined to get it right. Maybe eventually I will be a great character modeler. I dont really have that many under my belt to say, and Im just getting started with all i wanna do in zbrush.

praxedes

I reckon you'll do well with that attitude- criticism is just a motivation to improve!

Good luck with the final

~P~

aipash

thanks man, you have been a big help.

aipash

Incase you are curios how it looked for the final, tons to do; LOTS LEARNED!

ralusek

his forearms are too short meing, and his elbow is essentially bending sideways on it's natural joint. and it might be a matter of taste, but i'd up the size of his head a bit

helldiver

Something's off, don't know what it is

I went back to school and took life drawing classes, you can't imagine how much help it has been. Simply went to community college and took up life drawing for a semester, followed by another semester of a more advanced life drawing class. I also took a beginner animation class. Cost me like $60 bucks for all that. While I was there the prof. loved me, I'd show her my 3D artwork and game artwork and she was really into it.

I didn't care whether I passed or failed, it was mainly to learn about anatomy and get it down pat.