3ds Max 2009 mesh explode ...?

Neavah

I'm having a strange problem with max 2009.

I've modeled a hand with the line tool, and the suface modifier, then edit poly after.
I opened the file of my character model to merge the 2 files. When I merged the hand mesh into the character file the mesh was effed up. I went back into the original file to collapse the mod. stack (assuming they were in different units) and the original file is the same. All screwed up. All of my previous files are like this as well.

Strangley when I go to open the file the thumbnail shows what it did/supose to look like.

I was wondering if anyone knows why this is happening? Is this a max 2009 problem (I've use this modeling tecnique for modeling faces numerous times in max 9 and have never had any problems)? Or is this somthing I've done, that shouldn't have?


Any ideas as why this is happening or how to fix it would be greatly appreciated!

thanks!

PieJesu

Have you tried resetting your xform on both models?

Mark Dygert

I've seen that happen a few times to a guy I work with. I don't think he has ever managed to fix it. You could try merging the old scene into a new but I'm pretty sure he tried it and it failed.

Save in iteration and check your autoback files. =/

Neavah

Thanks for the quick responce!

I've tried resetting the xforms, and on a whim adding a turn to poly and keeping convex edges. Nothing seems to have fixed it.

Sadley, all earilier iterations of the file are the same.

Anyone know if this is a problem exclusive to max 2009? if its just max 2009, I'll stick to using this method of modeling in max 9...

Thanks again!

Neavah

I tried exporting, reimporting, (several times incase max is funny like that) but it seems to have made no difference...

Looks like I'll be biting the bullet and redoing it. ... at least it was just a hand ... ...

Thanks again!

Neavah

I would post a pic, but I (shamefully) can't figure out how to...
My 'posting options' at the bottom of the page specify "You may not post attachments"

I've read the FAQ on albums and pictures... but I dont have an attachement icon, or a 'manage attachments' option... (and I'm not using quick reply)

Sorry for the silly question... but if you know how or what to do, I would gladly post some shots of what I'm talking about.

Havok

Upload the pic to somewhere (imageshack, photobucket, etc.) and then what I do is with imageshack grab the direct link and paste it here in between this: . Should work fine .

Mark Dygert

If you hit PrintScreen it will take a snap shot of your screen and copy it to the clipboard, you can then paste that into a image editing program of your choice. then do like Havok suggested.

Neavah

Thanks for the uploading advice!

heres a screenshot of the 'effed up' hand



This is a render I took of what it originally looked like before I closed the file to merge it

Mark Dygert

Can you drop down lower in the modifier stack and does it go away?

Neavah

It seems theres somthing wrong with both edit polys applied. If I take off one, it gets a little better, but they're both causeing this effect.

If I drop down to the surface or normal modifier things look normal (a flat plane of a cut-out hand)

commander_keen

you should always collapse the stack unless you really need to keep it for some reason.

MoP

That stack does look particularly crazy. It would probably have been fine if you'd collapsed up to that first Edit Poly, all down into an Editable Poly.

Doing a Line followed by a Surface modifier (which are always pretty fiddly anyway and can evaluate differently even if the tiniest thing changes), then two separate Edit Poly modifiers on top just seems like asking for trouble to me.

You do know how the stack works right? It relies on information in the modifiers at the bottom (or below each other) being correct. That means if you changed anything in the Surface or first Edit Poly modifier, everything above in the stack would get messed up.

My guess is the Surface modifier has been evaluated differently somehow (maybe you moved a vertex in the Line?), and as a result everything above it now has received garbage info.

When working with the stack you really need to be aware how it functions. As long as you can guarantee the non-parametric info there (basically anything that doesn't generate a mesh) will not change, then it should be fine.

Mark Dygert

Also note that sub-object selection will get passed up the stack also. So say for example you go back down to the first edit poly and select a few polys, leave them selected and travel back up the stack it will apply the changes you did, to only that selection, until it encounters another selection.

Every vertex gets a number, those numbers are stored in a table. 3dsmax remembers what you did to what set of verts/faces based on that vert table. That number changes when you add/remove geometry. If you travel back down the stack and change the vert table it passes the updated vert table up the stack but now vert 2 is something entirely different, but the changes are still applied to vert 2 where ever it is.

Ruz

Quite often using edit poly on the stack will result in corrupted meshes.
For example doing a few collapse edges and then and then an undo can do this, so when I am optimizing stuff I try and using target weld.

PieJesu

Ruz wrote: »

... doing a few collapse edges and then and then....

Glitch in the matrix?

I've never used an edit poly modifier. Too many hotkeys to rebind.

Neavah

Thanks for everyones responces!

All of my previous iterations are like this (the one with just one edit poly is like this aswell). They were saved this way, and then I continued to work on them with none of these effects present.

I should have colapsed the stack at least to the first edit poly on it (if I use symetry I usually leave 3 edit polys on - one before the symetry, one after and one for a delete of half the mesh, just as a precaution, and habit I guess...perhaps a bad one...).

But on that note I've used this method at least a dozen times and I'm sure that at least half of those I probably didn't colapsed the stack, and have never had any problems like this before (in max 9) perhaps now is a good time for a first - haha.

Quite often using edit poly on the stack will result in corrupted meshes.

I've only ever used edit poly (assuming the alternative is edit mesh). I've never experienced a problem like this (well a problem that reverting to autoback and earilier iterations couldn't fix) ... or really any big probelms with edit poly in gerneral... it has more "fancy tools" than edit mesh :poly124:

thanks again!

Neavah

Thanks,

But on that note I've used this method at least a dozen times and I'm sure that at least half of those I probably didn't colapsed the stack, and have never had any problems like this before (in max 9) ...

I was fishing more for an explantion as to how this is a problem now, and not in the past.

My knowledge of the stack in max is limited to what vig has stated, everything beyond that (including probelms that could occur) i'm completely ignorant to. From my expierences, it doesnt make sense that this is 100% the cause of this probelm for reasons mentioned.

But you guys know better than I do, so maybe someone could explain it to me?

Neavah

Thanks for the explanation, and everyones help!