Modo Tip: Symmetrical Modeling with Mirrored Instances
The modo users here at Polycount might be interested to know this. If this is old hat I apologize.
Using Instance Mirror to achieve a more powerful workflow for symmetrical modeling...
Below is a solution for modeling symmetrically in modo without using Symmetry mode. Using modo's Symmetry options along X,Y, or Z works, but anyone who's used it has seen it fail on occasion, forcing you to go on a resymmetrizing spree. Additionally, the default Symmetry mode does not support the creation of new, disconnected geometry in the same mesh.
By using "Instance Mirror" on a mesh, you create a mirrored duplicate of your current layer, and no matter what you do to that layer, it will be reflected in the instance. Modo's Symmetry modes are bypassed and you're free to model as you wish. This is similar to tools like XSI's Clone, except that modo's will also let you add edges, add geometry, and pretty much do whatever the heck you want. I'm not familiar with Max but I'm sure it has something similar. It has to, right?
Point 1:
Take your mesh and run the Instance Mirror command. You can even do this on an empty mesh item. Unlike the Symmetry modeling mode, which works only on geometry, the Instance Mirror command works on the actual mesh item and all its contents together.
Point 2:
Create some geometry! It's instantly reflected in the mirrored instance.
Point 3:
Model away! Since the mirrored object is an instance, modo will let you move points across the central axis and into the other mesh's "territory." Be sure to watch out for this, and keep the "Set Vertex Position" tool handy so you can keep from breaking that plane too much. If only Lux will give us the option to keep verts from crossing a given axis!
Point 4:
If you need to create all new geometry from scratch in that same mesh item, no problem!
No hassle over setting symmetry modes on or off. No need to use the Symmetry Tool. When you're done, just convert the instanced mesh to a regular mesh and merge points.
Again, I'm sure I'm not the first one to do this, but I know for a fact that this method doesn't get talked about much, despite people complaining about symmetry mode every now and then.
Achieving 3-way (multi-axis) symmetry in modo...
To take it a step further, you can even use this basic "instance" workflow to work with 2-way and 3-way symmetry at once.
Instead of using Instance Mirror, we'll use a series of normal Instance commands, using a Sphere as an example. The setup time for this is a bit much, but maybe it's scriptable, and maybe it's worth it.
1. Create a sphere and delete its bottom half, and then half of that, and then half of that again. So what is left is 1/8th of the original shape.
2. Run the normal Instance command on the mesh.
3. Scale the instance by -100% along X.
4. Select both the mesh and the instance and instance those together.
5. Scale those by -100% along Z.
6. Select all 4 mesh items and instance them.
7. Scale those last 4 instances by -100% along Y.
8. You now have 8 mesh items in your item list, but they are all working in unison to create a fully symmetrical sphere. Model away on the main mesh and you have 3-way, multi-axis modeling in modo.
I suck at scripting, but if I didn't, I would script steps 2-7 as much as possible.
Here's a screenshot showing the 3-way symmetrical modeling in action. Again, you're not working with symmetrical geometry so much as symmetrical meshes. This lets you add more geometry from scratch inside the same mesh and have it reflected in all the instances.
Using Instance Mirror to achieve a more powerful workflow for symmetrical modeling...
Below is a solution for modeling symmetrically in modo without using Symmetry mode. Using modo's Symmetry options along X,Y, or Z works, but anyone who's used it has seen it fail on occasion, forcing you to go on a resymmetrizing spree. Additionally, the default Symmetry mode does not support the creation of new, disconnected geometry in the same mesh.
By using "Instance Mirror" on a mesh, you create a mirrored duplicate of your current layer, and no matter what you do to that layer, it will be reflected in the instance. Modo's Symmetry modes are bypassed and you're free to model as you wish. This is similar to tools like XSI's Clone, except that modo's will also let you add edges, add geometry, and pretty much do whatever the heck you want. I'm not familiar with Max but I'm sure it has something similar. It has to, right?
Point 1:
Take your mesh and run the Instance Mirror command. You can even do this on an empty mesh item. Unlike the Symmetry modeling mode, which works only on geometry, the Instance Mirror command works on the actual mesh item and all its contents together.
Point 2:
Create some geometry! It's instantly reflected in the mirrored instance.
Point 3:
Model away! Since the mirrored object is an instance, modo will let you move points across the central axis and into the other mesh's "territory." Be sure to watch out for this, and keep the "Set Vertex Position" tool handy so you can keep from breaking that plane too much. If only Lux will give us the option to keep verts from crossing a given axis!
Point 4:
If you need to create all new geometry from scratch in that same mesh item, no problem!
No hassle over setting symmetry modes on or off. No need to use the Symmetry Tool. When you're done, just convert the instanced mesh to a regular mesh and merge points.
Again, I'm sure I'm not the first one to do this, but I know for a fact that this method doesn't get talked about much, despite people complaining about symmetry mode every now and then.
Achieving 3-way (multi-axis) symmetry in modo...
To take it a step further, you can even use this basic "instance" workflow to work with 2-way and 3-way symmetry at once.
Instead of using Instance Mirror, we'll use a series of normal Instance commands, using a Sphere as an example. The setup time for this is a bit much, but maybe it's scriptable, and maybe it's worth it.
1. Create a sphere and delete its bottom half, and then half of that, and then half of that again. So what is left is 1/8th of the original shape.
2. Run the normal Instance command on the mesh.
3. Scale the instance by -100% along X.
4. Select both the mesh and the instance and instance those together.
5. Scale those by -100% along Z.
6. Select all 4 mesh items and instance them.
7. Scale those last 4 instances by -100% along Y.
8. You now have 8 mesh items in your item list, but they are all working in unison to create a fully symmetrical sphere. Model away on the main mesh and you have 3-way, multi-axis modeling in modo.
I suck at scripting, but if I didn't, I would script steps 2-7 as much as possible.
Here's a screenshot showing the 3-way symmetrical modeling in action. Again, you're not working with symmetrical geometry so much as symmetrical meshes. This lets you add more geometry from scratch inside the same mesh and have it reflected in all the instances.
Replies
The symmetry tool tends to fix things up easily enough if they go astray. There's also scripts out there that'll automatically delete one half of your model and mirror the other half back over at the click of a button.
There are already some mirror commands available in modo - I mixed some of the commands into a script together and it would add symmetry with welding the verts in the middle. But in the end it was fighting just like this procedure, what really would be awesome if all other 3d applications would adopt the max modfier idea, allowing you to toggle modifications over your workflow layer.
But I find the Mirror Instance option to be the fastest and most reliable way to model symmetrically in modo. It's actually less effort to run Duplicate-> Instance Mirror and be done with it than to mirror polys, activate Symmetry, and wait for slices not to carry across, then have to use the Symmetry Tool and hope it realigns everything.
The symmetry mode and symmetry tool don't work 100% of the time. Not nearly. I'm having a far easier time using instanced geometry.
for some reason, i hate instances, and i think it must be because i do characters mainly. To have hard edges in the middle of the character is not a serious bussiness XDD.
For the screens, that seems to be modo 401
The hard edges are an illusion. The point is that after you're done modeling, you convert the instance to a regular mesh and merge the verts.
Yes, this was done in 401 but 302 can do it too.
Maybe I'm the only one who's never had a consistently solid experience with the symmetry tools. I'll symmetrize my model, go to work, and invariably at some point, I'll add a slice somewhere that doesn't get carried across. Then I have to take time to track down what went wrong and why symmetry wasn't kept. I'll even use the Symmetry Tool to get it back into shape, but frequently, it will leave some points alone and not even budge them (despite being mirrored on the other side and the point order being the same).
The other thing that is important to remember is that modo's Symmetry mode does not allow you to add new geometry from scratch to a symmetrical mesh on both sides. If I want to make armor for a guy, and I need to use the Pen Tool with the BG-Vector Constraint (an awesome 401 thing, by the way) to sketch out a shape, it will NOT be mirrored by using Symmmetry mode. I have to model part of it then mirror it. But if I'm using an Instance, it's already done. I mirror once at the beginning and that's it.
The fact that the mirroring is done on the mesh and not on the geometry is what I like. Much more flexible.
I was customed to work with instances in Max long time ago, but since modo appeared, that thing of welding vertexes is history hehe, steps i save. Convert to regular mesh, and then weld, are imho unnecessary steps when you can edit with simmetry, although i must say instances are pretty nice for some things (mechanical).
Modo still gets buggy in simmetry mode. Sometimes i have the need to do a simmetry fix :S, but the case it's very very weird.
The simmetry mode, is aimed to work with simmetrical models, so if you add additional geometry in a side, you need to select the new element you created and do a simmetry (because vertexes are not reflected in simmetry). It would be only one step, simmetry tool.
Doing a simmetry at the beginning or as you need, with both, you will obtain the same. Using instances in a character, you'll need to convert to standard geometry, select the vertexes and weld them. For a character you really don't need to use any tool, just activate the simmetry mode and edit. You subdivide a box and you have the perfect primitive for modelling, all is reduced to bevels and cuts
I think all this is up to your modelling preferences ^^.
Instances or Simmetry edit...
As i said, hard edges in the middle can be a problem.