building new system

Ruz

so yeah after the sad death of my oversized egomaniac 20 inch laptop its time to build a new system (desktop this time)

Been to pc specialist which seems to be a reasonable site
This is the pc builder bit
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index.php?page=form&&select=intel2

Just wondering which system to get. I figure around the 800 quid mark would get me a decent system.

I figured a quad core with a 1GB vid card would suffice for zbrush max and pshop which is what I use mainly.

mdeforge

Be sure to get 6 to 8GB of ram too!

You'd save a lot of money if you custom built =]

Ruz

yep I was thinking of 8 to 12 Gb of ram, mainly for large pshop textures

rasmus

This is where someone comes in and tells you to do ram in sets of 3gb

Ruz

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090709173829AAHTJ4F
like this you mean:)

CompanionCube

rasmus wrote: »

This is where someone comes in and tells you to do ram in sets of 3gb

only if its an i7 system, if not then in sets of 2gb

JohnnyRaptor

yeah i got a good ol quadcore from em with 8 gig of ram and a nvidia 260 card and shit is running like greased lightning in a hurry! zb, ps, max and tons of other jib jab in the background at the same time no probs. and it was for less than 700, so u should be able to get better cheaper now! woo wee

danr

you're gonna get a lot of people telling you you're going to save tons of money if you build this thing yourself, blah blah blah. However i used pcspecialist for a new machine recently, they were a complete joy, and i think i only spent an extra hundred quid or so over what i would building the pc myself, which most certainly would NOT have been a joy (but then i am a total cackhanded flid when it comes to the insides of machines).

so yeah, pcspecialist = good choice

teatime

if you want a prebuilt system I would highly recommend the stuff at overclockers.co.uk:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/syscon_class.php?groupid=43&catid=1053

Ruz

ok cheers guys. yeah danr, I have built my own machines in the past and they always have little glitches here and there.
I am pretty cackhanded myself.

I suppose I should go for the vista ultimate 64bit with windows 7 upgrade option.
Processor (CPU)


Intel® Core™2 Quad Q9550 (2.83GHz) 1333MHz FSB/12MB Cache

Memory (RAM)


8GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (4x2GB)

Motherboard


ASUS® P5QL: DDR2, SATAII, PCI-e x16, 3 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1

Operating System


Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit + Windows 7 Upgrade Voucher (£86)

USB Options


8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD

Memory - 1st Hard Disk


250GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk


NONE

1st CD/DVD Drive


22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

2nd CD/DVD Drive


NONE

Graphics Card


512MB NVIDIA GEFORCE 9800GTX+ PCI EXPRESS

2nd Graphics Card


NONE

Sound Card


ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Modem


NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND

Network Facilities


WIRELESS N 300Mbps PCI CARD (£16)

Floppy Disk Drive


NONE

Memory Card Reader


NONE

Case


STYLISH PIANO BLACK FUSION CASE inc. 2 FRONT USB

Power Supply & Case Cooling


350W Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan

Processor Cooling


ARCTIC COOLING FREEZER 7 PRO QUIET INTEL CPU COOLER (£19)

Firewire & Video Editing


NONE

TV Card


NONE

Monitor


19 Inch Wide TFT Silver/Black 1440 x 900 5MS, D-Sub, DVI, Audio (£79)

2nd Monitor


NONE

GeForce 3D Vision


NONE

DVI Cable


NONE

Keyboard & Mouse


NONE

Mouse


NONE

Speakers


NONE

Webcam


NONE

Headsets (VOIP)


NONE

Surge Protection


NONE

Printer


NONE

Anti-Virus


NONE

Office Software


NONE

External Hard Drive


NONE

Home Installation


NONE

Warranty


1 Year Return-to-Base incl 1st Month Free Collect & Return

Delivery


STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build Time


Standard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days

Quantity


1


This came to 757 quid

Mark Dygert

That looks great Ruz. Not a bad price either, you could have easily spent more and gotten worse some place else.

Of course if you pieced it to together, you would have saved a bit. BUT there is something to be said for just picking it up and taking it home. Plus someone else being on the hook for when and if it melts down.

JFletcher

Damn thats a good deal..

i'll have to check that out, might get exactly what you got, been meaning to switch to a pc. (im running on a laptop atm, with only a 2.0 core2 duo and 2gb ram.. OUCH! About 2-3 years old now i think)

Marine

I'd ditch the monitor and spend a bit more on a larger screen, but aside from that, seems like a nice system

JohnnyRaptor

yeah looks like a solid build ruz, gonna be sweet.

personally id ditch the monitor and get a better gfxcard, gf 260 or 275, should be around same price if u remove the screen.

Ruz

yeah will have to think about the monitor. might even pick up a second hand one
I only use the second one for reference pics anyway

danr

heh, yeah, it'd be good to see a pc geek tot all those parts up and see what the total for build-it-yourself would be

Ruz

well i am not going to build it myself this time as last time I took the cpu out of the egg shaped box and it fell on the floor, breaking one of the pins.
agggh how I screamed. They kindly replaced it though

CompanionCube

try get a graphics card with 1GB of video memory

mdeforge

Only a 250 GB hard drive? Not sure if you install games and stuff too, but that's not too much if your working with large photoshop textures. At least in my experience.

Ruz

well I have 2 external hard drives, so the 250Gb is just for current projects and software

Cody

I think 350watt PSU is a bit low. I'm running a 550 on an older system. I think you should get a 500watt minimum, prob get a 600 or higher if you have the cash. This way you can add on more hard drives and graphics cards down the road if you want. PSU is one thing you don't want to skimp on.

mdeforge

well I have 2 external hard drives, so the 250Gb is just for current projects and software

Ah, that makes sense then.

I just looked up how much 757 quid is in dollars and that's $1266! Holy crap! That is a lot for those parts. Seriously, I'm spending $1000 on a system in the fall, and from what I have it priced out as now, it's a core i7, 8GB Ram, A terabyte harddrive, and an Radeon HD 4895 (I think? Just going off of memory).

I know you said you dont mind the $100 difference, but this is more than a $100. Plus, wouldn't you rather turn around and put the money back into parts if 757 pounds is your budget?

Mark Dygert

danr wrote: »

heh, yeah, it'd be good to see a pc geek tot all those parts up and see what the total for build-it-yourself would be

Processor
Intel® Core™2 Quad Q9550 (2.83GHz) 1333MHz FSB/12MB Cache
newegg.com: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz $219.99

Memory (RAM)
8GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (4x2GB)
newegg.com: CORSAIR XMS2 DHX 8GB $179.00

Motherboard
ASUS® P5QL: DDR2, SATAII, PCI-e x16, 3 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1
newegg.com: ASUS P5QL PRO $86.99

Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit + Windows 7 Upgrade Voucher (£86)
newegg.com: Vista Home Premium $224.99
(this bundle deal is all over the place but if you're building your own you're stuck paying full price. Take this off the total and its closer to what he is actually paying)

1st Hard Disk
250GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
newegg.com: 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA $45.99

1st CD/DVD Drive
22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
newegg.com: LG Black 22X DVD $24.99

Graphics Card
512MB NVIDIA GEFORCE 9800GTX+ PCI EXPRESS
newegg.com: GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB $129.99

Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Included with MoBo

Network Facilities
WIRELESS N 300Mbps PCI CARD (£16)
newegg.com: Desktop Adapter Up to 300Mbps $79.99

Case
STYLISH PIANO BLACK FUSION CASE inc. 2 FRONT USB
newegg.com: Black Steel ATX case$99.99

Power Supply & Case Cooling
350W Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
newegg.com: Thermaltake Litepower W0292RU 350W $46.88

Processor Cooling
ARCTIC COOLING FREEZER 7 PRO QUIET INTEL CPU COOLER (£19)
newegg.com: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro $31.98

Monitor
19 Inch Wide TFT Silver/Black 1440 x 900 5MS, D-Sub, DVI, Audio (£79)
newegg.com: SAMSUNG 943BWT Matte Black 19" 5ms Widescreen $189.99

Newegg.com Grand Total: $1460.66 (860.731 GBP)

Probably could have scouted around for some slightly better deals but over all what he's getting is at a pretty decent price.

MM

if u plan to work on photoshop a lot then u need a second/separate hard drive as scratch disk. it needs to be a separate hard drive and not just a separate partition.

mdeforge

Huh, he is getting a good deal, that's for sure. Nice job pricing that out

While he is getting a deal there, I still think spending the same amount on a core i7 system would give him a better computer overall, for about the same price. The Core i7 out preforms the Q9550 in all areas except gaming, and there it's tied.

mdeforge

LG 22X DVD +/- R $24.99

Antec Solo Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 89.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3250318AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 45.99

ASUS VH226H Black 21.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 169.99

PNY VCG98GTXPXPB GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 129.99

Thermaltake Litepower W0292RU 350W ATX12V 2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply 46.88

CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 244.99

GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD4P LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard 259.99

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor 279.99

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 - Retail 224.99

Total: $1517

Ater Rebates: $1447

Well, it's less than the newegg build for the computer you have spec'd out, but it's definitely not as less as what that one site is offering you for it. I'm not exactly happy with the build either, but hey, I wiped it up in 10 minutes

A few guides that have been posted here before but should be reviewed:

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/04/ars-technica-system-guide-april-2009-edition.ars/2

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/04/ars-technica-system-guide-april-2009-edition.ars

Snefer

Hmm.. I would definately go for a minimum of 500W power though. I think the GeForce 9800GTX and quadcore want a few hundred each, if I recall correctly. I got a quadcore + 9800GTX and I have a 600W powersupply.

mdeforge

Not necessarily. If it's 80 certified, it should be fine. This was a concern I had when looking at the Ars Technica's Hot Rod build. They had all these high ends parts but a 380W power supply. I wrote the guy and google'd around and it was confirmed.

Here's a quote from the hot build page:

Finding a suitable power supply for the Hot Rod is no longer the chore it once was; the tricky part now is trying to find a quality one that isn't hideously oversized for the relatively modest amount of power that the Hot Rod draws.
At a little under 11 amps on the +12v rail (130W combined total per Xbitlabs) for the video card, a piddling 3 amps on the +12v (under 34W per Xbitlabs) for the processor, under 1.5 amps on the +12v rail (under 21W peak combined total per StorageReview) for the hard disk; sum it all up along with the motherboard, memory, DVD-RW, fans, etc. and the power consumption of the Hot Rod is within the reach of a good quality 300W power supply that can deliver sufficient +12v current.


However, finding a power supply that small that has all of the power connectors we need is a little tough; even most sub-400W power supplies lack a second PCIe power connector. Hot Rod builders intent on SLI or Crossfire have an even tougher time trying to find the four PCIe power connectors they'll probably need on anything smaller than 750W or so, when for them 450W or 500W is probably more than enough.

We relent to reality as a result (although if someone would design and build a good quality sub-400W power supply with enough PCIe power connectors...) and figure that using a dual-molex-to-PCIe power adapter for the second PCIe power connection our graphics card requires isn't the end of the world. Looking at the Seasonic S12 II 330W, 380W, and 430W models, plus their competition, the Corsair VX450, the Antec Earthwatts EA380, and the very efficient, if somewhat pricey, Enermax Pro82+ 385W shows we have some pretty good models to choose from. Studying efficiency curves at SilentPCReview, JonnyGuru, HardOCP, and Anandtech shows the Seasonic S12 II 380W is smack in the fattest part of its efficiency curve for the Hot Rod and is probably a good choice, although the 330W version would probably do the trick, too.
For less demanding systems, the reliable, reasonably quiet, and affordable PSUs from Sparkle/Fortron-Source, such as the SAGA+ 400R (350W), are great values that save a few bucks if you don't plan to pack a high-end video card around.



The Seasonic S12 II 380W is one of the better units available in terms of quality, noise, and reliability. A 120mm fan for low noise, dual +12v rails with 17A/17A capacity (27A combined maximum), 80PLUS certification, a 5 year warranty, and a MTBF of 100,000 hours makes for a very nice feature list. 330W is about as small as high-end power supplies come, yet still provides plenty of expansion headroom.

Here's the response I got back when I wrote the author of the article about my concerns:

The Seasonic S12 II 380W works fine.

Video card makers are simply covering their *sses with oversized PSU requirements in an effort to reduce support calls and to help weed out customers with $20 "500watt" power supplies and the like. We even specifically did one test earlier this year right here in the forum, I ran a Radeon HD 4870 1GB (which actually takes slightly more power than the GTX275, if memory serves) and a quad-core Q9300 off an Antec Earthwatts EA380, and it was well within the PSU's capability.

The SP500 should be fine as well. This is really a question you are better off posting in Case and Cooling rather than asking me directly. (and hopefully current Antec Smartpowers are more reliable than the previous ones...)

Thanks for reading.