Maya or Max?
polycounter lvl 8
Hello.
I've been using/learning Maya 8.5 for about 7-8 months now in my sparetime and getting in a better workflow now. Also been using Zbrush as a complement.
I know there are alot of users for both products out there but most "addons" tutorials, dvd and such are for 3D Max. (Ok, I have found much Maya stuff too but not as near as much as Max stuff)
Also I've seen alot of posts in forums about the benefits of using Max instead of Maya and vise verca.
I want to work as an 3D modeler for games preferly in Sweden or Denmark.
What's best to know Max or Maya, both or some other software ( to me it seems like Max and Maya are the once that are used the most)
What is the benefits of using Max VS Maya? Workflow, functions, addons, others?
If you can tell me what you think is the best part from own experiance using the programs.
I've been using/learning Maya 8.5 for about 7-8 months now in my sparetime and getting in a better workflow now. Also been using Zbrush as a complement.
I know there are alot of users for both products out there but most "addons" tutorials, dvd and such are for 3D Max. (Ok, I have found much Maya stuff too but not as near as much as Max stuff)
Also I've seen alot of posts in forums about the benefits of using Max instead of Maya and vise verca.
I want to work as an 3D modeler for games preferly in Sweden or Denmark.
What's best to know Max or Maya, both or some other software ( to me it seems like Max and Maya are the once that are used the most)
What is the benefits of using Max VS Maya? Workflow, functions, addons, others?
If you can tell me what you think is the best part from own experiance using the programs.
Replies
But aside from that, yes as you've already noticed plugins and tutorials are much more numerous for Max than Maya. That is probably one of the largest benefits of using Max over Maya.
From my own point of view and experience. I started out in 3D with Maya and it wasn't too hard to learn or get things done. I used Maya in my first job in the game industry.
Once that job fell through I took the downtime as an opportunity to learn Max. It might be that I already had a pretty decent background in 3D, but I found many things much easier to accomplish in Max.
Having learned Max also opened up many doors for me to find work. So in my case knowing both Max and Maya has helped me find work.
If I was able to choose which one I wanted to use at a studio I would choose Max because I believe it to be a more capable modeler. I don't do any animation or rigging so I have no opinion as to which is better for that.
Now with the downturn in work I've picked up Modo which is a great modeler and I like it even more than Max, however I wouldn't recommend learning Modo as your first main 3D app simply because it isn't very widely used in the industry.
I suggest picking one and sticking with it until you are very comfortable making game assets with it. Then pick up the other one and learn it as well, once you know one really well learning the other one is pretty easy. Since you've already invested a lot of time with Maya it may be better to stick with it.
Sorry I've got no clue as to what app is more prevalent in Sweden or Denmark. You should take a look at the studios that you want to work at and try to find out what software they use, it might be a good idea to learn their app of choice.
In the end though all you really need is a great portfolio. If your artwork is good enough a studio will hire you regardless of what apps you know and train you to use the one they want.
I think Maya is generally considered a more intuitive program to use. Additionally, some game studios are Maya centric because they've set up their game editor to work directly inside of a Maya viewport. I know this was done for Killzone 2, and I suspect it's being done for Uncharted 2.
So I would say that it depends most on the kind of work you want to do. If you want to work as a weapons and vehicles specialist, you will want to pick up Max. Most likely you would want to use Maya for characters. For general environment art it seems like a toss-up, although for sci-fi environments I think there would be a significant advantage to using Max.
Some Key advantages I see in max:
Modifiers:
One of the biggest lacks in any other package (well blender adopts here slowly) is the genius modifier concept. It makes max so powerful for modeling and often gives you the ability to move forward and backward with certain workflows (e.g mapping, rigging, modeling,...).
I just love adding a edit Poly modifier in between of my stack to add some details in the model or test out some things - and then simply swap visibility of that modifier just like a photoshop layer.
Instance, Reference
It lets you reference a object and add additional modifiers on it that will not affect the original object. So for example sometimes I reference a model and place it in another view and add a symmetry modifier and turbo smooth modifier on top of the reference- that way I can work and watch low poly and subdevision model at the same time. Its super powerful,- sadly most other packages only know copy and instance
UV Mapping
Well its a bit crappy these days compared to Modo, UvLayout and some other tools but back in the days compared to maya or anything else it was the only solution that was usable. Even the preserve UV while modeling is very powerful so most times Max is just very robust on the bases when it comes to UV. Many other packages often only offer a fragment of what max can in this area although like mentioned the interface could use some refinements.
RTT (render to texture)
Not sure about maya here,- but I know that turtle (a maya plugin for baking) is often considered for maya to even do such things you can do in max right away. There are plenty or types you can bake (normal, AO, spec,...) and not in a linear way but very flexible way.
I used RTT things not just for retopo stuff but also complex camera mapping or projection stuff that would not been possible with solutions from other packages like modo or blender. And the best of all: if you have to do it frequent you can even script with it so that it does what you need in a quicker way.
Scripting
This says it all:
http://scriptspot.com/3ds-max-main
you can access 99.9% of everything you see and work with in max and wrap it in interfaces, functions, macro scripts (so you can map it to shortcuts,..), batch scripts and many many other things. I know many studios that used maxscript to export their game data, or to write tools to easier edit skinning, mapping or for level desiging tasks.
Its very easy to start with using the macro recorder and there is a ton of scripts even for older max releases that even work today and are very useful.
I use it myself more and more for my engines and game projects to export levels, models and bake or convert texture maps.
Some annoying disadvantages max has:
big fat, sometimes retarded and bloated
they put each year more and more plugins into the old core and advertise each time the new additions. Advanced users however often complain about stability and performance issues that it comes with each time.
Sometimes you even have the feeling that advanced users are completely ignored by autodesk and instead they are targeting more and more simple users (non power users) like architects (see the MR stuff, Daylight, metrics,..).
What would be nice is a clean CUT from the old dated stuff that it still ships with, like modifers and plugins no one really uses anymore. Also a recode of the whole event system, Engine and GUI would be nice to really migrate to modern computers (64 bit, GUI standards (tabs, liquid, psychology,...) it still has this touch of winNT 4.0.
buggy releases
basicly it goes like this: every 2nd release is a buggy beta and they add new stuff that the community gives feedback about and they fix it then with the next release to cash again. Which means that only every 2nd release is a stable release the other ones are usually buggy and crash a lot with the new additions (or slow).
A good example is the current 2010 release which is buggy and bad whereas the next release most likely will address all the bad side effects of the new functions. Most note worthy right now is the GUI with the max2010 version which is full of GUI design errors and horrible performance. Its also inconcsistent with the design with the Graphite modeling toolbar.
I this regards I can also really recommend this thread which is about a batch script that removes all the CRAP out of max 2009 so it works amazing fast and speedy:
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=63739
All in all however I still like max because it is just so immense powerful in creation like modeling, mapping, skinning, rendering,... except perhaps animation. But if you are an evironment artist max is a very good packages to pick up.
Also if you are a developer and work with lots of experimental stuff Its also very powerful (e.g particle flow, hair and fur mesh generation, reactor,...).
Try them both, play around see which one you have any easier time wrapping your head around (because they are both ridiculously bloated at this point), then pick one, and worry about the important stuff, like making good art.
I've been tempted to try Max for a while and I'm now more convinced that I should.
Sure Maya is nice and I have lot still to learn (I know the basics or something around basics atleast) I have a non-ready portfolio at http://www.bloodmoon.se with Maya and other crap hehe. I'm going to remove ALOT of the work there soon since it's not very good in my own oppinion and others hehe.
I want to make 3D props, environments for next-gen and such sure charater modeling would be nice but that's not what I want to focus on right now. (Note my work is not yet "next-gen" I know).
I was recently in the same boat as you. I had been learning Maya for the past 3 years with a focus on modeling, and just last week I decided that I should at least try Max to see if I liked it. Well, after just these past two weeks of working with it I already prefer it over Maya for modeling. The modifier system is really great for making new/tough shapes.
Before making the switch I was concerned that the learning curve was going to be intense and take me a long while before I really learned the ins and outs. I was surprised to find how easy it was to switch from Maya. Obviously it will take some time to learn the new buttons and where everything is, but i think once you learn that you will also prefer it over Maya
I would really encourage you to at least try it out. Learning another 3d program will also open more job possibilities in future.
Simplest answer is to try both, see which you like more.
More studios use Max, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't accommodate you with a copy of Maya (or XSI, or whatever other app you prefer)
Both apps have their advantages and disadvantages, so like I said, just try both of them on for size.
I've taken a similar route. I did my first serious work on lightwave actually, and I still keep some of its workflow and shortcuts in my max and maya hotkeys.
From my experience Max and Maya are both very powerful programs, and both are can turn out absolutely stellar work. Max's largest benefits are its modifier stack and turbosmooth.. and other smaller things are nice but not anywhere near as different.
Maya's absolutely HUGE advantage is its node based interface and MEL.
MaxScript and MEL are both ridiculously powerful languages for scripting and control and such. Personally I prefer MEL's syntax etc. Since maya is basically built on MEL, and is many things in the program are built as nodes with input and output connections, there is a LOT of power very easily exposed, though you DO have to look for it a little. (ie open up the script editor and turn on echo all commands to see everything)
With either language it basically holds that "if there isn't already a tool for it, you can make one" but I find that maya is faster and easier to find the right command (or commands) for what you want to do. (That could be experience though. Been using maya longer)
The node architecture makes rigging setups for animation much much easier than in max.
Also I find Maya's UV editor to be much easier to use and more powerful than max's default one (at least given maya 8 vs max 9 not sure about the latest releases)
They're both extremely powerful programs, and it certainly doesn't hurt to know how to use both of them well.
I think that Max has an edge when it comes to polygon modeling, and maya has an edge when it comes to animation.
Both programs has its advantages and disadvantages. Try both, or learn both
cheers