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Next gen texturing techniques

Hey guys, I'm looking for a tutorial or some sort of rough guide to get me up and running with todays tech's for texturing. As far as I know you have your diffuse, spec, normal map and sub dermal and all that.

I've been using max for quite a long time (3 years later - Ever since I was thirteen. That is the reason I'm just now looking into the proffesional techniques)

I'm just not exactly sure how to go about creating the specular maps. I know what they look like but not sure of how to make them. I can do diffuse obviously, normal maps, Ambient occlusion but I'm not sure how to do specs. Is there a rough guide with somones workflow or anything?

Thanks again.

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  • glynnsmith
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    glynnsmith polycounter lvl 17
    Doesn't Eat3D have a DVD with that exact name? :P

    Worth a shot if their other stuff's anything to go by.
  • tadpole3159
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    tadpole3159 polycounter lvl 12
    glynnsmith wrote: »
    Doesn't Eat3D have a DVD with that exact name? :P

    Worth a shot if their other stuff's anything to go by.
    i have that dvd. after just the intro i went from struggling amateur to..well..happy amateur :)
    here we are
    http://eat3d.com/texturing
    its pretty cheep too
  • Mark Dygert
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    LoM Chaos wrote: »
    Hey guys, I'm looking for a tutorial or some sort of rough guide to get me up and running with todays tech's for texturing. As far as I know you have your diffuse, spec, normal map and sub dermal and all that.
    Pet Peeve: Next gen, refers to the NEXT generation, not the current generation. Your thread title is asking for advice on tech that hasn't been invented yet. It's a buzz term that needs to die... The current gen has been around for what 3-4 years? That term is being used by old fat politicians... It's gone about as far as a buzz word can. It needs to die a quick painful death. Please stop shocking it back to life and just let it go. It really wants to die...
    LoM Chaos wrote: »
    I'm just not exactly sure how to go about creating the specular maps. I know what they look like but not sure of how to make them. I can do diffuse obviously, normal maps, Ambient occlusion but I'm not sure how to do specs. Is there a rough guide with someones workflow or anything.
    Spec maps control the shine on something, its a mask. The shine in games is a crappy representation of a reflection, normally meant to fake a specific light source. You can sometimes use a color map to tint the color of that shine, but by in large the tint comes from the lighting.

    As for how to make those masks, it really depends on the material and the model. Because there are different types of specularity, there are different techniques and tricks that get used. Even within the category of "metal" there is a wide range of specularity that you have to recreate.

    The best technique I've seen anyone use so far, is to research the object and recreate it's properties as best as possible. Nothing really makes up for experience and practice, except... experience and practice. There are a few things that help along the way but they're just nudges.

    As a general tip, it can help to increase the spec on the edges of objects like on the edges of raised plates on a metal object. Even though "mathematically" the spec should be the same, it really helps highlight the edges and sell the normal map.

    Also here is a great walk through for hard surface texturing.
    http://www.game-artist.net/forums/spotlight-articles/42-tutorial-hard-surface-texture-painting.html

    So once you dig into it more it will be a question of "how do I make a spec map for XYZ object?"
  • slave_one
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    slave_one polycounter lvl 18
    Vig wrote: »
    Pet Peeve: Next gen, refers to the NEXT generation, not the current generation. It's a buzz term that needs to die... a quick painful death. Please stop shocking it back to life and just let it go. It really wants to die...

    Amen Vig, I been hearing the next gen thing for over 10 years now, never liked it .. Unfortunately .. there is no stopping the next gen .. so it seems :S

    LoM, did you check out racer445's weapon creation tutorial? (I'am not 100% spec is handled in there but I think it is). And as Vig said, greatly dependent on the material definition.

    (that eat3d dvd looks pretty nice btw)
  • Zwebbie
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    Zwebbie polycounter lvl 18
    You know, I hate to ruin people's happy dreams, but I always think that if you have a lot of trouble with this sort of stuff, you might have a better time learning if you go back to old gen, diffuse only texturing. It's much easier to get a good feel for specularity when it's just a lighter blotch on another colour blotch and you can actually paint what you see. Once you know what the result should look like and how it's achieved, specular maps shouldn't be too hard, but they're a nasty way to learn how it all works.

    That's just me, though.
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    Read all this shit:
    http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/cg_education.htm

    Specifically this one:
    http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/metal_and_refs/metal_and_refs.htm

    After that, understand that different materials reflect light differently (looking at some photos or going outside is good for this).
  • Taylor Hood
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    I'm interested in all this stuff about how it works and all. I appreciate it. But I'm looking for, well, basically how you turn the knobs and dials in photoshop to make a specular map? Do you know what I mean?

    Thanks agan tho. : )
  • Mark Dygert
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    LoM Chaos wrote: »
    I'm interested in all this stuff about how it works and all. I appreciate it. But I'm looking for, well, basically how you turn the knobs and dials in photoshop to make a specular map? Do you know what I mean?

    Thanks agan tho. : )
    Right... well in that case. Paint bucket fill it with black. I guess school is out for the summer... sigh.
  • Taylor Hood
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    .. :/ Specifics please.
  • Mark Dygert
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    Lets try math, since English isn't working.
    Ghostscape wrote: »
    Read all this shit:
    http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/cg_education.htm

    Specifically this one:
    http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/metal_and_refs/metal_and_refs.htm

    After that, understand that different materials reflect light differently (looking at some photos or going outside is good for this).
    ^This + this + Practice = win.

    Asking for specifics + not knowing what spec is = fail.

    Before you start creating, you need to first understand what it is you're trying to create. Until you get that under your cap I suggest leaving the spec pure black.
  • Taylor Hood
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    I've always known that the spec is usually a grey scale image most of the time with lighter parts to indicate the parts that are shiny. Sometimes blue tints can be applied to make it look better and such.

    I'm listening to what your saying, Vig, I don't mean to be rude. I'm gonna read everything you guys have linked.
  • Racer445
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    Racer445 polycounter lvl 12
    Zwebbie wrote: »
    You know, I hate to ruin people's happy dreams, but I always think that if you have a lot of trouble with this sort of stuff, you might have a better time learning if you go back to old gen, diffuse only texturing. It's much easier to get a good feel for specularity when it's just a lighter blotch on another colour blotch and you can actually paint what you see. Once you know what the result should look like and how it's achieved, specular maps shouldn't be too hard, but they're a nasty way to learn how it all works.

    That's just me, though.

    No, that's my way of thinking too.

    By doing diffuse only you force yourself to define your materials manually and put in everything that the texture needs for it to look good, instead of just letting the fancy lighting do everything for you. Once you learn how the material acts, the same stuff you did to define that material can be adapted to work with spec maps etc.

    I think a lot of people jump into the new stuff with the fancy shaders and whatnot too soon without actually learning how materials act, or learning any of the basics.
  • butt_sahib
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    butt_sahib polycounter lvl 11
    vig made me lol
  • dejawolf
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    dejawolf polycounter lvl 18
    LoM Chaos wrote: »
    I'm interested in all this stuff about how it works and all. I appreciate it. But I'm looking for, well, basically how you turn the knobs and dials in photoshop to make a specular map? Do you know what I mean?

    Thanks agan tho. : )

    uh-huh. this is art man, use the paintbrush.
    best way: paint a diffuse map. then copy this picture into a new one with _spec at the end,
    and adjust brightness contrast until you got a nice specular base. then further adjust the parts that will be more shiny, and the ones that won't. all brightness contrast.
    but really, if you don't understand how specular works, prepare to be dissapointed by the result.
    put very bluntly, your work will look like shit.
    also, sharpen is your friend.
  • Zack Fowler
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    Zack Fowler polycounter lvl 11
    There is no simple "create specular map" filter you can run a texture through in Photoshop. There is an abundance of techniques available for getting a wide variety of different results.

    You can't create proper specular maps without understanding what specular light is and how it works. Once you've done enough research to have a decent grasp of lighting concepts and theory, then you should try creating some specular maps for a few different materials. At that point people can give you specific feedback, but not before.

    Besides, memorizing a process without understanding the theory behind it will stunt your growth as an artist. For something as fundamental as specular lighting you need to learn the theory first and then work on how you apply it.
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    Vig wrote: »
    Right... well in that case. Paint bucket fill it with black. I guess school is out for the summer... sigh.
    LoM Chaos wrote: »
    .. :/ Specifics please.

    Fire up photoshop.

    Press Ctrl-N.
    fill in the height and width with 512 pixels each.

    hit OK.

    Press D.

    click and hold the gradient tool, scroll down to the paint bucket tool, release.

    Click anywhere on the scene.

    Save as name_specular.tga

    Seriously, there is no "knobs and dials" that gets you a spec map. You can quickly make one if you build your diffuse map so that all the materials, wear, etc, are broken out on different layers, so you can quickly adjust each one, rather than needing to paint and isolate them.
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
  • Racer445
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    Racer445 polycounter lvl 12
    Johny wrote: »
    i use brain.

    were can i find dl link 4 brain app plz tell me!1
  • Seaseme
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    Seaseme polycounter lvl 8
    I seriously recommend the eat3d tutorials if you're just starting out. He lays it out pretty nicely.

    Or just use Vig's technique.
  • Taylor Hood
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    Only starting out in specular maps and some AO. I am reading the stuff. I might go ahead and just get the Eat3D Dvd's hmm, are they in dollars?
  • Seaseme
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    Seaseme polycounter lvl 8
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    Johny wrote: »
    i use brain.

    plz giev torretns
  • HellMark
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    HellMark polycounter lvl 18
    Definitely recommend the Eat3D tutorials. The texturing DVD is great. Also part 2 of the fountain is coming out later which covers doing the low poly and texturing that. I'm sure it'll have great information to learn from in addition to what was covered in the texturing DVD.

    Mark
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    Vig wrote: »
    Pet Peeve: Next gen, refers to the NEXT generation, not the current generation. Your thread title is asking for advice on tech that hasn't been invented yet. It's a buzz term that needs to die... The current gen has been around for what 3-4 years? That term is being used by old fat politicians... It's gone about as far as a buzz word can. It needs to die a quick painful death. Please stop shocking it back to life and just let it go. It really wants to die...

    fine and all but in this generation we have sort-of advanced machines and on the other end of the spectrum we've got the Wii which is more like the year 2001's news from a GFX-technology point of view. to discern between those we still use the term next-gen all over the office for everything PS3/X360 related. i think it's still valid, no new machines announced anyway. what would a more catchy alternative term be like? :)
  • Zack Fowler
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    Zack Fowler polycounter lvl 11
    That just helps to illustrate why it's a bastardized phrase. The Wii is a next-gen machine, or at least it was when it released. It's not high end or high definition, but that's not what next-gen means. SD and HD work well enough to distinguish between Wii graphics and 360/PS3 graphics.

    The next console generation hasn't been teased yet but we all know it's coming. Better to drop that problematic phrase now than start getting mixed up once there actually is another generation of hardware to talk about.
  • sebas
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    sebas polycounter lvl 14
    Here's a link about creating a specular map that it really helped me (three years ago) to understand the basics but, remember, this is just one way...
    http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/ArtReference_SpecularMaps
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