I dont think the setting bothers me as much as his new look. He went from looking like a undercover New York cop to a suicide bomber. That's a huge change in the character's design aesthetics. I know dude is going incognito, but from the neck down...it just feels like a blank slate. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I just dont like the new direction they took the Max Payne character himself.
But if your family was slaughter by hitmen, if you were an emotional wreck for years, had a year long drug addiction to painkillers, and a chronic alcoholic to boot, soon you would look like that. Max Payne has always been on the downward spiral and his attitude, looks, and mentally reflects that. It's just that now you know he's finally hit bottom with his new appearance. Do you think he gives a shit about his appearance after the hell he went through during his years on the force?. He's older now and really doesn't give a shit anymore. He looked different in MP2 and the way he looks now as a older man makes sense to me.
i think its worth mentioning actually, looking back on it- the max payne 2 model didnt really look like max payne, either from the first game or the max payne 2 cut scenes, apart from the clothes. still, its the max 1 + cutscene max we really recognise, and the new guy just doesnt resemble him. pretty sure its not just the hairdo either
Max Payne 1 guy was just the Remedy developer / writer, Sam Lake.
Max Payne 2 guy is Timothy Gibbs.
They could afford a more beliveable actor for the second installment which makes sense.
I actually like the direction of the character - old, bald, with a slight beer belly and all that. dont know about that south american setting though. by the way, this shot is a little more classic :P
I never played MP or MP2 - They have always been on my list of games Id like to play, and I was pretty intrigued by the screens from MP3 and plan to get it soon. Since the debate about how different the games are, I was wondering if it would even be worth playing the first 2 before getting MP3... Obviously they are older games, but Im sure still plenty enjoyable.
But if your family was slaughter by hitmen, if you were an emotional wreck for years, had a year long drug addiction to painkillers, and a chronic alcoholic to boot, soon you would look like that. Max Payne has always been on the downward spiral and his attitude, looks, and mentally reflects that. It's just that now you know he's finally hit bottom with his new appearance. Do you think he gives a shit about his appearance after the hell he went through during his years on the force?. He's older now and really doesn't give a shit anymore. He looked different in MP2 and the way he looks now as a older man makes sense to me.
Naa...you kinda missed what I was getting at. Maybe I didnt clarify enough. The bald bearded look I actually dig, but from his neck down it felt like they could have pushed the design a bit more. I know that particular setting is probably hotter then ball sweat...but a wife beater, tan pants and a gun strap doesnt cream my twinkie. For the main character, and for Max fuckin Payne, I would expect more. It feels they concepted out his new look in a matter of 10 minutes...it feels rushed and unpolished. That's no disrespect to the designers/artists at all...it's just my personal opinion.
Stopped playing about 20 minutes from the end, only to finally finish it two years later. Like I didn't want the ending to be lame, so I just didn't finish it. But since I hadn't been immersed in the storyline, it was a bit disappointing... I set myself up.
I just got MP1 and MP2 last night (pretty decent deal on Steam). I made it thru the first couple chapters of 1, and Im very impressed so far. Granted, the game is a few years old now, but the game play and atmosphere are awesome... How did I miss this when it came out....?!? Oh, wait, school + full time job + part time job.... Good stuff either way, but I now see what the uproar is about with the style change....
I think I'm going to have to agree with the points made on the character design above. Yeah, the clothing may fit the setting and background story. But remember Max's outfit in the first game! Even AFTER his wife and kids got brutally murdered, he still had enough sense of style to wear a leather jacket on top of what appears to be an unbuttoned hawaiian shirt on top of a white shirt, with a silver pendant on a necklace. Dude's into layers!
Even in Max Payne 2, he still had the leather jacket, white shirt and a terribly noisy tie. Maybe the tie came off after he got hospitalized, I don't remember, but he still had some layers going on. And he ALWAYS wears dark pants. Why does the new Max wear brown pants?
Unless they're trying to disappoint people and set us up for some weird plot twist that involves him slowly becoming stylish again. At the end of chapter 4, the shaves his beard. After chapter 5, he buys a pair of black jeans and after 6, a proper white shirt. After 8, the leather jacket comes back... and then he dies from heat stroke.
Max's clothing in the first game was justified because he was undercover, hence the shirt and chain. Second game he was dressed like a normal hard boiled cop.
Basically my biggest problem is they took the cop out of max payne, which kind of made him max payne. Now he's just some dude killing people; I've played that game before.
Wow the waaaahhmbulence is on full alert! Lots of people talking about MP like its f'ing Star Wars.
Trust me I understand the gripes, fully, and i come at this with a concerned eye myself, but i keep reading the word "expected" (amongst other fearful shit) in this thread and i guess i'm a bit more ok with the unexpected than the average.
Hopefully they arent entirly just slapping the name on something.
Hopefully they arent entirly just slapping the name on something.
I'm being very critical, but that's mostly because it's fun, and very easy to do in this case. My problem is that that's everything they've given us to work with. Nothing the developers have shown us so far except the name seems to have any relevance to the old games. They're basically saying "Oh, look at these completely unrelated pictures we made". I would love to grab onto some positive things and cradle them and be hopeful, but they haven't given us anything to do that with. All we have is an overweight old man in Brazil and the name "Max Payne 3". Any and all hopes may I have for this game is pure speculation so far.
Rox: Yeah i have to realize that this is an artist forum so a lot of people are going to care about the hawiain shirt etc.... That really was my only issue with the gripes here-
because i think this new game can work so long as they keep the impression of Max Payne.
For me the impression wasn't the *Johnny Noxville inspired character but the grittyness and especially the whole trippy parts with the babies crying/bloody crib.. all the trippy stuff was FANTASTIC!. and then also like in the game i watched the Flamingo TV show thingy which was awessomly creative and creepy etc.. Also gameplay elements like the whole bullet time etc.. Basically there is this FEEL or ESSENSE of the game that i love
I'm sorry if blew up a bit but i guess i got a little frustrated that nobody is really bringing up those things i love like the trips... pill adiction grittyness... But instead are puting up screenshots of his hair and jacket and talking about his garments.
I could put up a TON of examples of games that have evolved like look at Mario Sunshine. But i really can't get into it. It would take too long.
Rox: Also i read the Game Informer article and dug (with my fingers crossed) for those aformentioned elements and sadly it looks like you may be right man. I'm hopefull and i will say they said they are pushing to be "the kings of bullet time once agian".. and i feel like the game could be like Max Payne in that regard with like bullet time dual-pistols from cover to cover. And i do believe the game will have a good level of "grit" to it. BUT i kept reading "He has moved on" Which is confusing to me because when i read "addicted to pills" i got all excited, but why is he addicted to them if he "has moved on" - which gives me the impression that they are basically saying its NOT going to have that sort of off the deep end madness the first ones had.
Hopefully it will be fun and have enough for me. We'll see.
* - I ALWAYS felt that GTA3 and Max Payne main characters were modeled off of (at that time) incredibly popular Jack Asses one and only Johnny Noxville. just my opinion there.
I was somewhat disappointed when, in the end of Max Payne 2,
it didn't turn out that he was crazy and imagining everything, all this crazy violence in his crazy insane asylum dreams. But maybe it was... I can pretend.
Also: spoilery Max Payne screenshot of awesome
Maybe Max will die in MP3, like he should have at the end of MP2. But he best go down with the old smile of a winner.
* - I ALWAYS felt that GTA3 and Max Payne main characters were modeled off of (at that time) incredibly popular Jack Asses one and only Johnny Noxville. just my opinion there.
Max Payne was modeled (heck, downright photosourced) from Sam Lake, Remedy's writer. He's also Max in the graphic novel. By part 2, Timothy Gibbs played Max and Lake played the lead roles in the TV series in the game.
Anyhow, I agree with you that the psychedelic dreams were absolutely the best parts of the game (save for the bloody baby trail in MP1, which pissed me off). It's funny how I remember the non-shooting levels of MP2 as absolutely the best levels in game design history. But to have the characters nightmares, you've got to have the character first - Max Payne isn't the kind of person that goes over-eating or training in the gym to build a body like he has in part 3, because he's suffering from (near?) depression. His job at the NYPD is keeping him busy to keep his mind off things... a bit anyway, until all the old nightmares come back when Mona shows up again. Even by his looks, he's a broken shell of a man. He's such a great contrast to a space marine.
The dream sequences mix the realist and dark world of New York and familiar locations with exotic and crazy elements like Jack Lupino's inner sanctum in RagnaRock and the Address Unknown funhouse. Rather like real dreams. Realistic locations, but there's something off and things you've experienced get mixed up. Without the setting of noir New York, where does the darkness of the dreams stem from? Just imagine a dream sequence based on the screenshots we've seen - there's no way they'd be as unnerving as in the previous parts.
Personally, I think you can best analyse the themes by the TV series in Max Payne 2. You've got Lords and Ladies, which is about sacrifice and love. You've got Dick Justice, which is a blatant parody of MP1, but with more afro. Then, you've got Address Unknown, which details the descent into madness of the protagonist and how he struggles to get through Noir York city.
Zwebbie: Awesome awesome. And i agree. I think you raise some good points and sadly yeah a lot of what your saying shatters my (possibly blinding) optimistic and hopeful attitude. And really what you have is questions for the designers which i wouldn't know where to begin to answer..... but i hope they have good ones.. And i wonder what theirs are! Sadly i felt like it was "he moved on" which i pretty much frowned over .
Cool thanks for educating me on the Sam Lake thing. I always felt like he looked a lot like Knoxville (same with GTA3) obviously with out any knowledge of what he was actually modeled after IF he was modeled after anything. For all i knew he was just made up. i dunno.
Right when i read your post i googled Sam Lake and whats hilarious is look at the 7th image over . Some guy on a forum showing a comparison of Lake and Knoxville.
Aw, I just wasted 20 minutes looking for a group photo of Remedy. I know it exists somewhere online, but I can't find it... It had the Max Payne team all dressed up as characters from the game, including Mr. Lake as Max Payne. I think every darn character texture in the game is photosourced from a dressed up employee. Which is awesome. And yeah, I've "felt" the Payne : Knoxville similarity plenty of times, myself.
8FtSpider, why exactly do you have the desire to kill yourself?
Replies
But if your family was slaughter by hitmen, if you were an emotional wreck for years, had a year long drug addiction to painkillers, and a chronic alcoholic to boot, soon you would look like that. Max Payne has always been on the downward spiral and his attitude, looks, and mentally reflects that. It's just that now you know he's finally hit bottom with his new appearance. Do you think he gives a shit about his appearance after the hell he went through during his years on the force?. He's older now and really doesn't give a shit anymore. He looked different in MP2 and the way he looks now as a older man makes sense to me.
Max Payne 1 guy was just the Remedy developer / writer, Sam Lake.
Max Payne 2 guy is Timothy Gibbs.
They could afford a more beliveable actor for the second installment which makes sense.
This might be worth a read.
http://maddieman.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/timothy-gibbs-is-max-payne-3-a-quick-analysis/
they slapped the "Max Payne" brand on GTA - Brazil
I never played MP or MP2 - They have always been on my list of games Id like to play, and I was pretty intrigued by the screens from MP3 and plan to get it soon. Since the debate about how different the games are, I was wondering if it would even be worth playing the first 2 before getting MP3... Obviously they are older games, but Im sure still plenty enjoyable.
any thoughts?
-N!
But the dude in MP2 didn't have one... \=
maybe that's why it still sits on my shelf, un-played, to this very day...
To do that, the games gotta have some strong meaning and effect. ^^
Naa...you kinda missed what I was getting at. Maybe I didnt clarify enough. The bald bearded look I actually dig, but from his neck down it felt like they could have pushed the design a bit more. I know that particular setting is probably hotter then ball sweat...but a wife beater, tan pants and a gun strap doesnt cream my twinkie. For the main character, and for Max fuckin Payne, I would expect more. It feels they concepted out his new look in a matter of 10 minutes...it feels rushed and unpolished. That's no disrespect to the designers/artists at all...it's just my personal opinion.
Stopped playing about 20 minutes from the end, only to finally finish it two years later. Like I didn't want the ending to be lame, so I just didn't finish it. But since I hadn't been immersed in the storyline, it was a bit disappointing... I set myself up.
-N!
Even in Max Payne 2, he still had the leather jacket, white shirt and a terribly noisy tie. Maybe the tie came off after he got hospitalized, I don't remember, but he still had some layers going on. And he ALWAYS wears dark pants. Why does the new Max wear brown pants?
Unless they're trying to disappoint people and set us up for some weird plot twist that involves him slowly becoming stylish again. At the end of chapter 4, the shaves his beard. After chapter 5, he buys a pair of black jeans and after 6, a proper white shirt. After 8, the leather jacket comes back... and then he dies from heat stroke.
Basically my biggest problem is they took the cop out of max payne, which kind of made him max payne. Now he's just some dude killing people; I've played that game before.
Trust me I understand the gripes, fully, and i come at this with a concerned eye myself, but i keep reading the word "expected" (amongst other fearful shit) in this thread and i guess i'm a bit more ok with the unexpected than the average.
Hopefully they arent entirly just slapping the name on something.
because i think this new game can work so long as they keep the impression of Max Payne.
For me the impression wasn't the *Johnny Noxville inspired character but the grittyness and especially the whole trippy parts with the babies crying/bloody crib.. all the trippy stuff was FANTASTIC!. and then also like in the game i watched the Flamingo TV show thingy which was awessomly creative and creepy etc.. Also gameplay elements like the whole bullet time etc.. Basically there is this FEEL or ESSENSE of the game that i love
I'm sorry if blew up a bit but i guess i got a little frustrated that nobody is really bringing up those things i love like the trips... pill adiction grittyness... But instead are puting up screenshots of his hair and jacket and talking about his garments.
I could put up a TON of examples of games that have evolved like look at Mario Sunshine. But i really can't get into it. It would take too long.
Rox: Also i read the Game Informer article and dug (with my fingers crossed) for those aformentioned elements and sadly it looks like you may be right man. I'm hopefull and i will say they said they are pushing to be "the kings of bullet time once agian".. and i feel like the game could be like Max Payne in that regard with like bullet time dual-pistols from cover to cover. And i do believe the game will have a good level of "grit" to it. BUT i kept reading "He has moved on" Which is confusing to me because when i read "addicted to pills" i got all excited, but why is he addicted to them if he "has moved on" - which gives me the impression that they are basically saying its NOT going to have that sort of off the deep end madness the first ones had.
Hopefully it will be fun and have enough for me. We'll see.
* - I ALWAYS felt that GTA3 and Max Payne main characters were modeled off of (at that time) incredibly popular Jack Asses one and only Johnny Noxville. just my opinion there.
Also: spoilery Max Payne screenshot of awesome
Maybe Max will die in MP3, like he should have at the end of MP2. But he best go down with the old smile of a winner.
Anyhow, I agree with you that the psychedelic dreams were absolutely the best parts of the game (save for the bloody baby trail in MP1, which pissed me off). It's funny how I remember the non-shooting levels of MP2 as absolutely the best levels in game design history. But to have the characters nightmares, you've got to have the character first - Max Payne isn't the kind of person that goes over-eating or training in the gym to build a body like he has in part 3, because he's suffering from (near?) depression. His job at the NYPD is keeping him busy to keep his mind off things... a bit anyway, until all the old nightmares come back when Mona shows up again. Even by his looks, he's a broken shell of a man. He's such a great contrast to a space marine.
The dream sequences mix the realist and dark world of New York and familiar locations with exotic and crazy elements like Jack Lupino's inner sanctum in RagnaRock and the Address Unknown funhouse. Rather like real dreams. Realistic locations, but there's something off and things you've experienced get mixed up. Without the setting of noir New York, where does the darkness of the dreams stem from? Just imagine a dream sequence based on the screenshots we've seen - there's no way they'd be as unnerving as in the previous parts.
Personally, I think you can best analyse the themes by the TV series in Max Payne 2. You've got Lords and Ladies, which is about sacrifice and love. You've got Dick Justice, which is a blatant parody of MP1, but with more afro. Then, you've got Address Unknown, which details the descent into madness of the protagonist and how he struggles to get through Noir York city.
Cool thanks for educating me on the Sam Lake thing. I always felt like he looked a lot like Knoxville (same with GTA3) obviously with out any knowledge of what he was actually modeled after IF he was modeled after anything. For all i knew he was just made up. i dunno.
Right when i read your post i googled Sam Lake and whats hilarious is look at the 7th image over
http://images.google.com/images?q=sam%20lake&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
Jesus i'm listening to 1up Podcast and they are talking about all this right now! hilarious.
8FtSpider, why exactly do you have the desire to kill yourself?
then you have a start.