Inept Doctors, What's your experience?
greentooth
After two years of having doctors tell me I'm fine, I more or less find out my collarbone has been torn away from my chest and healed askew. Problem is, any doctor worth his salt should have been able to see the injury in the 10+ x-ray, CT, and MRI scans I had.
My primary would rush me out of the office within 5 minutes, and the specialist said "you have cancer" before he said "hello", only to find out he was completely wrong and it was a shoulder/collarbone injury.
How are doctors able to get away with such 3rd rate service these days ? Anyone have similar experiences ?
My primary would rush me out of the office within 5 minutes, and the specialist said "you have cancer" before he said "hello", only to find out he was completely wrong and it was a shoulder/collarbone injury.
How are doctors able to get away with such 3rd rate service these days ? Anyone have similar experiences ?
Replies
Lots of the guys I know have knocked up their collarbone in a similar manner; we ride dirtbikes. Is it causing you any problems? That is, any that can't be fixed with a hammer and medical tape.
I gave up looking for help for tinnitus some years ago. According to their tests though, it does not affect my hearing, awesome indeed. But I got used to it somehow and it does not distract me as much as it used to.
But being unable to spot such an overt injury is another dimension.
Most GP's pack their schedule so tight they have to make a decision before they walk in the room. It's the only way they can make enough money to pay for the malpractice insurance, which ironically leads to more malpractice suits being filed... and higher premiums... They're also stuck having to paying for the cost of a sky rocketing education.
Especially now with all of their stock portfolios in the toilet they're rushing faster and faster.
Gotta find a good doc that listens. Probably someone who's paid off their loans and found a way to balance $ with actual care.
Also when the person takes you back and asks "how are you doing" they aren't being polite. They're taking a history and making notes. If you say "fine" just trying to hurry things along so you can get to the doc, the doc stands outside your room for 10s, reads "patient is fine" and decides you just wanted the day off work.
Also if you're down playing things so you don't look like a pussy, they'll assume its not much of an issue, you need to let them in on everything and maybe even play it up a bit. They're tolerance for this stuff is somewhere between "screaming in agony" and "my god my arm is in a cooler" before they think they should monkey with anything. Again with the fear of being sued.
It might sound weird but try to connect with them personally. They chances of them actually doing a quality job go up when they are personally invested in you. If you're just a bump in their schedule thats the kind of care you'll get.
Personally I found most ND (Naturopaths) give a crap about their patients, listen and invest personally in their health and overall well being. I also like that they don't jump all over the prescription wagon first chance they get. They're not out to liquefy your liver just to drop your cholesterol a few points.
Eventually after seing a shit-ton of doctors they realized it was a knee problem that should of been caught by doctors when I was a kid AND could of been corrected but is now damaged beyond repair. Can you sense the bitterness?
if your kid has flat feet, get that shit fixed now, I'm not looking forward to double knee replacement surgery in my retirement years.
I'm still going to see a doctor if I get sick, I had a bad case of pneumonia in the past and I probably would of died if I didn't seek help.
I don't like doctors and do as much as possible (weights, yoga, biking, eating right) to avoid them. I guess with an injury like yours you have to see someone I guess. Sorry to hear it. Hope it works out for you.
My general advice is this: Never take what the doctor says with full faith. Think about their advice, listen to your judgment, listen to your body, and then make your own decision.
I don't think the doctors are neccessarily careless or incompetent, but they work such long hours, and see so many people that eventually they get very run down. I remember when this surgeon had to perform surgery on my father's head, he said he had only gotten like 3 hours of sleep, and before that he had been working for 20 straight hours. These guys are exhausted.
I like following the political debates, when people talk about healthcare reform. And some guy will always stand up and say, "oh we have the best healthcare system in the world, and if the government takes it over it will ruin it". And I'm thinking, I pay exorbitant sums for mediocre service. What healthcare system are you talking about?
Oh oh, I just thought of this great example.
My mom once went to this new dentist cause she had some root problems (she's had root problems all her life). The clown didn't even look at the x-rays or anything, he comes to her and he's like "your tooth hurts cause you clench your teeth too much during sleep. I perform these meditation classes you should attend, and I'll help you loosen up." Needless to say we didn't go there again.
Anyway I got an infection right at the root of a tooth at the back of my mouth and it hurt like hell. The dentist gave me the option of root canal surgery or just pull it.
Since Root Canal surgery doesn't always work and the tooth was at the back of my mouth I thought pull it and get it over with.
So a week later I went to get it pulled and he spent 20minutes yanking on it to pull it out,without success,I said 'is it done yet?' he said 'Its amazingly not even moved'...WHAT!!...so he referred me to a sedation clinic to get the job finished...upon asking how long this would take (joy of the NHS) he said properly 2 weeks.
So 2 weeks pass and I hear nothing, im still in alot of pain (especially since its been yanked on for 20mins) and was eating on only one side of my mouth.
So I rang the clinic I was referred to who said your appointment hasn't even been processed at that I can't expect to be seen for at least 3 months.....lovely,....so i rang my dentist again grovelled then he put me on as an urgent appointment.
Two more weeks pass and I finally get a call to say a slot as become available come into the clinic and get the job done.
So i did....The operation went well, I felt fine and the tooth wasn't bleeding much and that should have been the end.
Only 2am the next morning i awoke in the night to find myself lying in a pool of blood. a 'ball' in my mouth,which was a actually a blood clot that had grown so large it just fell out of my mouth,I tried to rest for the remainder of the night and relax a despite the blood and hoped it would sort itself out.
At 7am the bleeding intensified further and so I rang the emergency number I had been given if any complications occurred from the OP,they simply said go to your local Accident and Emergency department. Which i did.
Once there they informed me there nothing they can do....its an oral issue and they have no-one qualified to deal with my problem on the weekends. So they just gave me a cotton stick thing full of adrenalin syrup or some such to help reduce the bleeding, It actually stopped the bleeding for all of half an hour....but it started again and I left the hospital with blood still pouring from my mouth.
We got home and we rang around just about every emergency dentist we could find and was open and we finally got one that would see me. Upon Arrival the dentist was shocked to see the state of me and how much I was actually bleeding from the mouth. I signed my life away (insurance forms) and went in to the dental room.....it took her 30minutes to contain the bleeding, by which time she was so concerned she had her assistant have the number ready for an Ambulance to transfer me to a hospital which has a dedicated oral surgery team on standby...
Luckily it never came to that and by the next day i felt fine...despite not eating or drinking a thing (apart from my own blood) for 30 hours and bleeding intensively for over 10hours.
It turns out the tooth extraction was quite traumatic for the gum's and that basically during the operation they did not bother to stitch my gum back together,leaving a hole in my gum of several milli-meters and so when my blood pressure returned to normal and the sedatives had worn off the blood just poured out the hole.
Just to add insult to injury I had to pay the NHS £16 for the failed extraction at the start (turned into a check-up) £45 for the operation then another £16 to stop the bleeding and fix the cock-up from the operation.
Goes without saying...I hate dentists!!
john
And it's not really their fault. Imagine you have to model the same character for your entire career. After a year you're not going to give a shit either. Imagine that you're also not going to get sacked if you do a less that perfect job, and you'll be crapping out cheap models in no time and not even feel bad about it.
That's why I never trust GPs or hospital clinics, they don't have time for your shit, your shit doesn't interest them anyways, and as soon as the symptoms are out of your mouth they've already shortlisted you for the general diseases that's most likely to be. If they're wrong then you are shit out of luck my friend, because you just got boned by Pavlovian conditioning.
If you want to know what's really going on you need to go to a private specialist, or better yet, three. Generally they get paid enough to care, and they're paid that much because they know what they're talking about.
And of course don't get the idea that I'm excusing doctors here. A shitload of them just aren't good enough for their job. Add on the apathy and conditions that aren't a cold or a flu and you've got a screwed patient who's $100-1000 lighter.
Dentists are actually really guilty of not giving a fuck. Loads of patients, an abundance of relatively simple procedures, anasthetic, and the fact that the mouth heals anyways means they can get away with all kinds of hack jobs. Plus the layman can't interpret dental X-rays so a dentist can tell you whatever he wants and you'll basically have to take his word for it. No wonder root canals are so popular in the states.
She's my girlfriend, and she's been seeing the chiropractor for like 16 years. There's actually quite a few chiropractors and massage therapists in the town I live in, and they get along quite well. Usually they share office spaces or rent to each other quite often.
And then my sister had misdiagnosed pancreatitis and was in and out of the hospital for months, and they actually removed her gull bladder before they found out that it was really pancreatitis.
And as if that wasn't bad enough, my girlfriend's Mom was in the ER recently because she had trouble breathing, and the doctors couldn't figure out what the problem was. One day I was visiting and walked in on the doctor GOOGLING her symptoms! For fucks sake, I could do that myself at home!
Needless to say, I'm not a fan of doctors.
Yep they all pretty much do this. They don't neccessarily use google, but their own database of disorders and symptoms. Every time i've been to the docs with family or GF, you start listing them the symptoms and they start hitting checkboxes on their little PDAs.
Today's mystery ailment is.......loading......diarrhea! Treatment is ......loading.......a pie to the face!
I try to stay clear of it all by exercising regularly, and brushing my teeth after each meal.
In other news, my dad has walked out of the emergency room 3 times because he was waiting there for hours and nobody came to see him. He didn't even go there willingly, his GP forced him to go by ambulance.
I need a doctor to come in here and explain why the system is in such total shambles.
But ffs medicine isn't as easy as it seems, and sometimes a misdiagnosis is not the worst thing, it happens. For example what happened with Pseudo sister ir acceptable and be thankfull for that. Pancreatitis is hard to diagnosis, only 2/3 of them have the "usual" symptons, and the other third only has unspecific ones. They weren't sure, the prognosis is bad if they don't do anything, blood tests and US/TAC give wrong info a lot of times so they treated it. Real medicine isn't like Dr. House, the more exams you ask for a patitent the better the diagnosis.... sometimes you have to make hard choises and that one for example was a good one.
He also has a habit of not letting you know what his diagnosis is until he is absolutely sure.
I just came back from the dentist. Removed a wisdom tooth. I was really scared, especialy after reading this thread.
So when I arrived there, they covered the instruments, that made me shit my pants almost. Then they covered my face with this piece of cloth with a small hole cut in it where my mouth is. I guess the didnt want me to see anything.
Then they started working, so he gave me couple of injections, and I didnt feel a thing! I thought he was just holding it against my mouth, but he was already finishing injecting.
So then he started cutting, I did feel blood flowing in my mouth areas, his assistent quickly used the vacuum thingy. The worst part was when he started drilling and pulling. I didnt feel any pain, but I did feel how hard he pulled and stuff. He even rested his other hand on my face one second and pulled really hard.
Then he said: Finished, and I was really suprsided, no paint at ALL.
When I left, they gave me a subscription to some painkillers and told me what to do and not to do. So now 2 hours later, I'm at home, still no pain, Im holding some ice against my cheeck and it's all good...for now.
My fear of dentist is semi-gone now
A lot of text, a lot spelling mistakes, sorry for that.
I´m lucky i dont have wisdom-teeth-issues.
So my story isn't about me but my father he had heart surgery something like last year and the battery died, they replaced it, the area got infected, so they had to remove the device and clear the wounds, they switched the device over to his left side and left wires inside of his vaines from the previous "infected/Right side" surgery.
Good job docs! yea I was pretty pissed and it just seemed like they were abusing his body cause he can take it, he's pretty healthy for an older man minus his heart. I wonder how much each surgery was, I bet that's why they did it so many times. my opinion anyway.
That, and the fact that humans are full of imperfections no matter what. Everyone makes mistakes- it just so happens to be that whenever a doctor makes one it's a new headline. It -is- a big deal.
My friend had all of her wisdom teeth removed, but due to some sort of malpractice, she ended up with an infection afterwards. The infection spread to her brain, and she suffered temporary paralysis and shit. T'wasn't good at all. I was scared out my wits when I heard about it, too. She's better now though, thanks to some actual good doctors.
I've never really experienced anything as bad as some of the atrocities mentioned here. Although I do remember about 10 years ago, hearing about the mother of a friend of mine going into hospital for surgery (for gall-stone removal I think). Apparently during the procedure something went wrong with her anesthetic and she woke up, still paralyzed though and could feel the surgeons cutting away at her. :S
Then if need be, I see a full on specialist like a gastroenterologist.
As MoP said, general practitioners usually pack their days tight and thus make rash decisions, like a doctor in urgent care would do. Time is money!
What do you call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in med school?
Doctor
Unfortunately there are shitty Doctors just like there are shitty mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. My mother in law just died last Monday because of incompetent doctors at a local hospital. It's possible she might have still died at a better facility but she might have had more time to say goodbye, her decline was fast and her death unexpected.
You really have to be your own advocate with respect to medical services. There is a strange elevation of doctors in our society and many people are inclined to submit to this perceived authority. The truth is you are a paying customer and the doctor is supplying a service you are paying him/her for. The doctor is just another human being that takes a shit just like you so never be afraid or reluctant to call bullshit on something that doesn't pass the common sense test with respect to your care. The other thing when seeking out medical care is to do research and try doctors out based on word of mouth, recommendations from friends etc... so you can stay away from the morons.
Malpractice insurance wouldn't be so expensive if there weren't so many dipshits practicing medicine. Maybe we should set the bar a little higher.
A doctor, in a standard day at the office, has to (as in 'is legally obligated to') see any patients they've scheduled far in advance for that day (for instance if you were scheduled for a follow-up visit two weeks after a prior visit), all emergency visits (for instance if a patient called yesterday or that day and results might show something that needs to be treated urgently), and all walk-ins (as in the people who have no appointment and just show up). There are also the people who either don't show up for their appointment, or don't show up and then just walk-in whenever they feel like it (could be hours after their appointment, or days later). This is part of the reason at least a decent portion of doctor's have packed schedules.
Some of them also have hospital rounds to go to after their regular office hours. Which means after they leave the 9-5 or whatever to whatever at the office, they're headed off to do more work at a local hospital. They then have to find spare time to go over notes, review test results, look at patient charts, dictate reports, etc.
So not only are they busy, but then they are also expected to perform and diagnose perfectly for every malady. Every day. Until they retire. Or possibly be sued for millions of dollars. Some patients/their families will sue anyway regardless of the quality of treatment rendered or actual fault of the doctor (I've seen reports on plenty of patients or their families having sued for either mistakes made on their part, mistakes made by other doctors treating them, or patients refusing to cooperate with the treatment plan).
If quality and precision can be expected of one human endeavor, it can be expected from another; especially when pain/death/lifelong ailments are concerned.
I suggest the doctors take it up with their colleagues if they've painted themselves into a hellish corner. Much like I suggest anyone who gripes about the game industry's long hours actually do something about it beyond talking.
Often all required surgeries could be packed into 2-3 days so that the doctors would have the rest of the week off to golf. That's not anecdotal information that he picked up from coworkers it's information that was communicated to him by the surgeons who were eager to wrap up their surgery marathon so that they could hit the links.
Of course he had stories of a particularly excellent orthopedic surgeon who was so good at his practice that his patients required fewer or no blood transfusions and fewer antibiotics as well. That surgeon took great care to cause the least amount of trauma possible so patients recovered faster. He also insisted on personally dressing all of his patients wounds refusing to let the nurses do it for him.
There were peers of that surgeon though whom did not exercise the same amount of care and those patients spent more time in the hospital for the same procedures.
There are lots of morons out there, one doctor told me that an ear infection behind my eardrum wasn't anything to be concerned about, that once the pressure built to a significant level my eardrum would rupture and reseal itself he said "it's just like a boil". That "advice" stood in direct contradiction to the warnings from a specialist I had seen years earlier for the same problem. He advised caution regarding inner ear infections because after the drum ruptures the hearing loss is not reversible. Fortunately I caught it early, took antibiotics, and all was well. Fortunate for me also was that I had an experience with someone who knew what they were talking about because after Dr. Dipshit told me a ruptured eardrum is like a boil I promptly went to an ENT specialist who prescribed a better antibiotic. I had to pay for the entire specialist visit out of pocket but that $150 was well worth it.
If any of you think that a government run health care system will fix these type of issues, you are out of your tiny fucking minds.
(Steps off soapbox)
Thank you, good night.
The point is that there are fuckups in every aspect of society practicing various disciplines to earn a living. Having government involved in administering or paying for health care administration won't change that fact. Having it remain a completely "free market" system won't change it either. How do you avoid fuckups that happen to be doctors? That is the question (but ultimately not the point of this thread).
My family has had some issues with shitty doctors too. pretentious, busy fuckers who don't take the time to consider the idea that their first assessment might be wrong. we've had some bad misdiagnosis in our family that caused some big problems.
Sucks to hear. dunno what to say, other than take the time to find people who you can trust. i dunno where to look... shit, i haven't been to a doctor in years. I'm the picture of health *hack, cough*
Although that said, the doctor I dealt with after the diagnosis was amazing, and continues to be. The nurses at that hospital, on the other hand, are another matter. Scrubbing away at fresh surgical scars "because you've got some blood on you" and then not cleaning the blood out of my hair, looking me in the eye before the operation and asking outright "do you have any piercings?" (I have a big black ring through my nose. It's fairly fucking obvious, and a nurse that couldn't see that rather worried me), amongst other more minor fuckups.
It's a strange one, though, because for every 3 truly incompetent, ignorant or just downright arrogant doctor I've come across, I've found one really fantastic one, and for every incompetent, stupid and uncaring nurse I've found 3 good ones. So I can't really complain too much.
I don't think my post states that.
Why of course it can. However, I'd have to say the level of quality expected from doctors and the penalties for not providing this level of quality at all times, is far and above what most people deal with in their jobs.
Exactly. My post was just to provide perspective from a different angle. Not all doctors are assholes, but they aren't all saints either.
People are often self-centered egotistical bastards who go through their lives with very little thought towards their physical well being. They know little of their internal workings and demands. They frequently make visits to fast food restaurants, because they have no time to cook a healthy meal. They skip exercise because their favorite show is on. They drink. They smoke. The ignore the signs that say "lift with your knees", or "use proper sunscreen". The see their bodies as an unbreakable shell, and not a complex system of parts working together.
Then, when something goes wrong, their attitude changes. They take a trip to another human being wearing a white coat, who they have likely never met before, and they say "FIX ME!". For accidents and emergencies, this is the task, and in most cases they get the attention and care they require. More often, those with less severe ailments get more than they deserve. Why should a complete stranger give more attention to their body than they have for it themselves?
Their is a doctor patient relationship. And it only works out for the best if both are cooperative. When you walk into an medical office for the first time, the doctor may know absolutely nothing about your life and daily habits. In addition, they have to spend time with many patients each day all demanding the same amount of personal attention. How often does someone go out of their way to send their doctor a thank you card for their time?
I have met doctors who only seem to be in it for the money. Then again, I've met more who have gone out of their way to help me, all while making time for so many others as well. The medical industry and the insurance industry are a whole separate and larger beast. But I think people would have a different perspective on doctors as individuals if they would simply take the steps to avoid visiting them in the first place. No one knows your body better than you do. Keep track of what you do. Listen to and take note of symptoms. Follow the advice you're given. Get a second opinion. Doctors are human, and humans make mistakes.
I've done my best to avoid doctors. In recent times, the only bad experiences I've had with doctors were due to the number of people standing in line in front of me. Having to wait an entire month for an appointment, only to find the symptoms have all vanished before that time, and realizing it wasn't really a concern. Having to wait in an emergency room for 5+ hours only to be told there is nothing to worry about. When something felt seriously wrong with my heart, and all tests came back normal, I was simply told to relax, eat better, drink plenty of water and exercise. I didn't listen at first. To be safe, I took their advice to see a specialist. I was told the same thing. And I listened. There were people with more serious problems then my own, and I was just as much wasting their time, but at the time I didn't see it that way. Either way, they assisted me. All I needed was to take better care of myself. Doctors ASSIST you and finding and treating whatever may be wrong. It's all they can do. And it's your choice to accept it.
Being a doctor is a job just like any other job. A patient is another stack of papers. It's another small task to complete in a very long day, day after day. You learn that when you put yourself into a related medical field. A body is another body. But the doctor is expected to care for that person in more ways than that person cares for themselves. How many of you perform your daily tasks that well, knowing that when it's all said in done, no one else will care about the amount of time and effort you spent on it?
I wouldn't want to be a doctor. It doesn't seem like an easy or peaceful job. I had the opportunity to join a career in the medical field, but decided it wasn't for me. People can be ungrateful and quick to blame others for their faults. Especially in American society. No one is ever willing to take the blame for their actions, or simply accept events they had no control over. Legal action is more profitable.
I excuse you.
My dentist, he's better now after many years of experience. Funny thing. In one my later visits to him, he was looking at my fillings and he mentions how one of them was done kinda sloppy, and he asks me who did it. And I said it was him.. lol.. he didn't laugh though
That said, I agree. Having to deal with people from all walks of life with all kinds of problems and with all kinds of miserable tendencies for finger-pointing can't be the happiest job in the world, and I don't envy them.