Voodoo Senior Project

VikingJim

Hey PC,
For my senior project at AI-SD, I'm doing a serial killer voodoo guy in the Mississippi delta that takes place in the late 50's. Here are some quick pages and screens of what ive been grinding on. All c&c's welcome.








MUCH more to come.
Thank you, Jim.

Mcejn

There's definitely some good here man, but I think you should probably go back and fix the normals and spec (or show it off better if that's the case), especially on things like the metal bucket and Ice Chest. Cause right now it looks like you just threw the diffuse in through a photoshop or crazybump filter and left as is. Metal is looking really lumpy and concrete-like. My only other comment would be that things like the candles are a little too high-poly for being such small and simple objects in a scene, doubt that's really a concern though. :]

Keep at it man!

Mark.N

Looking good so far Jimmy, all the small props turned out fine.

The fridge now, has a few things. First, the vents on the front, I can understand blood dripping out and down the top vent, then dripping on to the next and so on, but at least add some variety to the texture of each vent piece; even if it's something as simple as a decal or two to save some space on the unwrap. Also, they seem to float off the front the fridge, try grounding them with some blood/grunge along the edge that meets up with the main portion of the fridge. Also, the normals seem to be working a bit too well and it's kinda giving the interior of the fridge a rocky feel, rather than a grungy. I'd bring em down a bit. You can also barely catch a seam running down the front of the left (screen left btw), spattering some grunge/blood over the seam should take care of it.

The weapons are looking fine, can't way to see those finished up.

All in all, I'd say it's a decent start for midterms, good work.

VikingJim

Hey thanks guys, I plan on reworking the ice chest a tad. Im going to add door hinges and a latch on the opposite side (of hinges). as well as reworking the texture. Its a touch noisy. And still too damn wet concrete looking as Mcejn and others have pointed out.

nrek

Hey Jim interesting idea you have for your final project. Looks like your off to a pretty good start. The assets seem pretty good in general but some optimization here and there might be a good thing, as well as some extra love to the textures. I did a sketch over various parts of each sheet to give you some tips on possible changes. I know with final projects like this you don't have much time to backtrack so if anything it might be stuff to keep in mind for future assets. Hope it helps .

(big image)
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2712/jimtips.jpg

A.Kincade

Good work Jims. Lookin sweet since I saw last. I agree with what people have said so far. nrek makes some solid points. Simple fixes for sure.

Besides those I think most everything is pretty spot on for the theme your working with. I feel the shotgun could've been chosen differently though. I think this dude would seem more bad ass with a sawn off or oversized/custum rifle. This shotgun, although a good model, seems pretty boring atm. If you go sawn of you can have in open in half and maybe scatter some shells around or make a box of ammo or something. Especially with how gnarly that blade is the gun seems slightly out of place.





Just a thought. Good work thus far. Keep the good work bud.

VikingJim

Nrek- Thanks for the paintover man, Its pretty helpful. The lighter tops of the candles is a good touch. reworking those maps now. Spent a good chunk of today making the icebox look more like old metal instead of wet cement. here is a new shot.

AK - The shotgun does seem rather bland in comparison to the other somewhat demented props. It just seemed like one of those classic pieces of a backwoods bayou house. shotgun in the corner, ya know? Maybe voodoo symbols painted on the buttstock would spice it up.

VikingJim

Weekend Update. Fleshing out texture on raven blade as well as made some changes to the candles. Nice suggestions nrek. the bugs are a nice touch to the blood bowls. As for the knife, im not sure if i like the idea of feathers around the neck area anymore. I like the no frills / no nonscense mood it has without the flair.


workin on the dead animal parts quota,

renderhjs

to much dirt and Grey in the textures make them look bad. The bump amount on the fridge is also way to much - looks like 90`s renderings.
Also the triangle counts look sometimes odd to me- like the gourds - do they really have that many tris?

anyway my most critical suggestion would be to get away from all the grey soup many of the textures have now - blend stuff with layer modes and just experiment with what colors can do.

Mcejn

Renderhjs is right, the bump does still look blown out on the ice box. Also I'm assuming that's still a WIP of the dagger, can't wait to see how it'll look with some nice colored textures and the strands/hair at the end of the hilt in place. Good start on the animal head too, but like the ice chest it seems the bump is too high, making it look like concrete or stone. If you're trying to imitate hair I'd probably suggest adding that in seperately as alphas, to help disguise it as well as make it look more real.

A.Kincade

Gotcha on the gun... I think integrating the voodoo symbols on it will help a bit.

Boar head is dope. Like the eye area mainly. Nice stuff. Is it going to be mounted or laying on a table or a mantle piece or something?

The knife looks slightly too bloody. Maybe the blade will be ok but maybe take some away from the handle area. His hands would stop a lot of blood from being there.

Candles look better. Ice box looks better blood wise but the bump is strange as they had mentioned.

Keep up the good work man. Making good progress.

mLichy

Yeah, I agree with renderhjs, the fridge looks muddy to me. The bump seems more like concrete than metal. I know you might be going for a bloody mess, but I think it might be too much. Or more so just that it's so muddy.

Try something more like these.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/224776053_f02809d6a8.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1114/748274522_8fa6bcb91d.jpg?v=1183824010
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1099/1225976594_eaed8a5c57.jpg?v=0
http://www.devicepedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/rusty-retro-fridge.jpg
http://www.flamingbear.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/rnFridge2.jpg

Hope that helps

vladino

Completely agree with the overdone bump in most of your models. Makes them all look like plastic. Also try using specular more to define your materials.

Ott

You need to steer away from the "highschool emo" concept of "red" for blood when it comes to surfaces. Unless you JUST stabbed someone and the blade is currently inside of them, blood will dry and soak into those surfaces.

Look at films like Chainsaw Massacre, Saw, Silence of the Lambs, or the new Friday the 13th when it comes to stuff like this. The props and tools are aged...worn...rusted and decrepid. Slapping a red spray paint over the top of something and calling it blood without any thought as to how it got there or how long it has been on the surface is too blunt and unoriginal.

With little-to-no specular work, almost none of the surfaces are going to register for whatever you want them to be. It's near impossible to get a great looking wax or metal shader to work correctly without spec. Whatever "spec" you have for the fridge up top (that black and white blurry image) isn't a spec map.

Stop running your color map through crazy-bump / Nvidia and calling it a day. You need to understand what the normals are DOING and how to make them work for you before you start nilly-willy applying them and hoping for the best.

I would also address the style of your presentation. The whole hand-drawn stuff along the borders is interesting, but use a layer style or some sort of blend to the layer underneath it so it doesn't look like crayon.

The boar head looks good, but the same thing applies for the red, and I would also work on the tusks a bit more for the color and aging of them as well.

If this is your Senior Project, stop sleeping and make this shit work.

Cojax

Donald your not supposed make the guy cry. lol.

Snight

I'm gonna have to agree with Ott. Most of your materials aren't selling the surfaces of your objects. The metal for example on your fridge and bucket look like stone. I would suggest going back and rethink the specularity of your objects. Ditch the "nvidea filter everything" idea, because your textures are coming out extremely noisy and are making them fall apart.

VikingJim

Thank you all for the time to crit my work. I know the textures are whats bringing these models down. Im putting them up to get better, so no hard feelings anyone.

Changing the icebox spec helped significantly. I think now with that and the normal reduced it reads more as metal than stone. My texturing process is slowing me down. Should everything get its own bakedown, and work with the maps from there as a starting point?


Im trying to get a feel for how im going to lay out the scene itself. Here is a quick wip of some props together.

Mcejn

Not sure what you mean by "bakedown", but generally a basic starting point is to work your diffuse off your lighting maps. This will add some nice depth to your models but is by no means a "do it and leave as is"(typically it is ;]) type of deal.

VikingJim

mcejn- bakedown being the whole high to low process, and using the normal map as a base for all textures. lighting maps being the AO?

update on raven blade. i think the bone color breaks up the grey blob it used to be. also attempted alpha hair from the hilt. still wip.

Mcejn

Yes the AO. Also, you could use the normal map but it really depends on how you blend it, otherwise you could get some really undesired results. Try sticking to just the AO, that should be a good enough start for your objects. You'll see your stuff instantly looking better, or worse.

I'm liking that bone texture man, but you should split up the hairs a lot more, I thought it was a piece of wood at first. I think having only a few strands coming out would be a lot better than one big lock of hair.

wester

Here, i did a quick paintover on the fridge. Make the grunge more specific..instead of so general. Like towards the bottom where the grunge is its heaviest...it should seep into the cracks, especially the big one in the back. The part that's separating the pieces.

Make the sign on the side of the fridge look like it's leaking rust and what have you.

VikingJim

thanks wes, that makes sense. the large divot in the back looked way off.

wester

yeah


and its emo

A.Kincade

wester wrote: »

yeah


and its emo

lol. Good one.

Anyways.... Jimothy.... looking better man. Looks like your making better improvements with the icebox. Don did a pretty sweet paint over and I think that will help it out quite a bit. Like mcejn mentioned, maybe do something different with the tassel thing at the end of the shank. Looks to solid atm.

Anyways keep up the good work bud.

renderhjs

it is now already a bit better - but still I think that there is still to much noise in them (like the noise filter from PS).

VikingJim

dirtied up my red emo fridge. leaps and bounds better than the first one i showed here. thanks again everyone for your crits. Moving on to finishing the blade, bowls, and candles now.

VikingJim

I made the hair more seperated towards the end of the lock. it reads a lot better now. here are some page updates.

renderhjs

the knife looks random design wise - I myself have never seen something like that. Also in your drawing it looks more industrial like the hard edges - so I believe that originally your design was based on a knife that has a metal blade - and not some bone or clay material.

Also with all the blood on the knife I would expect more kind of finger prints and not some splashy stuff because after all its his hands that interact with the knife - not the blood or splash of the blood.

VikingJim

render - You're right, originally the blade was metal. The bone texture sounds cool in theory, but it doesnt look like a bone whatsoever.

I have a different metal texture im using at the moment. I wanted blood on the duct tape part because between moving bowls and whatnot, as well as performing voodoo incantations and rituals, his hands would become bloody. As for the blade itself, I had always pictured it as a bloodyied in a way that looks like a vulture or crow's beak after eating.


looks stonish to me.

whats_true

Dirty does not equal win.

You have so much crap on that fridge, its starting not to make sense anymore. Why is it darker on the corners? Did it go through a fire, and someone in good nature scrubbed the middle part so that its cleaner? The inside walls of the fridge looks like someone has explosion dieria. What is that brown stuff? It should look moldy, with the water and rotting foods giving it its color. I can understand the base of the inside frige being dirty (water puddles, falling food stuff), but the inside walls make no sense to me at all. Take a look at wester paint over again.

I think you should really figure out how things get dirty first before you apply that pass to your models. Think of the logistics of it first, instead of just throwing in dirt for the sake of it being "dirty".

VikingJim

hey guys, been workin for a few days on putting the scene itself together. here is what i have thus far. Please note the entire house is using the wood planks as a placeholder at the moment, it will be changed. this is more about layout and placement.
Ding! 100th post.

renderhjs

it still looks empty - add way more details and objects. For example the fridge looks odd the way its turned away from the wall and almost lonely in the room.

Have you already thoughts about camera views that you want to use for the final composition? Because the table seems to be kind of in the way for many views.

Some ideas:
Some shadow maps of dried plants or flys that swirl around. I think light and shadows are just the right thing to really let your scene work.

PixelMasher

some proper lighting should help ground everything, right now it looks like the props are floating. also the proportions on everything seem really squat and stumpy. some properly defined spec on the fridge will help sell the materials better, right now its hard to read and looks a bit flat. I would reevaluate the proportions of everything before proceeding.

VikingJim

render, hey man, here are the camera shots i was thinkin of using. You are right it is a bit empty. ive been trying to play interior decorator and see what works. I moved the fridge to the otherside of the room and put its back against the wall. as for the colored floor in the center, the brown L on the outside is going to look like there used to be cupboards there, the square is going to be haggard lenolium, and the thin border strip is the crowning to keep the lenolium in place.

as for lighting i havent really touched anything. sorry these are pretty dark

A.Kincade

Its so F-ing dark....

anyways composition looking better but I agree with PixelMaster on everything looking short and stumpy. Looks like building is made for smaller folk. It looks like you vaulted part of the roof near the fridge but it still reads as being a really short roof. I don't know man. Maybe just lift up the entire roof slightly and I think it'll help a little.

Good work thus far. Keep up the good work bud.

VikingJim

i put the fridge in the corner and lost a table. i also put in some banister things for a bit of depth, as well as raised the roof. (holla) Still trying to figure out a good composition or layout for the props themselves. here are some new shots i had in mind with the house changes.

Autocon

I would say your second shot has the most interesting camera angle. The first one is way to boring and the second one is blocked by your telephone pole too much.

The problem with the second one is that your blade which is your main prop isnt scene at all from this view and your fridge is pretty hidden back there.

Also I know your telephone pole thing inst finished yet but what exactly is it? It is a telephone pole that has been smashed through the window and put inside the house for a kinda cross alter? If that is the case I just dont see logically you would be able to fit that T section through the window.

Like the progress your making.

VikingJim

Anthony, when I read your post I laughed, because I had never seen it, but it does look like a telephone pole at the moment. It will end up being the hanging altar. The cylindrical shape is a gym / training bag duct-taped to a wooden cross. The thing at the top is a hay-hook, for the hands of the unfortunate person being sacrificed. All the wires now are going to be Christmas lights strung around it. Perhaps these little sketches will help. Im not sure how i feel about the piece on the back anymore. It was suppose to be wrought iron to almost portray antlers.


Thanks everyone for the continued crits. All the information so far has been really helpful.

A.Kincade

I had a good chuckle at this as well. The only reason I knew it was an altar was because I remember when you were doing the concept for this thing. I thought telephone pole as well till then.

I notice how you put it through the window to prop it up. I can see how it would look as if it feel through or broke through from outside rather than placed from inside. I'm sure it'll look super badass once you start working on that altar and it should be unmistakable as an altar so you won't have to worry about it looking like a telephone pole.

Anyways are you planing on doing that altar this quarter or you saving for next? Keep up the good work.

VikingJim

Image Heavy Update. These are some "finished" small props. Getting ready to start putting it all in UT3 for sweet lighting.

VikingJim

Hey all, here is a quick wippy from UT3. I decided to make the scene less dense because previously it was cluttered as frak. Some of the textures and models are missing, but i feel the dramatic lighting works far better in here than maya. This is before my package became corrupt, le sigh.

VikingJim

Unreal update: added a greenish tint to the fog, as well as placed trees about. It is a bit washed out, but also now very moody.

renderhjs

it looks a lot better,- but I think there are some decals missing. For example the fridge connects with a clean floor beneath it- same with the wall. They don't have much deep connection: no shadow, no dirt, scratches that would tell a connection between the 2.

The green background with the trees really work out well,- its also a nice contrast with the warm inner room- very atmospheric.

VikingJim

played around with the lighting, as well as put im some decals. Some read better than others, the "mud" on the floor is barely visible even to me.

P442

ahaha! You put your wheelbarrow in. Nice!

BradMyers82

Hey man, nice work so far.
Unfortunately with these latest images, they are too small, and I can't see much.
On top of that, I think you may have gone overboard with the green fog, and the rooms lighting in general could use some work.
I think you really need a decent light source somewhere, to bring the viewers attention to, because right now it is sort of confusing on the eye design wise.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned, but did you work out the scale of things by using a measurement system at all, or are you just eye balling it?
Imo, this is one of the biggest mistakes some environment guys make when setting up a scene (not accurately measuring things that is), because when you put it all together, it just looks off.
For example I think a ceiling in a cabin or what-ever this room is, would be approximately 8 feet high at the most. Now a refrigerator, has to be about 6 feet high.
However, looking at your scene, it appears that you could stack two refrigerators on top of one another before you reach the ceiling. So the ceiling is 12 feet high?

I don't know, just something to think about. But hey, its coming along really nicely so far, and I look forward to seeing this completed!

VikingJim

Brad: Scale has been an issue ive been working through. I made all the pieces individually, and them placed them into the scene in maya first. When importing the UT3 basic guy for scale, the whole house was about as big as his foot. Fail. Since then ive used him as reference as to scale. The fridge seems big yes, but its because its a smaller fridge, from the 40's or 50's. Its actually pretty spot on to the one thats in my garage. It is about adams apple height to me, and the one in my kitchen is to my nose. As for the cieling, its an A frame made of Corrugated Tin that uses wooden truss's for support. Since the altar is hanging, i didnt want it to be basically on the ground if it was a flat cieling.

The environment effects and lighting are what ive been working on the most recently. Going from a cool outside light to warm candle light on the inside. I agree the fog is a bit loud, and should be toned down. I'll get some bigger pictures for you all soon(ish).

120Degree_Flip

thats so cool (the fridge)
i love dark elements for a little fringe...