Ryan James Smith | Student Reel 2009

Ryan Smith

Hey guys i'm starting this thread up for my demo reel WIP. right now i have a rough edit that i put together as a foundation for what kind of camera angles and shots i'll be using

Right now i've gotten plenty of feed back on this first draft

1. some shots are too fast
2. some rough cuts on the last scene
3. text runs off screen at beginning.
4. UV and Unlit overlay passes are too fast on opening shot
5. Absolutely no scene info is provided at this point.

but anyways, i am posting it in case anyone has any cool ideas or feedback to give me. This will only be updated probably 2 or 3 more times by my portfolio review on June 19th.

Thanks for any comments or critiques in advance :-)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPEFbbEWfrk&fmt=18[/ame]

jocose

Like many people on this forum have stated before I think that reels can be overrated especially for static environments. They usually wont hurt you if used with a good collection of still images but you should never have JUST a reel, unless your an animator.

I would make all of the panning shots very short and take a lot more time to show off some still images, UVs, textures, wireframes, and other critical information.

So to summarize that I would show some static images, then a brief animated once over of the entire scene, make sure when you upload this to your site that you also have actual images to go along with the reel itself.

Then you should have a good setup.

If you don't put any of the flats in your reel then you may run the risk of some one seeing the reel and not seeing your site, that's why, IMO, its good to lump things together and make sure the reel has everything an employer needs to judge your work.

Pope Adam

Looks solid to me man, i really like it. I think it does a good job of showing off your work, although as you said it doesn't have any statistics to tell us exactly what we're looking at and that would be nice.

I would change your intro from saying "student" to "professional"... whether you think it's pro quality or not, you should try to market yourself as a professional. Just a thought :P

cheers looks nice though!

PixelMasher

some decent work man, but for the love of god get rid of the particle style name intro, nothing screams student more than using jazzy fx.....keep it clean and simple.

the cross over mask thing in the 1st environment was kinda distracting/annoying too so maybe just either fade between them during the camera move or lose it all together.

also be sure to end with a few seconds of your name, contact info and website link. nice work dude.

ericdigital

Pretty much agree with what else was said. Would like to see some poly count specs and some texture flats, which of course I'd assume will be in your portfolio along side the reel. I would get rid of it saying "student reel" and just say "demo reel" or "game art reel" etc. good work man!

Ryan Smith

Cool guys, thanks for the feedback. I'll get rid of that particle mess, it was just a placeholder anyways.

I'm planning on putting model turntables in instead of still images. A turntable does way more i think because it can show off the specular and normals better than a still image. It would be easy to overlay flats on the other side of the screen since the res is 1280x720. there should be plenty of room.

Jet_Pilot

Is this a Level design demo reel of an environment demo reel??? is everything your mesh and your textures??

your speed is good just keep it consistent. People look at demo reels all day and if you don't throw as many images at them before they get board they're just going to move on. I recommend Images BEFORE a reel as well as most of the people here and in the industry.

Ryan Smith

I'm still unsure on this idea of "Images"... why would someone rather look at an image rather than a turnaround of a model? i don't understand it. An image doesn't show off things like specularity and normals and all the cool detail as well as a a video turn table of whatever prop you are giving them. You can always put the texture maps up next to it.

can someone please elaborate on this?

ericdigital

It's a speed thing, personally its why I also really dislike lightbox for images, its slow. The person looking at your stuff wants to click on your website, have your art right there, look at a few images, and say yes or no. If the images captivate them then they might take the time to look at the reel. Most likely a potential employer has a stack he has to get through and if he gets to yours and has to wait for turn tables to load, he probably isn't going to. You want your art to be accessible as fast as possible. It's fine to have video and turn tables to but its imporant to have good images right there ready to go.

It's about hooking someone as fast as possible and images are the fastest way to do that. Attention spans are short. On another note with a good light set up you should be able to have your norm/spec show good enough for an image.

GOBEE

I don't think anyone said they'd rather look at images instead of a turnaround model. However, if you are going to keep your reel in its current form, think about putting some still images right before you go into the camera animation of your reel. So it's like you're saying "Here is what my scene looks like... and then this is what it looks like if someone were to walk through this environment". Either that, or put some still images in the reel before you show off your 360 degree turnarounds, which may also work for you.

I think you're right in a way, regarding the spec and normal maps but if you look at what game studios put out most of the time to market their new "highly anticipated" game, they're showing off the screenshots. Not a turnaround. That's how I look at it. (personally not a fan of the dizzying turnarounds) Besides, the turnarounds I think are best for Character Artists.

So yea, still images might not show off as much detail as you'd like, but if you get the camera angle and the lighting just right, a still image can be just as effective as a 30 second camera animation of the same thing. I have been given the "still image advice" on PC before and I happen to agree with the advice, especially for us Environment Artists. If you don't have any spectacular animation to show off, there really isn't much of a point. You could still show off parts of your reel like you have, but keep it in moderation along with some nice stills, and your UV layout/textures. All the other advice in here is really good. Your tranquility one kind of reminds me of a scene I did in my student demo reel. Looks good!

SHEPEIRO

images- you can see more than one at a time, if the prospective employer is put off by anything in the first they can see that there are others awaiting. it may not be the quality of work they are particulaly interested in, for example a someone making stylised envs may not be bothered looking at lots of photoreal envs for three minutes and turn off, just befor the last env of the real comes on which wait for it... you get the idea, images are instant, then videos can show off stuff when the employer is already hooked. plus the a highres image well presented can give a better idea of image and texture quality than a video can

Ryan Smith

Okay so i understand the point and the advice and i thank everyone for it. Include shots of the environments with stills and flats and all that other jazz on your website SEPARATE from your reel.

But i just have to argue one thing. And please, i'm not ungrateful for the advice that has already been provided, but keep an open mind in regards to this argument.

Obviously someone is going to spend more than 20 seconds on someone's web page to look at their work. (now granted this may not be true if an employer sees thumbs of some seriously bad artwork) - Now, assume you are the hypothetical "employer".. and you click on a streaming flash video (no loading time)... and I have put my best fly through of an environment in that first 20 seconds. Right here we can conclude a series of things that work out better than looking at your best STILL images.

1. The fly through is dynamic, showing what the experience will look like in-engine
2. Multiple camera shots within the first 20 seconds, no clicking needed.
3. Can see any moving dynamic effects that the environment artist used in the level (torches, particles, etc) in motion
4. Shows how your specular and normals are working with the surrounding light. (This is always going to be better than an image, because it is moving, and we see a change over time in the dynamic lighting rather than no change at all)

Now, if an employer is hooked on your environments in these first 20 seconds, he's obviously going to sit back and enjoy the rest of the 2 minute reel, not having to click any buttons to see more images.

After this, if he wants to see flats, he can check them out. He can say "Hmm stuff looks good, i wonder if it's optimized properly, or if he used his texture space efficiently", then he can check the stills.

If they are hooked on it, they are going to keep watching it, and they won't get bored because the reel is under 2 minutes long.

So i guess it can work either way. I personally would rather watch a demo reel first, because as long as I state that the reel is all in-engine, it lets the employer know that i understand how to implement things into an engine, create shaders for the objects, and light a map properly. Now granted you can do the same thing with images, but it's more boring.


Are there any art directors or hiring managers browsing this thread that can confirm/deny my position on this argument?



In conclusion, i'll add stills of everything and texture sheets of key props on my webpage next the reel, i was planning on doing that anyways :-P but thanks everyone anyways. I'll have an updated version of this probably within the next month.


Thanks again for all the imput

Fishypants

Virtuosic, overall I think your reel was decent and good looking, but to address your points:

1. The fly through is dynamic, showing what the experience will look like in-engine
- So? To be honest, I got bored about half way through watching the reel I feel its too long, and dwells on the same models for too long a period of time. I would have liked to view the wireframes better, instead of a thin mask that runs across the frame. Images would be perfect for this. Give the viewer time to appreciate your work. Also just because the camera is dynamic, doesn't mean its looking at anything important. In the cave scene, some of the time the camera is focused on a wall and looking at something not as interesting as it could be because its in the middle of transitioning to another area.

2. Multiple camera shots within the first 20 seconds, no clicking needed.
- Would rather have a series of images that I could go through at my own pace, and have the option to skip some if I wanted, or view them all.

3. Can see any moving dynamic effects that the environment artist used in the level (torches, particles, etc) in motion
- Don't think that's all that important, unless you want to just be an effects artist.

4. Shows how your specular and normals are working with the surrounding light. (This is always going to be better than an image, because it is moving, and we see a change over time in the dynamic lighting rather than no change at all)
- Good spec maps will always look better as an image, in my opinion. You don't need to see it moving to be able to see the spec. Nothing looks better then a nice crisp image that you can appreciate the details on.

To be honest, A video is a good supplementary item, but I think your focus should be on images, for speed and to hold the viewers interest. It seems like people who have cameras that fly through an environment are almost trying to hide their work, as if it couldn't stand out on its own. Im not saying that your work is in this category, it's nice, don't get me wrong, that's just the impression I get whenever I see only cameras that fly around and never focus on anything long enough for the viewer to take it in.

I would suggest picking some really bitchin camera views that really show of your work. Hell, you spent time on it, so show it off! Have the video be a secondary thing.

Also a point to be made, not everyone views reels in front of their computer. If someone had a mobile device, such as an iphone, they would have an easier time navigating your work. Just some thoughts. Please understand that this is just a critique and is meant to help you display your best work possible. Take care.

Jet_Pilot

We'll good luck to you and to re-paying that $80,000 student loan bill if your not going to listen to people who are trying to help.

Slum

Speaking from my own experience here, maybe others can chime in if they disagree:

Generally, people find watching reels boring and time-consuming. If you're making environments and characters with models and textures, recruiters want to see high res images. Period. Unless you really need to show something in motion (like, an animation) you should stick with images.

Obviously someone is going to spend more than 20 seconds on someone's web page to look at their work.

You'd be surprised how many emails recruiters get every single day. You'd be lucky to get more than 20 seconds if your work is even close to sub-par. You should make the good impression straight away, and images do a lot of talking. A bad model wont look better as a video, it will just take longer to look at. I'm not saying your work is bad, just trying to prove a point.

If you want to make a reel, by all means do it. But for models, textures, and environments, people want to see high res images.

rooster

nix the music imo, most people have music playing, or if they don't its because they don't want to listen to music

GOBEE

Ryan- There is a lot of assuming in your last post. All I can say is, take the advice you recieve in here and understand it is coming from truly experienced people in the industry, including developers who may be the ones who hire you (or turn you down) and are only trying to help. Most of us have already gone through the application process and know what developers like, and what they don't like. So take the advice and do what you will.

Best of luck to you and good day to you sir...

I said good day!

-Branden

jocose

First thing I did when I got out of school was go to events where art directors and hiring managers were such as job fairs, conferences, and lectures. I asked as many as I could what they wanted to see when someone applies at their company, and everyone said no reels just a good website with good work. I have never heard someone in the games industry recommend a reel
for an environment artist.


Now that I am in a position where I review others work (yes I have hired artists), I can understand why. Once you have spent years in the industry building art you KNOW good art when you see it at a glance, all you need to see is one image to know someone has what it takes, anything more than that is just insulting their intelligence.

After they see some good work, they will ask for more information if they need it.

Just saying.

Autocon

Another thing that makes images far superior is that there easy to save and shoot around to other people to check out.

Ryan Smith

K guys thanks, you make some pretty good points, I'll scrap the reel and just stick with images. when submitting portfolio to employers.