- Jetfire is an SR-71... that turns into an 'old man' robot using his landing gear as a cane
- That two wheeled robot smashing through that bridge, with Optimus maybe 1/3 his height - is only 1 out of 7 parts of Devastator. Movie Devastator is apelike, and has a funky glowing mouth.
- "Arcee" is one of three fembots who turn into motorcycles, IIRC 2 of which are monowheels.
- Sideswipe is one of the coolest looking bots EVAH.
The BAD stuph:
- "Mudflap" and "Skids" - two incredibly moronic Autobot "twins". Skids has a gold tooth with an autobot symbol on it.
And more...
- Megatron - does he return? Is he Galvatron? There's spoilers in Hasbro's lineup for the summer, but I'm not gonna spill the beans.
blah, still too much going on screen, I can't tell wtf is happening or differentiate which robot is which, or what the fuck any of them turn into. . . . bah, humbug!
I'm drinking the Hater-ade as well. I don't like that all the TFs look like jaggy shards of metal, I don't like Shia La Bouf teen comedies and I don't like robot dick-n'-fart jokes. I've heard the Bumblebee trades in urinating for crying in this film - literally 'leaking' from the eyes. I'd like to think that's not true, but after the first film, I'm pretty sure it is.
Yeah, it's not Schindler's List; it's a movie based on a cartoon that was based on a toy. I get that. What I don't get is why Bay, Orci and Kurtzman insist on the "slapstick" lowest common denominator. The Dark Knight is based on equally juvenile source material, was treated realistically rather than childishly and turned out to be a truly great film. Not coincidentally, it also made $200 million MORE than Transformers did in the US.
Just because a film is based on comics or cartoons doesn't mean it can't aspire to be fucking incredible cinema. I hate that anyone settles for American Pie with robots when there was so much more potential.
Not coincidentally, it also made $200 million MORE than Transformers did in the US.
It did indeed make that much more, but I do know a lot of people, specifically women, that only watched it because they were saying farewell to Heath Ledger.
Though, in the end, the money is all that really matters.
As far as Bumble Bee crying, it's true. He basically transforms the pieces around his head in order to bring up the windshield wiper water jets and sprays his eyes with water. Thus giving the illusion of crying. Silly, yeah, but makes sense if an alien is trying to find a way to get a human to sympathize with him.
On the whole Batman vs TF analogy you have:
While they can both be said to be based on children's fiction, TF has almost never been taken seriously in it's own fiction. Batman on the other hand has tons of fiction that depict the world as a dark and gritty place for him to live in.
Some of the most serious fiction for TFs had feminists complaining that there were no female transformers, so they created Arcee...
I dunno about the Batman/TF comparison. I agree Batman is generally more serious, but most people's exposure to the character includes the Adam West "BAM! POW!" television show as well as the ice skates and nipples on Clooney's costume in Batman & Robin. The Dark Knight is old hat to people who read Frank Miller's work, but to casual fans it is radically dark stuff.
On the other side, Transformers: The Movie had the death of Optimus Prime (I cried my 10 year old eyes out) and the whole 'coming of age' thing with Hot Rod. The comics were also pretty hardcore. Here's the issue I bought a few months before the movie came out - I remember it because the dying robots on the cover totally creeped me out: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/4/44/MarvelUS-17.jpg
At any rate, I'll just say that Bumblebee pissing on people was more juvenile than anything I remember reading or watching as a kid, and I'd have been so much happier if the property had been dealt with more realistically (a la Dark Knight, Iron Man, etc) rather than in silly, tongue in cheek fashion. I can't think of a single case in which a genre film that panders to silliness was better than one that treats it more seriously. Compare Luke's dismemberment in Empire to Jar Jar stepping in shit in Phantom - serious beats silly every day of the week, IMO.
I don't know how some of you manage to get so much out of a trailer like that. I didn't catch half of the details that are being referenced. Can I assume that some of this discussion is referencing news that hasn't been linked to in this thread?
The first Transformers movie could only really be enjoyed by going into it with low expectations. After the first ten minutes of seeing it, I saw all of the signs, and instinctively toned my expectations down to protect myself. Subsequently, I would prep anyone who hadn't yet seen the movie by lowering their expectations ahead of time. This worked wonderfully. My parents and younger brother were able to enjoy the film thanks to my intervention.
It is a big, dumb, summer action flick. It is very unapologetic about this fact. What are ostensibly the title characters are horribly shallow and underdeveloped. Although I won't be as acerbic about the experience as Vermilion, it is telling when you have to go into a film with adjusted expectations just to enjoy it.
And I definitely agree with calling the film "juvenile." I think that is a very apt description.
There is some hope for the sequel. One of the major issues I had with the first film was the way in which they handled the camera angles. Pulling the camera in close is a great way to make the big robots look big. But its also a great way to make action sequences that induce vomiting. From the trailer, it looks like they are going to be pulling the camera back a bit more for fighting and action scenes involving the robots. I'm also going to assume that Peter Cullen is still on board. That man has a fantastic voice. He can make even the most poorly written dialogue sound convincing.
- Jetfire is an SR-71... that turns into an 'old man' robot using his landing gear as a cane
- That two wheeled robot smashing through that bridge, with Optimus maybe 1/3 his height - is only 1 out of 7 parts of Devastator. Movie Devastator is apelike, and has a funky glowing mouth.
- "Arcee" is one of three fembots who turn into motorcycles, IIRC 2 of which are monowheels.
- Sideswipe is one of the coolest looking bots EVAH.
The BAD stuph:
- "Mudflap" and "Skids" - two incredibly moronic Autobot "twins". Skids has a gold tooth with an autobot symbol on it.
And more...
- Megatron - does he return? Is he Galvatron? There's spoilers in Hasbro's lineup for the summer, but I'm not gonna spill the beans.
I can't wait for the movie!
Some possible SPOILERS
Nerd mode on:
Been keeping up with this for awhile now on the TFW2005 boards and such. You can see Megs in the new trailer. Orci has said they didn't want to name him Galvatron to avoid confusion for the common audience. Highlight for me is seeing what appears to be Megatron and Starscream fighting on top of that building. Orci and Kurtzman have said time and again that this is a far darker movie than the first, while still keeping the same feel and such of the first.
Oh, and Frank Welker has officially been cast as Soundwave now. Just waiting to see if Leonard Nimoy (voice of Galvatron in the original TF movie) signs on as a voice actor. He's Bay's cousin through marriage and has said that all Bay has to do is ask. I know the writers want him on board.
The Dark Knight is based on equally juvenile source material, was treated realistically rather than childishly and turned out to be a truly great film. Not coincidentally, it also made $200 million MORE than Transformers did in the US.
Marginally more realistic. Compared to Batman Begins, Dark Knight was a pretty dumb summer blockbuster with more of a 'comic movie' treatment, rather than the original idea of 'how would someone actually become this figure'. It lacked any sort of depth that the first Nolan film had. Miles better than Transformers though (obviously).
I don't know how some of you manage to get so much out of a trailer like that. I didn't catch half of the details that are being referenced. Can I assume that some of this discussion is referencing news that hasn't been linked to in this thread?
oh yeah.
I've kept up with this movie at The Allspark.
There's been tons of footage that has been let out.
I want to see fewer trailers honestly. I've had too many movies ruined lately by trailers showing me too much. It's suppose to provide just enough to tease me, then bring the warm goodness when I see the whole flick. Not provide all the action, then have the actual movie connect the action together with masturbation jokes.
I'll still be catching this movie opening week, despite my opinion of Bay. If he fills it with stupid shit again, I'll be done with this movie series until someone other than Bay is in control of things. The Transformers storyline can easily make up the span of a movie without crude shit to fill time.
Considering that there are reportedly about 50+ robots in the film, I think it's fair to say that they are leaving out quite a bit in the trailers. Granted, a lot of those are apparently going to be more "stormtrooper" type robots. Bay has said that he wanted to keep a lot left under wraps. When you think about it, they did a good job with that with the last movie as well.
I want to see that logo transform, flip around, move back and forth on the classic transformation sound. Tiny wee metal shatters making shliiing shliiing noises, booo no thanks!
Sadly I will probably never see Shai Labeouf get stomped flat. Hopefully they'll get the awkward kid goes to college out of the way fast and get into the good stuff. Hopefully they won't have half a dozen shots where you need to watch in freeze frame to make out what is an arm and who it belongs to.
Oh come on? Seriously? You guys really think this is bad?
It's a movie about giant robots that transform into other things and fight. It has eye candy, hot chick and is entertaining.
Damn some people are just way to bitchy...
^This.
This isn't Citizen Kane. It's an entertaining popcorn movie. Maybe it's cuz I'm a fan of the franchise anyways, but the first one was everything I wanted from a live action TF movie, and this one apparently goes even deeper into the mythos, so that's a win win for me.
Oh come on? Seriously? You guys really think this is bad?
It's a movie about giant robots that transform into other things and fight. It has eye candy, hot chick and is entertaining.
Damn some people are just way to bitchy...
Jesse,
I personally have issues with the designs of the robots. They're nice and detailed, but there's quite a bit to be said for silhouettes and readability, both of which I found somewhat lacking in the first movie. It was hard to tell if you were looking at an arm or a leg or what during many scenes.
There's a couple big plot holes that bothered me with the original. IE how did they know the cracked glasses held that information? Also why was the all spark cube allowed to shrink and expand, but none of the transformers were allowed to? (I know some arguments can be made for this, but those I've heard so far are fairly weak)
There's also the fact that the focus of the movie felt less on the humans and more on shia la douchebag and megan fox. The autobots were more bumbling idiots that ever before. Yes there were somewhat within the original series. Also bumblebee was butchered and bumblebee was a favorite character of mine from the original series. Fine with him being a camaro and all, but the lack of a voice and the whole character was off.
Remember, this is just my opinion. Obviously some people share my views. And it's the internet so of course so things get blown out of proportion. You also have to remember Jesse that some here grew up with the original transformers and loved them then and still prefer the original series. I think they call it the nostalgia factor
You also have to remember Jesse that some here grew up with the original transformers and loved them then and still prefer the original series. I think they call it the nostalgia factor
I grew up with G1 and have tried watching it again, and just can't... it's pretty terrible.
Hot chick(s) with take charge attitudes ("You shoot, I drive!") ? Check.
More giant robots beating each other up? Check.
I'm in.
Yeah that's pretty much my thought process for his movies.
As for 80's cartoons turned into movies... Anything from when we were kids will not live up to the hype our brain's give it (including the original) because when we were young we made things a million times cooler with our creativity. But we didn't differentiate the real thing from the cool shit we came up with in our minds when we put it into memory. So what we remember cartoons being like is a lie. They weren't that smart and witty, we just wanted them to be so we made them that way.
From the beginning of the 1986 movie until Megatron is kicked out of the back of Astrotrain, it totally rules, even watching it again 23 years later.
But after that, it's a jumbled mess that only exists to convince kids that the new toys coming out were "kewler" than the ones they had since the beginning. It's ONLY redeeming feature is Orson Welles and Leonard Nimoy as voices, and a single bright spot to cheer at - when the 'Unicronian' Decepticons blow the BEJEEZUS out of Ultra Magnus on Junk.
Which brings another point. As a kid, I could NOT understand why Optimus Prime, who was mostly intact but had cracks in various places, could NOT be saved, but Ultra Magnus (who was blown to pieces) COULD be saved. UGH. They could have at LEAST given a pseudoscientific gobbledigook answer, like his "laser core was breached" or something.
I'm sorry, but I find it annoying when a movie titled "Transformers" isn't actually about giant robots. The big robots are supposed to be the driving force behind the conflict in the film. If that's the case, why do they get less screen time and lines than third-tier human characters?
The movie is fluff, as has been thouroughly established. And as I pointed out, going in with lowered expectations makes it possible to enjoy it. And yet I can't help but yearn for something better. Less humans, more robots!
Oh come on? Seriously? You guys really think this is bad?
It's a movie about giant robots that transform into other things and fight. It has eye candy, hot chick and is entertaining.
Damn some people are just way to bitchy...
And Terminator 2 was about two robots -one that transforms- going back in time and fighting each other in the immutable past. I think it was handled better than this IP. Our industry revolves around stupid ideas being treated seriously - or at least passionately - by those working on them. Simply abstracting the premise out of context is not reason enough to be okay with crap.
And transformers the 1986 movie sucked, they killed prime and tried to replace him with someone younger and cooler. They seriously missed the mark with design of both forms and the characters personality. And yea that stuff with megatron, was super lame.
Yeah that's pretty much my thought process for his movies.
As for 80's cartoons turned into movies... Anything from when we were kids will not live up to the hype our brain's give it (including the original) because when we were young we made things a million times cooler with our creativity. But we didn't differentiate the real thing from the cool shit we came up with in our minds when we put it into memory. So what we remember cartoons being like is a lie. They weren't that smart and witty, we just wanted them to be so we made them that way.
I have to agree with this,. I attempted to watch an episode of Exo Squad on Hulu the other day and was just bored to shits with it.
Too much kibble. How the hell is he supposed to roll out of the way of gun fire? Hide behind something with those door wings? How the hell is he even supposed to just kneel down with the mass on his shins?
I'm sorry, but I find it annoying when a movie titled "Transformers" isn't actually about giant robots. The big robots are supposed to be the driving force behind the conflict in the film. If that's the case, why do they get less screen time and lines than third-tier human characters?
How much screen time did most of these get in their first movies:
Dinos in Jurassic Park
Exoskeleton in Terminator
Gremlins in Gremlins
Actual Ghostbusting in Ghostbusters
I'm drawing blanks right now cause i'm falling asleep, but thing is that most first movies are on limited budgets and are there to prove a franchise. If it's successful, then the second movie goes all out.
I'd also like to believe that you, being part of this board and general industry, know how much money is spent for every second those guys are on the screen.
Just because its a movie about robots, does not mean you leave your mind at the door. Thats an excuse allowing for bad directors and producers to keep giving us crap.
Replies
they do, it's called Transformers: Animated.
Hahaha. That would be bloody retribution indeed.
- Jetfire is an SR-71... that turns into an 'old man' robot using his landing gear as a cane
- That two wheeled robot smashing through that bridge, with Optimus maybe 1/3 his height - is only 1 out of 7 parts of Devastator. Movie Devastator is apelike, and has a funky glowing mouth.
- "Arcee" is one of three fembots who turn into motorcycles, IIRC 2 of which are monowheels.
- Sideswipe is one of the coolest looking bots EVAH.
The BAD stuph:
- "Mudflap" and "Skids" - two incredibly moronic Autobot "twins". Skids has a gold tooth with an autobot symbol on it.
And more...
- Megatron - does he return? Is he Galvatron? There's spoilers in Hasbro's lineup for the summer, but I'm not gonna spill the beans.
I can't wait for the movie!
i'll still go see this in the theatre. sigh.
Keep Michael at Bay! Just say NO to TF2!
<britanny fan> Leave Team Fortress 2 ALOOONNNE!
Yeah, it's not Schindler's List; it's a movie based on a cartoon that was based on a toy. I get that. What I don't get is why Bay, Orci and Kurtzman insist on the "slapstick" lowest common denominator. The Dark Knight is based on equally juvenile source material, was treated realistically rather than childishly and turned out to be a truly great film. Not coincidentally, it also made $200 million MORE than Transformers did in the US.
Just because a film is based on comics or cartoons doesn't mean it can't aspire to be fucking incredible cinema. I hate that anyone settles for American Pie with robots when there was so much more potential.
Ugh, I'm angsty.
It did indeed make that much more, but I do know a lot of people, specifically women, that only watched it because they were saying farewell to Heath Ledger.
Though, in the end, the money is all that really matters.
As far as Bumble Bee crying, it's true. He basically transforms the pieces around his head in order to bring up the windshield wiper water jets and sprays his eyes with water. Thus giving the illusion of crying. Silly, yeah, but makes sense if an alien is trying to find a way to get a human to sympathize with him.
On the whole Batman vs TF analogy you have:
While they can both be said to be based on children's fiction, TF has almost never been taken seriously in it's own fiction. Batman on the other hand has tons of fiction that depict the world as a dark and gritty place for him to live in.
Some of the most serious fiction for TFs had feminists complaining that there were no female transformers, so they created Arcee...
On the other side, Transformers: The Movie had the death of Optimus Prime (I cried my 10 year old eyes out) and the whole 'coming of age' thing with Hot Rod. The comics were also pretty hardcore. Here's the issue I bought a few months before the movie came out - I remember it because the dying robots on the cover totally creeped me out: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/4/44/MarvelUS-17.jpg
At any rate, I'll just say that Bumblebee pissing on people was more juvenile than anything I remember reading or watching as a kid, and I'd have been so much happier if the property had been dealt with more realistically (a la Dark Knight, Iron Man, etc) rather than in silly, tongue in cheek fashion. I can't think of a single case in which a genre film that panders to silliness was better than one that treats it more seriously. Compare Luke's dismemberment in Empire to Jar Jar stepping in shit in Phantom - serious beats silly every day of the week, IMO.
The first Transformers movie could only really be enjoyed by going into it with low expectations. After the first ten minutes of seeing it, I saw all of the signs, and instinctively toned my expectations down to protect myself. Subsequently, I would prep anyone who hadn't yet seen the movie by lowering their expectations ahead of time. This worked wonderfully. My parents and younger brother were able to enjoy the film thanks to my intervention.
It is a big, dumb, summer action flick. It is very unapologetic about this fact. What are ostensibly the title characters are horribly shallow and underdeveloped. Although I won't be as acerbic about the experience as Vermilion, it is telling when you have to go into a film with adjusted expectations just to enjoy it.
And I definitely agree with calling the film "juvenile." I think that is a very apt description.
There is some hope for the sequel. One of the major issues I had with the first film was the way in which they handled the camera angles. Pulling the camera in close is a great way to make the big robots look big. But its also a great way to make action sequences that induce vomiting. From the trailer, it looks like they are going to be pulling the camera back a bit more for fighting and action scenes involving the robots. I'm also going to assume that Peter Cullen is still on board. That man has a fantastic voice. He can make even the most poorly written dialogue sound convincing.
Some possible SPOILERS
Nerd mode on:
Been keeping up with this for awhile now on the TFW2005 boards and such. You can see Megs in the new trailer. Orci has said they didn't want to name him Galvatron to avoid confusion for the common audience. Highlight for me is seeing what appears to be Megatron and Starscream fighting on top of that building. Orci and Kurtzman have said time and again that this is a far darker movie than the first, while still keeping the same feel and such of the first.
Oh, and Frank Welker has officially been cast as Soundwave now.
Marginally more realistic. Compared to Batman Begins, Dark Knight was a pretty dumb summer blockbuster with more of a 'comic movie' treatment, rather than the original idea of 'how would someone actually become this figure'. It lacked any sort of depth that the first Nolan film had. Miles better than Transformers though (obviously).
oh yeah.
I've kept up with this movie at The Allspark.
There's been tons of footage that has been let out.
you can check out more footage here:
www.skankerzero.com/post/ROTFsneakpeek.mp4
that footage includes the Bumble Bee crying scene.
Plus Devestator.
I'll still be catching this movie opening week, despite my opinion of Bay. If he fills it with stupid shit again, I'll be done with this movie series until someone other than Bay is in control of things. The Transformers storyline can easily make up the span of a movie without crude shit to fill time.
I wish I could say that
^ This.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vZX34mhSR4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etfw2005%2Ecom%2Ftransformers%2Dnews%2Ftransformers%2Dmovie%2Djust%2Dmovie%2D31%2Ftransformers%2Drevenge%2Dof%2Dthe%2Dfallen%2Dtrailer%2D3%2Dfirst%2Dl&feature=player_embedded
It's a movie about giant robots that transform into other things and fight. It has eye candy, hot chick and is entertaining.
Damn some people are just way to bitchy...
Hey woo woo. This is serious business buddy.
He's got a point though...
^This.
This isn't Citizen Kane. It's an entertaining popcorn movie. Maybe it's cuz I'm a fan of the franchise anyways, but the first one was everything I wanted from a live action TF movie, and this one apparently goes even deeper into the mythos, so that's a win win for me.
And shit, Devastator! He's freakin huge!
Hot chick(s) with take charge attitudes ("You shoot, I drive!") ? Check.
More giant robots beating each other up? Check.
I'm in.
Jesse,
I personally have issues with the designs of the robots. They're nice and detailed, but there's quite a bit to be said for silhouettes and readability, both of which I found somewhat lacking in the first movie. It was hard to tell if you were looking at an arm or a leg or what during many scenes.
There's a couple big plot holes that bothered me with the original. IE how did they know the cracked glasses held that information? Also why was the all spark cube allowed to shrink and expand, but none of the transformers were allowed to? (I know some arguments can be made for this, but those I've heard so far are fairly weak)
There's also the fact that the focus of the movie felt less on the humans and more on shia la douchebag and megan fox. The autobots were more bumbling idiots that ever before. Yes there were somewhat within the original series. Also bumblebee was butchered and bumblebee was a favorite character of mine from the original series. Fine with him being a camaro and all, but the lack of a voice and the whole character was off.
Remember, this is just my opinion. Obviously some people share my views. And it's the internet so of course so things get blown out of proportion. You also have to remember Jesse that some here grew up with the original transformers and loved them then and still prefer the original series. I think they call it the nostalgia factor
And some people just have low standards :poly106:
Burn....lol Thanks ass...
I grew up with G1 and have tried watching it again, and just can't... it's pretty terrible.
Yeah that's pretty much my thought process for his movies.
As for 80's cartoons turned into movies... Anything from when we were kids will not live up to the hype our brain's give it (including the original) because when we were young we made things a million times cooler with our creativity. But we didn't differentiate the real thing from the cool shit we came up with in our minds when we put it into memory. So what we remember cartoons being like is a lie. They weren't that smart and witty, we just wanted them to be so we made them that way.
Perhaps so, but the fucking old animated movie with Unicron is motherfucking awesome and always will be.
Gotta say, though, anybody that chooses college over a transforming robot is a sucker.
QFT.
Yea really, he might as well just pawn Bumblebee for some keger money while he is at it.
I can only watch the first half.
It's pretty goddamn terrible as soon as Ultra Magnus takes over.
The fight at the end is pretty ok.
oh, and:
But after that, it's a jumbled mess that only exists to convince kids that the new toys coming out were "kewler" than the ones they had since the beginning. It's ONLY redeeming feature is Orson Welles and Leonard Nimoy as voices, and a single bright spot to cheer at - when the 'Unicronian' Decepticons blow the BEJEEZUS out of Ultra Magnus on Junk.
Which brings another point. As a kid, I could NOT understand why Optimus Prime, who was mostly intact but had cracks in various places, could NOT be saved, but Ultra Magnus (who was blown to pieces) COULD be saved. UGH. They could have at LEAST given a pseudoscientific gobbledigook answer, like his "laser core was breached" or something.
The movie is fluff, as has been thouroughly established. And as I pointed out, going in with lowered expectations makes it possible to enjoy it. And yet I can't help but yearn for something better. Less humans, more robots!
This is transformers :
[ame]
I think we all agree!!
And Terminator 2 was about two robots -one that transforms- going back in time and fighting each other in the immutable past. I think it was handled better than this IP. Our industry revolves around stupid ideas being treated seriously - or at least passionately - by those working on them. Simply abstracting the premise out of context is not reason enough to be okay with crap.
And transformers the 1986 movie sucked, they killed prime and tried to replace him with someone younger and cooler. They seriously missed the mark with design of both forms and the characters personality. And yea that stuff with megatron, was super lame.
I have to agree with this,. I attempted to watch an episode of Exo Squad on Hulu the other day and was just bored to shits with it.
I've always thought that was a lame robot design.
Too much kibble. How the hell is he supposed to roll out of the way of gun fire? Hide behind something with those door wings? How the hell is he even supposed to just kneel down with the mass on his shins?
How much screen time did most of these get in their first movies:
Dinos in Jurassic Park
Exoskeleton in Terminator
Gremlins in Gremlins
Actual Ghostbusting in Ghostbusters
I'm drawing blanks right now cause i'm falling asleep, but thing is that most first movies are on limited budgets and are there to prove a franchise. If it's successful, then the second movie goes all out.
I'd also like to believe that you, being part of this board and general industry, know how much money is spent for every second those guys are on the screen.
+2
Just because its a movie about robots, does not mean you leave your mind at the door. Thats an excuse allowing for bad directors and producers to keep giving us crap.
Soo anyhow..
"Those aren't ideas. They're special effects"
Keep Michael at Bay! Just say NO! To Transformers 2!