88% of demigod players are pirates
polycounter lvl 18
Here is the story,
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58213
First off they made the mistake of not having a demo. No demo means that people are a little more likely to just download the full game. With that said that's still an insanely high percentage for pirates to bought copy's. So what would you do about it if it was your game?
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58213
First off they made the mistake of not having a demo. No demo means that people are a little more likely to just download the full game. With that said that's still an insanely high percentage for pirates to bought copy's. So what would you do about it if it was your game?
Replies
They have their own client, called Impulse, which is just as easy as steam.
Although I wish they had a demo too (really on the fence about buying it, since money is tight), but I always hate the argument "I just downloaded it to try it, and I'll buy it if I like that." There's just no way of knowing that person isn't lying or just lazy in the end and wont. Its sort of like having a friend borrow a movie or game and be like "yeah I'll play it maybe and I might bring it back." Fuck you dude, bring my movie/game back, or don't take it at all. Even without a demo, accessing a friend or enough damn media on the internet to take a side of buy or no buy is available to everyone who even had interest in this game. Cheers to Gas Powered Games and Stardock, hopefully this shit wont happen with their RPG/RTS game.
jk.
sad though. isnt stardock that one company that has that download service that was supposed to revolutionize gaming?
Do what's been the obvious solution for a decade: Make the multiplayer segment compelling enough to buy the whole game.
From my knowledge, you don't need Impulse to get it, as there is a retail copy. But even if you do get it off of Impulse, you could simply uninstall Impulse when you are finished. Demigod would run by itself (unless they have it integrated with something in Impulse, but Sins runs without Impulse). I sound like a frikin pr person
... Seriously? The game is based around multiplayer. Multiplayer has never stopped people from pirating, with the exception of in MMO's, and even then it doesn't fully stop it.
And yea, I find this pretty rough, saw it earlier. I'm hoping to pick up a copy eventually here, looks like a great game.
Plus my desk wouldnt have broke all the sudden the other day by all legit copies weight while playing Quake Live, scared the shit out of me! :P
Question is how do you get the average Joe to care? Realistic speaking. There are no easy answers, otherwise we would know what to do already...
I would shoot my marketing department for not releasing a demo weeks ago to go with the cool gameplay vids they had floating around. I would shoot my distribution guy for not getting this on steam.
Then I would count my money and see how long until the game turns a profit.
Can't say the game interests me, not my sort of thing but the sheer number of people playing it pirated is crazy.
Demos help, but not to the extent people think.
Wow its like rain clouds and locusts follow Chris Taylor wherever he goes. There really does appear to be some kind of gypsy plague put on GPG. Also why do people think Stardock made the game?
I loved TA but holy crap what a rocky road since then.
Sorry but thats a bullshit excuse.
That doesn't make it any less true.
It's not an excuse of course, but games are extremly high priced. This is a subject I thought in discuss in a new topic but whaterever, it fits the discussion here. I can't pay 70 euros (90 USD) for a game. It is way too much than what I can pay. The last game I bought (and the last game I played) was GOW2 and it was 4 month ago. The game industry need to re-think their aproach... Steam was a good improvement but it is not enought.
I'm guessing people that make lame excuses have a slight twinge of guilt over what they are doing. Don't feel bad if you pirate, I think the majority of the human race is dishonest and will lie, cheat and steal if it benifits numero uno.
Yeah, I can understand why nobody bought it.
Doesn't make it any less wrong, you're not supposed to own something if the requirement to own it is to have paid for it. But it's easy to look at number of pirated copies and think "Oh my, pirates are destroying the business!" But frankly, most people who care for games will buy a game they think is good, and in many cases, taking away someone's ability to download pirated games won't make them buy more games, it'll just make them play less.
They should be glad that a lot of people are enjoying the game, at least....
Ah, but that would imply I actually go outside to a store, lol.
Yup Yup.
I like what Gabe Newell said about PC piracy, and Music piracy.
People pirate because it's a simply a BETTER service.
Then he came out with STEAM and proved how right his theory was.
If PC game developers made their games as a SERVICE, then they would also see a lot less piracy.
Battle.net is a pretty good example of that as well.
If you offer a lot of of DL-able content, continual upgrades, continual balancing, and actually SUPPORT the community, then you'll probably see a lot less piracy.
Otherwise stick to consoles
^_^
I honestly think you are wrong about that. a very small number of the people who actually think its a good game will go and buy it if they already ''have it''. Of the ones who download games illegaly, the people who dont like it is not gonna buy it, the people who do will keep using their copy as long as it works, then buy it or maybe not at all.
Ok there might be some Special exceptions of people who think they are ''honest'', who will pirate games then if its a really good game and they will think its worth spending their money to the developers as a thank you they will... out of 100 pirates how many would do that? 1-2?
Its so easy pirating a game... (Scenario: you are one of those who buy all good games that you pirate) Because every fucking time this discussion comes along people claim this is what they are doing. ---> Have a working copy, all works. willing even going to go through the trouble to go to the store and back unpack, uninstall, then reinstall the same game (maybe losing saved data, in which case you will have to replay some) And the average Joe or kid might have a hard time getting old saved files to work, not YOU, you sit on a games 3d art forum... :P
Comon you know people, and most people dont work this way.
FROM A PIRATES PERSPECTIVE:
I have a very good friend who I tried to make aware of the situation, he can now justify buying multiplayer games. ie not singleplayer experience games. I will try harder later again someday :P My point is you can get something for free only fools buy it. There are the fools who think its easier to buy it from a store. there are the fools that can afford it and the ones who think its wrong to steal. there are the fools that care about pc gaming and think it will disapear as we know it. Maybe more sorts of fools but they are all fools in the eyes of the people who pirate because in a debate you can hardly debate and come out on top to justify your purchase to the other person withouth looking like a rich douchebag or the fact that you dont have the knowhow, or guts to just grab what is free, and I know personally rich people who pirate games just as much, who will spend around 500-1000$ on a night out. It is easy math for a pirate.
Ok so the question is: What the fuck are we gonna do to tackle this? Maybe we can never stop all pirating but maybe we can somehow do something to get more sales. We cant expect all produced games to be excellent and be bestsellers that is unrealistic. We are a medium who are known to try new ideas and new types of experinces, some ideas work some dont. That is part of the beauty working with this. But for instance in this case with demigod CA 140,000 people were connected and 12% payed for it. Maybe it is not a ''good'' game(i dont know) but a lot of people definately showed an interest who didnt bother paying for it and I think that need to change. We need to change the attitud about pirating games. Hopefully Stardock can show a report in a few weeks about the numbers I think the same ratio will still be there.
Some of you have posted good points toward what can be done, thats what im intrested in hearing thanks.
Identify the problem:
Developers and publishers are not getting money for work done, why?
People dont buy games, they pirate them. Why?
-its free. (explained)
-its easy. (explained)
-its ok (accepted) you are not a bad person for doing this. (explained)
-there is no demo/ information about the game
-more?
Is people gonna stop?
No, not unless the reasons above are false
What can be done?
-make it cost to pirate game-no I think not
-make it harder? Maybe, hopefully soon. So far attempts have not worked and sometimes worked against (Im thinking starfox or u know that russian program that is like a virus)
-make it more unaccepted, Im thinking about this one but dont know a realistic way to accomplish this... yet.
-Demo? easy
-Make it easier to buy, like steam, make it less of a hassle to install, register. from when you buy the game and can actually start playing should be super quick. Gratifying the consumer that the bought the product not work against that.
-More!?
I am a happy good fool with food and wood.
Sorry for the long quote but seriously this is very true and though I dont have any numbers I would believe blizzards games do end up with much less piracy. I could be completely wrong but look at warcraft 3 or even starcraft. They still have fairly large community's online and it is understandable why. The games are made well, Have good content (lots of easily accessable user content aswell) and are fun to play online with friends! I mean obviously this kind of stuff does not assist single player games. They have tried multiplayer systems in single player games, Fable 2 is a good example, On the xbox 360 you could see your friends running around as just a little friend icon. I realise this isnt very effective but it has been tried.
Certain things in the future such as onlive may start to change the rates of piracy depending on how many developers jump onto the bandwagon of cloud type gaming. It makes sense but not really in the united states with slow internet speeds and capped monthly bandwidth. The onlive really does sound like a great distribution method for developers though, you save lots of money by not having to create packaging and savings by distribution methods. The only flaw really is internet connection speeds.
-NoltaN
*What Can Be Done?
-Make the game availible for buying at more places, Steam, shop. D2D etc
-Once you buy a game you cannot return it after trying it (yay this one!)* with this I think more people will skip the pirate to test thing (ending up in them not buying it at all no matter how good it is)
-Pricing. A game costs to much. can it be lowered? can it be lower again if piracy is lowered? (possible) Theory
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*Know poinless arguments to prevent piracy (I have seen people post, I am reading peoples posts)
-advertisements
-this game is no good. alot of people makes this more justified to pirate it. ''Exactly. It's not okay to steal a crappy car just b/c it sucks.'' says Sturm08 to that.
*Other
- I have noticed people dont like developers to complain about piracy. Irrelevant? probably I thought at first but then after thinking why? Because people think games companies are greedy and are making millions in profit on every single product they produce. Talking to some I make them realize this is not true. We start talking then when they say but Blizzard got 11+ millions of subscribers.... I say no that is a extraordinary exception and not the case for anywhere else.
From shacknews in the comments section): melt_core ''I have no interest in this game, but their attitude makes me want to buy it just to support them.''
Yeh make people aware of this and voila. Theory yes...
: Commander0Zero: ''You gaotta love PC gaming.... Developer sticks behind hard core PC gamers " we will not submit our customers with Draconian DRM!!!" PC gamers rejoice pirate the crap out of new game because "It's not as good as it should be why pay?"... Developer states "we will continue to stand behind those that destroy their own hobby but the high piracy count is causing connectivity issues for paying customers."... PC Gamers respond "stop wining about piracy!!!!" Microsoft rep talks to Dev and states "boy wouldn't your next game sell great on console"... Developer states "boy it would be nice to actually make a profit"and the rest is history... And 10 years from now pc gaming will be MMO's and free micro-transaction games while wii3/PS4/XBOX 720 dominate once proud pc franchises.....
-Blizzard, yeh these guys seem to be something right, they make stellar games then support them as a great service long after the release. Question is can other developers do this? will that help against piracy or is blizzard just a exception? Will it make people care about the other game developers as much as they do Blizzard? Theory to be tested
*Other Known true Facts
Pirated copies does not equal amount of sales lost
People know little about what goes into creating such a product. Some people thinks its 2 people in their basement still making hundreds of millions trillions $...
I agree with that. I meant, people who truly appreciate games will still buy them. I downloaded Fallout 3, and Far Cry 2, and Mirror's Edge, all relatively recently. I stopped playing two of them despite enjoying them like crazy, because I wanna save some for after I've bought them. Looking at my budget, that could take a year... But I will buy them as soon as I can. And a lot of people do that. We who truly appreciate the media. Though I do believe we are minority.
I really don't know. Probably both of those reasons, and many others. Of course my respect goes out to the people who made the game, as well, but I never consciously keep them in mind when playing. It may be a minor part of it.
I'm ready to chalk it down primarily to selfish reasons. Do you remember how it feels when you get a notification that a package has arrived and you go to pick it up? Or if you get them delivered straight to the mailbox. Then you pick it up, touch it, look at it, and you feel like you finally own it, and you can do whatever you want with it. Even if you only play it through once, you'll probably end up putting it proudly on a shelf, not because you want to store it someplace you can access it easily, but because it's yours. Part of a growing collection.
I suppose I'm a game enthusiast?
Honestly taking what Rox said this initial influx? Will fall off. Its the newest pirated game. Once those whom have checked it out, and wouldn't buy it anyways (probably about 90% of those pirating). Those numbers will drop to the purchasers which give a real basis of whom bought it.
After about two months they should revist to see what the ratio is.
A game enthusiast pay 350-500+ euro for a graphic video card (Ati and Nvidia are happy!!), and owns a gamer rig of more than 1500 euro. A game enthusiast nowadays, don't pay for games beacuse they are free on the internet, and they enjoy more than paying because they play all what they like. The money they don't waste on games, is earned by companies like Nvidia. It's like in life, somebody will be rich with the "doom", "dead" of others. It's a circle... ying yang! haha
All this is very sad... the law does not defend them against piracy, and we all know who downloads ilegal contents. People will learn how to stay polite if they get a nice fine for their acts. The fault is not only of those who shared the ilegal files.
This is a question of morality, and there's no moral in this corrupted society, we are in crisis, and ppl tend to be worse.
One player games should dissappear.
Developers should copy the strategic of other developers with less piracy. The pc is a bad territory, there's no need to be a nice developers offering a product without DRM or internet requeriment and validation for playing.
I don't think 'we are in crisis', and in general I think morality has improved over the last 500 years. Offering a product without DRM is a sales move, since it has been proven in the past that extensive copy-protection just generates ill will towards your company and product, and does nothing to stem piracy. Publishers are finally beginning to realize that DRM hurts only those who are legitimately purchasing their products.
Online games are kindof safe thanks to server bans ...
... but I certainly hope that one player games will still be around! Don't you want games like Portal anymore?
And illegal download fines don't really work do they? If I want a game but want to avoid exposing myself by downloading it, no copy protection software will ever prevent me from getting it from my cool geek neighbor, just like in 1999. Remember the cool kid selling pirated audio CDs for a few bucks?
I agree with the issues you underlined, but disagree with the fine thing. I don't have any solution to propose, but I know I disagree with yours :P
Also, someone bring back PC demos! Maybe on a unified platform like Steam. That would be a first step, and would make the 'I just pirate it to try it' argument look silly. I know it pisses me off to hunt for game demos all around the place, as opposed to the gamer's heaven that XBL Gold Marketplace is.
I think one of the reasons behind the success of p2p platforms is that they are indeed platforms. You go there, you KNOW you'll find all the games you want. If there was a generalized Steam (and for retail copies : Steam-at-the-mall kind of thing, burning the disc for you) maybe that whole situation would change? Game packaging is often horrendous anyways (I recently threw away all my game and DVD boxes except for special editions, you wouldn't believe the space gain!!!)
However I like buying used game gems too so the platform idea kindof breaks here. I'm sure my PS2 copy of REZ wouldn't be available at the mall burner. However I can still find quality 70s and 80s movies everywhere ... So maybe it's all about the recognition of video games as a quality media in the end.
Peace!
The people fired recently, or without work, are in crisis. If you receive a salary, it's hard to feel the crisis, it doesn't touched you. If your parents work, and you live nicely at home, you surely won't feel the bad situation. There are too many people without "pay of unemployment" in my country (you got 6 months of help only), and the commerce here is not really good. You can appreciate how people don't buy as years ago, the trash we generate, is a 50% lees than years ago. The People consume less, and too many companies are falling down because they don't sell a shit.
One of them is a huge steel international enterprise as Acerinox, with a factory in Ohio. Here, workers are in a temporal regulation of employment, you work 15 days, you don't work 15 days and i'ts expected a true regulation. By the moment, all the affiliated companies, providing services, are like DEAD or have closed. Now tell me that we are not in crisis when too many friends are in a dramatic situation, tell me
sighs... and you say morality has improved? LOL
The fine is something harsh, but it's like there's no solution to this problem. Are you agree with the sarkozy model?
One thing i know, is that you cannot make a product relying on the kindness of the people. People does not care if they hurt you or not, they only see the possibility to have something without paying, and that's great BTW. Money they save to buy a super mega computer to download all for free.
I think we all agree that music is too expensive compared to what goes to artists. Anyone knows the average ratio going to the devs for games? That's the most important figure I think. Cut the greedy middle man.
Is there really a single DRM system that's not bad in a way anyways? Itunes store is just messed up, someone sent me an album as a gift when I opened my account and I don't think I have ever been able to ever listen to it since I made the DREADFUL mistake of retrieving the gift code on my work machine at the office. I had to email the Apple geniuses to get an exceptional permission to redownload the thing!!! But still it does not copy to my player for fuckwhat reason. That reminds me to get it on btjunkie now hehe.
And with games... well I must say I HATE having stuff running in the background. It might be fine for average teen #57 chatting on messager and downloading iphone apps, but I certainly don't want Google/Acrobat/Apple/Russian DRM updaters running 24/7 in the background while I am desperately trying to render an AO map
I just made a rhyme too