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polycounter lvl 9
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A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
Been working on one prop every class. We have about 3 hours to start from a concept image and recreate the main item from the scene with some guidelines. Max tris 1500. Max tex 512 x 512.

In this case we had a choice between some street utility boxes. Here is what I got in the given time.

utility_box.jpg

Any c & c welcome

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  • Wilex
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    Wilex polycounter lvl 16
    Hi A.Kincade, Thats cool that you did it so quickly but your render isn't helping. The texture looks blurry and the edges look jagged. Also your normal and spec map don't appear to be helping your material at all i imagine this piece would look the same without those maps applied.

    The normal map looks like you just ran your diffuse through the photoshop filter. It isn't bad to use the filter but you have to determine which parts of the texture need to be normal mapped. Right now i don't see enough details to justify a normal map or a spec map. If the box had some more wear on it there might be some more detail to show and push in a specular map or normal map.

    To fix the blurry textures if your working in maya each texture has a filter applied to it by default when you bring them in so under the file attributes for the texture there's a Filter type which you should turn to off. Also under your render settings you can make adjustments to get a clearer sharper image by upping your Anti-Aliasing quality and changing your Multi-Pixel Filtering to Lanczos should give you some crisp results.

    If your using Max in your render settings under the Renderer tab there's Antialiasing change the filter to Catmull-Rom and this should give you better results as well.

    Hope that helps good luck.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    - Gossioii - Thx. Glad you can reference back to it. Hope it helps.

    - Wilex - Thx as well. If I looked at this image I would normally say, yeah this doesn't need too much normal for the fact that the box was so clean. There was quite a few choices where the normals would have been really important so it was mandatory to have them all in there for each piece. As for the spec, it was givng me a tough time getting to look right. I think I need to darken most of the spec except the brighter stickers.

    Good to know that stuff about the blurry textures. I use Maya a lot and I'll make sure to remember to change that stuff next time I bring in some textures. I don't use Max that often but also good to know.

    Thx for the advice and comments.
  • Gannon
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    Gannon interpolator
    it's a good start =D!

    You can probably lower it down some more by making a really low poly cube sticking it over top of your current model and then transfer map the normals to get rid of all the excess loops making the doors and cracks.

    Also I'd throw some dirt down on the bottom left corner and on the side like in the reference and recheck that placement/size of the serial codes on the upper left side. but that's only if you're getting nit picky :p

    Speed can make all the difference when in the work place, some studios work on really tight schedules so 3 hours from start to finish is a nice guide from what I've heard. I could be wrong though.
  • Mark.N
    Huh, so that's what I gotta make eh.

    Not too bad, like others have stated the normals/spec could use some love but I think that comes from lack of any real interest in the ref image. It's just kinda boring. Something like this would benefit from just doing another pass on the texture/model and adding some character to it, graffiti/mud/grime/dents/scratches, which would give you a lot more info to use in your spec/normal; not to mention strengthening the overall piece in the process.

    Hell, with a bit of love and some ingenuity you could probably find a spot for it inside of your warehouse.

    -Mark
  • Shogun3d
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    Shogun3d polycounter lvl 12
    I like how the Electrical Boxes from Emer's class are starting to flood the count.

    Don't mean to hijack your thread Anthony ol' buddy, but to pitch in my 2 cents, you modeled accurately to the photo but you can always push more of that for entertainment value. Subtle details such as stains, chippings, even paint can tell a story, or like Mark said, Grafitti.

    Here's the box I did for Emers class as well, I decided to throw white paint on the outer box and chip it, making it look worn.

    This stuff is good practice, and you're headed in the right direction. I'd say if you run out of time, don't worry just go back into it later. It's better to spend more time and nail the texturing, etc down instead of leaving something halfway done. Keep it up!
    electricalbox_render-1.jpg
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    - rdmlegend - I see what your saying about the size/placement and the dirt. I'll make sure to fix that when I go back to this.

    - mark - Yeah you missed this one. I'm sure he'll let you make it up. There was quite a few "good story" type images but I wanted to make sure I picked one that someone else was not using. Not sure if I can use it for the warehouse because it's really made for outdoors, but I'll keep it mind. Could make for a cool thing to grind on from off a ledge or something.

    - kaburan - Yep. Good ol' Emer happy fun time. :) I understand what you guys are saying about adding more to it, grunge, graffiti, etc. I was just trying to match the ref as close as possible in the given time. Now since I like how it turned out I can go back and give this thing a little more personality.

    Thanks for the advice and comments. Much appreciated.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Starting our first main project. Close to the same guidelines as the other exercise. 1500 tri limit. 1024 tex space.

    Here is what I have so far. w.i.p....

    project_1_shot_3.jpg

    Here is the concept I'm working from...


    concept.jpg

    C & C welcome as always.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Here is what I got for the first project. Working with the medical cart thing from the concept....

    project_1_final.jpg

    C & C welcome.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    We are moving on to project 2 which consists of picking a concept weapon from a pretty good variety of images. 1000 tri limit. 512 textures.

    Here the concept that I have picked. If I'm not mistaken it is a High Elf weapon from Warhammer.

    project_2_image.jpg
  • 00Zero
    hey, you should really consider using something else to render your objects. something that uses reflections or that would actually show your spec.

    the electrical box looks good. I would add some subtle dirt on the bottom of it. and for stuff thats made out of sheet metal like this, i usually overlay a subtle normal map to get large dents out of it. I dont know if its a secret or not, but ill post it anyway, i use like a normal map that was made from an actual tin baking tray or something. Its good for that kind of stuff because it has large dents as well as small dents so it has a good frequency of details. and it will always help with sheet metal stuff like yours because it will catch the light better.

    anyway. I wouldnt chip SO much paint off of it. A lot of people do that, and it makes it look very gamey. I used to do that a lot, i still do sometimes. But, in moderation its good, just dont go over the top with it and chip and scratch every edge.

    the medical cart looks weird because ive never seen anything like that before. Id imagine it would be made of plastic though, not metal. and its too noisy and scratched up. its just a personal thing, but i hate when people throw blood on stuff, i dont know, its just me. :)

    but yea, you should really consider using some kind of game engine that uses spec/reflections because its not showing up at all in your renders, plus your render (for the medical cart at least) is coming out reeeeally blurry like youre not using any filtering. try marmoset.


    as for modelwise, you have some loops that serve no purpose really. like on the medical cart, you have 3 loops going at a 45 angle near the top and 3 loops going horizontal near the middle. really, you only need 2 loops. that woudl cut down the count by a lot and you would not notice the difference.

    this 3 hour thing sounds interesting, but dont limit yourself if you dont finish, finish it later at home or something.


    for metals, make the diffuse rather dark. and let the spec/reflection do the work. this is where youd really need to use a renderer that uses the spec well.

    good luck on the axe thing, looks cool.
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    the models look good but the textures bad. Maybe it is the presentation but I miss harmony in the textures. The medical cart for example looks as it has colour noise, what I think is wrong is that the textures are to rough and have to much noise contrast in them. For example I would never interpret that concept of the medical cart that way - instead I would rather assume that the material is rather something more solid like plastic or at least painted with a layer that is more fine and solid and rusty metal. Same for the blood if by any means blood needs to appear on it at least not that splattered and massive like that.
  • Loraine Howard iii
    Hey Kincade whats up, glad to see some of your work on here. I like what I see so far but I totally agree with renderhjs and all the other people on this thread. I think your textures take away from the models themselves, mainly because of the textures being bland and blurry. I think if you went for a more plastic painted approach on the medical cart it would resemble it better. Oh and i would also calm down on the blood as well, but that's just my opinion.:\ If you can not render these props in a game engine i would definitely put them in some type of hdri to show off the spec. Keep the good work up, I'm sure you will get better with the render,texture process.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    if i were you i'd stop to reflect a bit on what you're doing..
    you're using full normal maps.. but only for very small details(scratches and bumpyness)
    you're missing out some really good uses for normal maps. the cart's wheels, diamond plating, slits in what would be the working area

    that street utility box is in essence a box. you could probably get away with making it 12 polies + normal map... mirrors edge got away with it anyway >_>


    secondly the presentation could use some work
    the rendered images are rather blurry.. the cart rendered at this size can have every onscreen pixel be a real pixel (the render is about 512 pixels high and your texture is 2x that)

    if you're doing work for a single project it might also be wise to get some sort of base layout for the presentation images like for instance these 2 images:
    http://www.dark-winter-studios.com/images/rufus/rufus1.jpg
    http://www.dark-winter-studios.com/images/kolt/kolt2.jpg


    my advice would be to do one model slower this time, and try to get it as perfect as possible in a reasonable amount of time, instead of getting something done as fast as possible and it turning out kind of meh.
    doing things fast will happen, but if you try to force it you might end up with some really bad habits of cutting corners where you shouldn't
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    - 00Zero - Yeah I'll try giving Marmoset a try. I normally don't add blood or do the overly chipped thing. I was really tripped out by this thing. I was trying to think of things of it to be made of and what it may be used for. Couldn't really think of any really logical things so I splattered it up a bit. :) I will tone it down or use it more sparingly next time. I'll give that denting thing a try some time as well.

    - renderhjs - Glad you think the modeling is at least ok. Yeah I'm pretty bad with texturing, lighting, etc. Trying new methods and having a hard time getting stuff to look right. Never really thought of it being plastic but now I'm sure that would've been a better choice.

    - sir Howard III - Yeah thanks to Wilex I now know why my stuff is turning out so blurry. Not only could I render out larger and bring down, also I need to turn some filters off when I applly my textures. I now know where this is located and will continue to put it into practice to get crisper textures. Also need to figure that Marmoset thing out to get some better renders.

    - snader - Believe me I'm not trying to cut corners. I'm limited on time and my skill and efficiency level are not quite where I would like them to be at this time. I am definetly reflecting on what I've been doing and what is and is not working. I see what your saying about missing out on the good uses for the normal maps. Will attempt in future projects.

    Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I will do my best to immplement these things with this next project and see if I can get a better result. I appreciate the time and the help.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Here is what I got. Going to go back and add more scratching to the blade edges and change a few things in the texture details.

    project_2_comp.jpg

    C & C welcome.
  • Marnik
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    Marnik polycounter lvl 8
    looks good to me so far, but then again I'm incredibly new at this >_<

    Think we can get some shots at different angles?
  • Quokimbo
    That blade looks...interesting? I am talking about the mesh part of things...

    I would like to see it rotated as well.
  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher veteran polycounter
    the texture on that blade looks pretty blurry, whats the size on it? right now it looks about 256. the various material types need to be defined more in the spec as well as some more detail in the diffuse instead of being straight flat colors.

    matches the concept pretty decently, just need to work on sharpening up the textures and getting your various maps working well with each other.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    - Marnik - thanks. I'm fairly new at this as well.

    - Quokimbo - yeah I'll post some different shots when I get home from class tonight.

    - PixelMaster - the textures are at 512. I will go back and add more in the spec and diffuse.

    Thx for the comments and advice.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Here is a quick shot of some different angles. Sorry it took so long.

    project_2_reshot.jpg
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    For our next project we've been working on an object found on the streets. I picked some trash cans. Here is the image of them.

    20070601_0012_0016.jpg

    Here is what I have so far on the model. 1024 textures and the tri limit is 2000. Sitting around 1500 tris atm. Will post some updates on the textures soon.

    project_3_progress.jpg

    c & c welcome.
  • Rokkx
    the area around the handles on the lid dips in on the reference. Also are there hinges on the lid?
  • Rhinokey
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    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 18
    yes you are off to a start.. but the thing would be to pay a little more atention the first piece, the writing on the model is a sticker, but since you just converted the texture to normal map. the writing on the stickers have normal detail, this is wrong and really a noob thing to do, a normal map is not something that just makes wibbly wobbly lightly wighty stuff on your object, it shoudl server a purpose.
  • RickFX
    i dont think you need to make the wheels that poly heavy.

    - Rick.
  • Pope Adam
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    Pope Adam polycounter lvl 11
    Hey Anthony

    I don't think you've modeled the top of the trash bucket accurately from the photo reference, speicifically that top part where it's like an extruded square shape that bevels back inside. The photo shows it being a little rounder and not so deep of a bevel. You c an see the hsape of it on the yellow trash can from the inside of the bottom of the lid.

    One other small thing is the handles. The ones you've modeled are just attatched to the top, but the photo shows a small indent in the lid beneath them that would be pretty easy to model in and wouldn't take many poly's if you removed some of those loops from the wheels, u can still keep your tri count low.l

    I think that the bottom of the can tapers a bit too drastically in your model. In the photo they are a little more striaght up and down with a very slight taper.

    off to a good start sir
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    - Rokkx - Yeah I have recently added a hinge/handle on the back of the lid. I totally spaced it. Good eye.

    - Rhinokey - I get what your saying about the stickers. Makes sense.

    - RickFX - I had lower poly wheels before hand and changed my mind to go higher. I'll switch them back.

    - Sir Williams - I see what your saying about the taper. Will make it more straight up. I'll add those indents under the handle once I switch out them wheels. I didn't really look at the underside of the yellow one. That helps me understand it a little better. Good idea.

    Thx for the advice and comments. Will add these updates and post some texture shots soon.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Made some simple changes. Got rid of taper. Optimized the wheels a tad. Added dip by handles and added a hinge for the back of the lid.

    Had to turn this in today. Got as close as I could. Could be better but I think it'll do for now.

    p3_ss.jpg

    C & C welcome. Thanks again for the advice.
  • Pope Adam
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    Pope Adam polycounter lvl 11
    Looks a lot beter man, textures are lookin pretty good right now too although I think you could take some liberty with them to make them more interesting.

    right now they look very very similar to the photo reference (most likely this was your goal, and good job) but I think you could revisit these cans and add your own character to them with grunges, duct tapes, dents, sun damage etc to make them more your own.

    good work anthony
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Thx Adam. I was trying to stick the image as much as possible but I like idea of the sun damage and the duct tape and dents. Would make it more interesting. Maybe I'll do the yellow one and add trash bags and what not as well.

    Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated man.
  • Mark Dygert
    Nice cans...

    Did you model the hole in the top or just paint black?
    What about adding some horiz loops and bulging them out a bit?
    You could probably do away with the axle if you moved the wheels closer to the bin.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Thx Vig. I did model the hole on top but when I added my AO it blacked the inside out. Probably go back and delete that section from the map. The axles are about 10 or 12 tris a piece but I get what your saying about just moving in closer.
  • Narodnik
    For the future when doing plastic, up the spec (even if it's painted on, duno what you did on your last trash can) on the edges and the more exposed areas. These places will get their matte synthetic serrated surface worn down and reveal more gloss and shit.

    If you look at your ref you can clearly see it. It's like the one thing seperating them. GL

    E

    Yeah, you should also lower whatever plastic texture you've got going on on these areas. Like the spongy esque thing you find on the trash can.
  • stimpack
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    stimpack polycounter lvl 10
    I like the roundness on the edges in the reff. You didnt capture that, and it lost alot of its character. I agree totally with the spec comment. This might benifit greatly from a gloss map.
  • Pope Adam
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    Pope Adam polycounter lvl 11
    about the roundness - that could be a super easy quick fix. Judging by your wireframe you could just spread out those edges a bit more and it'll make the corner more gradual like the reference.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    - Narodnik - I get what your saying. I'll mess with the spec some more.

    - stimpack- Will address with new spec.

    - Adam - I see what you guys getting at. Make a more gradual transition. Its too tight/compact right now. I will change when I update that spec.

    Thanks for the advice and comments. Much appreciated. Will update soon.
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