Education Advice( how not to become a hobo)
polycounter lvl 15
As most of you know there comes a time in life where you stand at the crossroads of life. Right now im standing in small interscetion of roads that some day may lead to a bigger highway and have a great impact on my life. My problematic schematic is that after finishing an education of 2 years that taught me a decent amount of knowledge of 3D and made me to the aspiring enviroment artist that I am today:) I am now considering weather to get more education or get a job. Right now I`m 21 and have an internship at a small compay here in Sweden.
If I am to get the job here at this small company, I would work long hours and have a small pay check, not to mention that you are stuck in a town the size of SuperMarket. Education would drag me out of there and maybe give me time to develop my skills so I can achieve a better starting job(and away from the shithole).
My next question then would be what kind of education I should get that would help me? Any advice and tips or some words of wisdom that would keep me off the streets or becoming a hobo will be greatly apreciated!
If I am to get the job here at this small company, I would work long hours and have a small pay check, not to mention that you are stuck in a town the size of SuperMarket. Education would drag me out of there and maybe give me time to develop my skills so I can achieve a better starting job(and away from the shithole).
My next question then would be what kind of education I should get that would help me? Any advice and tips or some words of wisdom that would keep me off the streets or becoming a hobo will be greatly apreciated!
Replies
I went to my first job, to bring in a check, and continued my education at the same time. it's tough, and it sucked, but it worked out for the best i think.
tough call for sure.
At the very least, when you decide to go back to school you can get a bunch of the BS out of the way and focus on what you are really interested in.
Education is good, but its not everything. Experience can count a lot more heavily, as I don't know a school anywhere that can fully prepare you for the workforce right out of it. You'd still have to put in loads of time on the side to get your skills up and maintain them at industry standards outside of school, so might as well take the job. The schools will be there later if you need them, or do like animatr says and do both. Just keep the schooling to a manageable level.
I don´t really think there is a right and wrong answer here though.
1) Stay in the shithole. You would toughen up and strive to become a badass in art so you can get out of there. Work experience is always a plus as others have said.
2) More education. You are young after all. If i was in your situation i would apply to art schools all over and see what happens. Traditional art knowledge and pen-wielding is a must to be a badass in my opinion. Sure you can learn for yourself and everything.
Also, a degree does help a shitton when it comes to getting into America and what not.
Anyway. My vote would be that you apply to a few various other companies and schools (Art-related) and take it from there. That way you have the job as a backup but might get a better opportunity elsewhere. It´s never bad to have more choices and no matter what choice you make and as long as you dont burn your bridges, You won´t screw yourself over. At least this is my opinion.
But yes. Don´t say no to the job just yet
-We really work long hours here, Im talking 9:30 am to as late as 19:30-20:00pm by the time I get home, that does not give me much space for a second "online" education, nor do I have much time for my own personal projects.
-As Im an entry level artist at a small company, it seems often that Im not used for my potential and instead i find myself doing work that doesnt get me anywhere, or does not develop me as an enviroment artist.(not allowed to say what kind of work because of the NDA, but u get me)
+Taking a break from this would help set up a portfolio (as most of my stuff now are outdated ) and some time to develop what I have learned so far.
+I also aim for a higher role in the industry when Im older, im thinking art director or at least some kind of lead position. That would require some extra degree in some kind of art school. Any adviceon that matter?(that I think is the most important part for me, that I someday will shape games in my vision and really get to contribute to the gaming industry with my ideas...if that ever happens)
My current AD graduated from a Art Institute back before they where ever teaching anything like what they are now. He's a great AD but its easy to tell how he got where he is. Great artistic and leadership skills.
Of course if you're applying for the position of AD from the outside (not working your way up internally) a higher ed degree could help. But it's going to be more about your artistic skill and your ability to lead and guide people.
Sorry to hear about the long hours, that's rough. Its going to be hard to get anything done in your spare time. Personally I wouldn't stick around any place that worked me that hard and didn't have some kind of compensation, more pay, a higher ranking job ect... But maybe there's a chance to prove your leadership skills or perhaps grow in the tech artist field by helping them rework their pipeline so they don't have to work such crazy hours? This could be a good talking point in future interviews...
Expanding your technical knowledge could be a good way grow and learn as a next step. If you're going back to school I think tailoring it to help in this area would be highly beneficial. Artists with the knowledge and technical skill to make some pipeline roadblocks disappear are a prized jewel to be guarded. Mostly because it requires to learn two very different ways of thinking, sometimes one will win out over the other. If I was in your position and felt I had a good grasp on the art tools, I'd look to learn something more like some kind of programing language commonly used, such as python, Mel, and Maxscript.
If going back to school is what frees you up to work on your portfolio it could be a good idea to go back. I wouldn't count too much on that higher ed doing much for you other then giving you more time or possibly fulfill the requirements for a work visa?
Also the market, she's not doing so hot right now. So instead of banging your head on closed doors it might be a good time to bunker down and work on the skills.
But that statement is an oversimplification.
If your goal is to advance in this industry, then the sooner you get your feet in it the better. I would keep your enthusiasm in check though. We all started wanting to make our own superfly-TNT games, but most of us now just want to make sure we get a paycheck.
College is a great experience. You meet lots of new people, you learn many interesting, enlightening, and dirty things, and it's just a fun time all around. It has to do more with personal growth, and little to do with a career in this field. I know here and there people say, "oh a traditional art degree will take you far in the gaming field". It's rubbish. No one gives a shit about it. In all my interviews, no one has asked me about my schooling, they just want to talk about work. Even mod experience has way more weight than a bachelor's degree.
But you should consider college because it will make you a better person. Life is not all about work, and despite what Obama says, you won't be able to do everything you set your mind to. In college I met my current girlfriend, the love of my life, the woman who I will probably marry and have a busload of kids with, and just for that it was worth it.
You're young and you have to time to do it all. I was 25 by the time i finished my undergrad so I needed money fast.
I think this issue can be broken down into simpler requirements.
For a successful gaming career:
You need 3D skills. You're learning those at your current job. Even though it may seem boring and beneath your expertise, you're still learning and practicing.
You need traditional art skills, drawing, composition, color relationships etc. You can learn these in college, you can learn them by yourself, you can learn them in a Saturday class at your local art studio. You have lots of options but you do need these skills to be not just a good artist but a great artist.
You need to keep your work updated, and learn new things. I could go on and on on this topic, but we all know how it works and this post is long enough for now.
So yeah....
My first art job was in medical animation. Dry as hell, but I learned a lot and got to do personal projects in the downtime.
Being in a small town with little to do also may have its advantages. Set aside a couple of evenings a week for personal projects and portfolio development. After all, you won't be missing much socially, right?
what ArtsyFartsy said about traditional art in games industrie if funny cause my traditional art teacher here told us for art director it would be only helpfull and for concept artist.
Your situation is so very close to the one I was in, I had to post one more time here. I was 22 when I was working my first job in an almost permanent crunch period that meant my days were almost the exact same as yours. The work was simple and un-challenging, but there was a lot of it that needed to be done. I stagnated artisticly for months, but I also built up a reputation in the company as a fast, efficient worker who you could take anything to and trust it would get figured out.
Experience, contacts and who-you-know is everything in this industry. You won't get any of that in school.
My biggest mistake was thinking that I had 'made it' and stopping to push myself on my own. Long hours or not, the only way I was going to get better is to put in time on the weekends on my own stuff. I didn't, and it came back to bite me in the ass. If you have high aspirations for where you want to be in 5, 10, 15 years, then you need to do what so many others on this forum do, and just live and breath 3D, especially in your early days.
Use your days at work to build connections, experience and reputation.
Use your weekends to build your artistic ability.
In any case, you still have several hours to do what you like in the evening, or even in the morning. Do some portfolio development when you can in this time.
The whole world economy is in the shitter. I'd play it safe and stick with where you're at now and see how the rest of the year plays out. It's never too late to go back to school. And you're pretty young, just be careful not to burn any bridges with the studio you're at now.
Good luck to you my friend! Cheers.
Edit: I'm diggin' the Medieval project on your site by the way. Very nice.
Now as I start to process all the downsides and upsides of both options I get more and more confused of what I should do. The logical choice would be to take the job, but I have to think also of myself and what would satisfy me and my needs(What is logic or what the heart desires?). Goin to work when Im 21 means long way to retirement.
At the same time Im thinking that maybe this unecesary economic crise would probably come to an end by the time I study and put up a new portfolio, maybe it would get worse. Maybe the company I work on now would be forced to shut down in the future. Maybe and maybe, there are a million of outcomes and decesions, I should say I have to think this trough from beginning to end. But i guess the again that there are no shortcuts in life nor good or wrong decisions, but only a two sided coin. Every decision comes with pros and cons.
Gues I have to spin my head arround this tonight and get real.
Hehe ohwell that smell is pretty bad, my peers mention it everytime they talk about that place!
Sorry i dont know enough about the situation so I cant say if I think you should stick with the job or go study someplace. Go with your gut feeling, you know more than anyone else what you want to do. GL
So decided I would go for the jobb, but still applying for some schools as some kind of last resort. Ill just have to suck it up I guess for a period of time and do my best to at my jobb and evolve as an environment artist generally. Hopefully, maybe 5 years from now I would look back at the choices I made and realize that maybe that wasnt so bad afterall. Wish me luck people and maybe I see some of you on the "battlefield" a couple of years from now;)
You're not going to be stuck where you are for the rest of your life, so don't worry about that. The way the world is going, you'll probably have lived in 10 different countries by the time you're 50.
Just stick with your job for about 6 months to get a feel for it, and after that you can reconsider if you want to go to college. Life doesn't have to be a prison. If you're not happy where you are, you can change it for the better.
By the way, if you go to college, and a girl asks you to help her find her classroom, you run. You hear me, you run for your life!
Timing is everything in life, if you have an opportunity to work now, it might disappear later when you are in school or out of school.
My first animation studio job hired me out of my classroom, I applied, better more skilled guys didn't and decided to stay and finish. I got hired, worked through the rest of the year and finished 3 months after the others graduated, then the contract ended, I had time to work on portfolio stuff, then I got picked back up when work started again.
Those guys that stuck around and graduated? They had to wait a full year before they even got to sniff the inside of the studio, and quite possibly another 3 or 4 months before they could actually make money.
Be ready when opportunity knocks.
Have you ever lived in Coalinga, California, USA (see image below)? Or worked as a mosquito repellent tester?
Happy Easter everyone!
I'm quite open about how stupid I am, hah. I never went to college - simply couldn't complete the base courses. I held a 2.0-2.3 GPA through most of my high school years. I never even touched a PC until 1998. I taught myself everything I needed to know. I think I'm doing pretty well for not being college educated, having already been a developer for 9 years.
If you want to be in game development, it's about what you can do. Period.
Also, if you don't want to work long hours for low pay at a game studio, then that's fine. Work a normal job, making a better wage and start teaching yourself on the side. I was working a hardcore physical labor job as a glass cutter for over 2 years, while I taught myself 3D art/dev. It's not easy, but certainly not impossible, either. Just depends on how bad you want it. DO IT.
You = American
He = Swedish
Major part of the game industry is in america. At least most of the cool ones.
Getting a work visa without a degree = HARD (but possible). You getting work here is as far as i know much easier than the other way around. America is locked down pretty tight.
And i think most companies won´t care about you unless you have one.
On topic, I understand that Sweden is pretty big for indie game development. Of course, indie development isn't as good for paying the bills. Hopefully emerging digital distribution solutions will provide greater publishing opportunities for small developers.
As to education, I would strongly recommend learning a little MySQL. Especially if you are in the process of redesigning your website. Giving your website a database back-end is a good way to make it easir to update, and can provide a greater number of Web 2.0 opportunities in the future. Also, knowing how to produce and manage databases is a highly marketable skill.
I think that's why salaries appear to be irrelevant of education level. However, except for artists, a higher education should get you a higher starting salary. A masters in Computer Science starts at much higher pay than someone who is self taught with no college degree.
I could post images of all their salary charts but some asshole would complain i'm sure. These lawers are killing us.
Education for the purpose of getting a Vista is ridiculously important, no doubt. I worked with a bunch of brits at 5000ft, and they talked about all that jazz. Not fun, to be sure.
As for those lower salaries artsy fartsy - european workers generally get a lot more time off than most other nations. The average US worker gets 10 vacation days a year (which we usually also have to use for sick days as well).
Here's a few other euro nation tallys: Denmark (31days/yr), France (25days/yr), Germany (24days/yr) and Ireland (20days/yr). It doesn't sound like much, but time off prevents workers from getting burned out. A worker in Denmark gets 4 1/2 weeks off per year, while I get barely over a week! And if I get sick, I have to take time out of that. Less time off = more pay for us = more stress for us = we suck.
Bachelors or not, the skills need to be there, for any job. It's common sense.
If you suck at flipping burgers, then you're not going to flip burgers.
I wouldn't come to conclusions from a chart.