tesla sedan
polycounter lvl 18
http://jalopnik.com/5185844/tesla-model-s-sedan-concept-49900-seven+seater-electric-to-hit-streets-in-2011
"300-mile range, 45-minute fast charge capability, a 0-to-60 time of 5.5-seconds and seat seven. Production supposedly starts 3rd quarter of 2011."
and
"Sport and AWD models are being planned, but the stock model can run 0-60 MPH in 5.5 seconds using its single-speed transmission."
http://i.gizmodo.com/5185966/first-look-at-teslas-fantastically-giant-touch-lcd-console
all under 50k.
WOW!
"300-mile range, 45-minute fast charge capability, a 0-to-60 time of 5.5-seconds and seat seven. Production supposedly starts 3rd quarter of 2011."
and
"Sport and AWD models are being planned, but the stock model can run 0-60 MPH in 5.5 seconds using its single-speed transmission."
http://i.gizmodo.com/5185966/first-look-at-teslas-fantastically-giant-touch-lcd-console
all under 50k.
WOW!
Replies
However, most of us don't drive that far very often, and usually fly those sorts of distances.
I'm just glad someone made an electric car that doesn't look like ass.
Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks
I'll second that.
Top Gear's main argument against purely electric vehicles was the idea that, should you forget to fully charge it, you're stuck for however long it takes to get enough of a charge to get you home or to your destination, and even then you've got to wait for a full charge again to make it useful.
Hell, I forget to charge my cell phone and bluetooth earpiece occasionally, even with a charger both by my bed and at my desk at work. Imagine if you couldn't charge your car, or happened to forget to.
Personally, I'm generally a little biased towards the idea of hydrogen-combustion based power, and not just cause it'd mean I can get a nice cup of tea from my morning commute! :poly124:
I suppose if that were a good idea someone smarter than me would have already had it and put it into practice.
On the argument of Hydrogen Cell cars, there is a reason they haven't caught on that much. Well there seems to be a lot of reasons really. But from what I have read it would take tons of money and years to even get them to be possible, whereas electric is here now, it works great, and the infrastructure largely in place.
To comments about distance, and recharge times, I think the main idea is that this car isn't supposed to be the only care you have, just the main car you have. You can keep the gas powered car for the one or two long road trips you take but for the daily drives you would have no problem with this car. EVEN IF you forget to charge it. It has 300 miles!!! Most people don't drive more then 30-50 miles a day, which means you would have to forget to charge your car for almost an entire week before that baby would die out on you. And if you really can't remember to charge it when you park it at night after a week of driving, well then you definitely shouldn't get it, haha. And I wonder how you get around in your gas car now? I mean my tank of gas rarely lasted more then a week :S. These cars will have gauges and meters to tell you about low charge just like the gas gauge now, haha.
I drive to Austin (220 miles) Houston (270 miles) and South Texas (550 miles) regularly.
If they really want to make an impact on our society, these electric cars need to be priced much lower. I mean 50K really? For the base model? Hell, I'm having a hard time justifying the 17K I plan on spending on a Honda Fit. I've paid off 2 cars already and I'm not looking forward to getting back in debt again.
I'll just wait until Honda comes around and makes this technology affordable.
By all reasonable estimates that's another 5-10 years at the earliest and the only ones working on it are honda.
Your driving is a bit unusual, why do you go to those places on such a regular basis? I used to live in San Antonio, and almost never went further then Austin. Is it just to hang out with people and stuff?
The model for Tesla is not one targeted at you and me, but it's a smart move for them. They are going from the top downward, like most new and fancy tech. Their first car was a 109k sports car, This is there second car, 50-60k, Once they have proven the tech with those two vehicles and gotten a foothold in the market, improved and upgraded their tech, they have plans for a 20-30k normal economy vehicle like a prius and stuff like that.
I doubt I could change your views on electric, especially as a texan, I know the culture and the mentality, I lived there 22 years of my life, haha. But the truth is, for you day to day driving, you can use and benefit greatly from an electric vehicle. While for your trips to Houston, Austin, Padre, Mc Allen, and Laredo you can use your gas or hybrid car. Obviously not right now because you already have cars but in the future, of course, along with everyone else. I don't think anyone expects people to just drop the car they already have to pick one of these up, unless they have way too much money anyway, haha.
but yeah, shit yeah, this is the future, they get this baby down cheaper, set up some 'charge stations' across the country and we're GTG. as long as the miles per charge doesn't dwindle the more you use it.
Here's another tidbit I thought of while driving to work.
Assuming I could make it from here to Austin in a single charge, (not sure how headlights, radio, A/C, media devices, etc would affect the overall 300 mile range), and I make it to my friend's place, where would I plug it in? He lives in an apartment complex and only has outdoor parking. Same with my sister in Houston and my Mom in South Texas.
As a matter of fact, where would I charge it at work if I needed to?
If I lived in a downtown area, what about there? There's no garages. Not sure how the city would feel if you plugged into their electricity.
Obviously, this car isn't aimed at me, but I'm taking a practical look at this technology. We're just not set up to be able to plug our cars in at anytime. Will we be when these cars hit the market? Probably not.
What happens when or if the battery goes bad? Does Tesla take them back? Honda replaces them because it benefits their research department.
I'm a lover of new tech. I'm always excited about what we can do to get rid of all the gas-powered vehicles on the road. Before it can really make an impact here in this nation, the range will have to go up and the convenience will have to be there. Though, they made a good step in actually making two cars that look good.
I think there's a euro company that is building a battery rental/distribution system to go with their vehicles and the idea of battery lease/rental is being tossed around here as well. So rather than plugging in for awhile at a roadside station you just swap out the battery for another. You can recharge them at home too. This would depend entirely on market penetration, but I don't see why this model wouldn't take off, as it makes more sense. It's not much different than putting gas in your car, except for being able to do it at home too. =]
I don't see anyone like flaagan or long distance drivers getting behind this tech for awhile as a consumer. But as said, it's not really targeted at them (yet). There are far more people who would benefit from it right now though that don't travel outside the range of their home city/town on a daily basis.
Charge time on these babies with a 220v charger is probably between 3-5 hours. Yes you would have to bring an extension cord, and yes charging at public places is out until electric catches on in a big way. But like anything you would realize and adapt to drive with those limitations, or simply take your hybrid/gas car instead if you fear it could be an issue.
bounchfx: I think it ends up being less then a dollar a gallon equivalent
Also expect this movement and texh to only grow with the full support of the White House behind it since Obama has put up 2.4 billion in support http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-pomona20-2009mar20,0,4688845.story
Even if they where more reasonably priced they can still only bang out 20,000 cars a year when they hit their peak. So someone else is going to need to jump on this.
50k is that with or without the gov subsidy? They originally said it was going to be 30k, so I'm wondering if the gov is kicking in the other 20k, or if they upped their price?
Driving across TX is hardly feasible, its like 3 states wide...
Skank, you're a freak, no one else drives that much except truckers =P You live in in the biggest state that is spread out all over the place. You can't really use TX as a norm for the rest of the US that lives works and plays probably well within a 25-50 mile radius. The distances you're talking about from city to city, are roughly the distance across some states. For me to drive those distances (200mi), I end up in Canada, Idaho or south Oregon almost California.
You could always hang on to your gas powered car and use it on long trips until the infrastructure is in place?
As for recharging, let me clear something else up. When you see these articles and TV shows talk about recharge time, they always state what it takes to recharge to 100% from basically 0%. Most electric vehicles will recharge to 70-80% rather quickly. It's the last 10% or so that become longer to top off. If you find yourself at a friends house, and underestimated your charge, you can plug in for about an hour and have more than enough to get home. The EV1 came with a quick charge system in the trunk that ran on 120V. It could quickly give the car a boost.
The charging stations at home are designed to do a slow charge. It's better for the battery. That's why the charging times are always so long. The idea is, you'll come home from work, plug in and go to bed. Wake up, and your car is charged. Obviously this doesn't work for a late night partier who comes home at 3am to take a power nap before going to work at 7am.
There are SO many myths about electric cars that people erroneously spread and I honestly get tired of hearing them because these people are uneducated on the overall system. Even Top Gear has done multiple reviews (including the Tesla), and there are a lot of incorrect statements they make.
Everything would have to be in check before I jump on the electric bandwagon.
Saturn is putting out their fully electric car soon too, but the range sucks all kinds of balls.
I can't wait for Honda to roll out with either of these or something similar http://automobiles.honda.com/future-cars/
They did... none of the big talkers bought any of them (*glares at California). They couldn't get enough breaks from the government to offset the cost of developing better batteries, so they dropped them. Batteries have advanced GREATLY since then, which is why GM was able to quickly make the Volt available. They just needed that spark to get them to venture into the development again. Many people don't realize, but the Volt is more of an electric car than it is a hybrid. The gas engine is there to help recharge the system if it gets to low. In theory, if I owned one, the gas would probably go bad before I'd use it.
Actually, Top Gear also covered the Honda Clarity after doing the Tesla review. I really like that car, except, just like electric cars, you need the infrastructure to support it. Right now, only California has hydrogen refueling stations
Vig, Tesla always had a 3 car plan. First was the sports and high end model (the Roadster) at 100k+, after that they were doing the luxury sedan (model s) at 60k+, then the low end economy car for everyone at 30k+. It's surprising that the model S will be in the 50k range instead though, my guess is they found ways to save money and passed it onto the consumer. Which is fantastic because it means the economy car could be even better and maybe make it to the market for only 20 or 25k.
Just read the press release and that price is AFTER the 7500 tax cut. They also said that if the infrastructure was put into place and they had 480v charge stations at restaurants and stuff, the car could get a full charge in only 45 mins, which is just about as long as it would take to eat, then you are good for another 300 miles. Seems like tong distance trips aren't completely outta the question.
It was like if I set up a lemonade stand in a basement of a parking garage and instead of lemonade I used turpentine.
"You can have this yummy glass of lementine, and all I want in return is to take one of your kidneys... and smash-it-with-a-brick."
That's essentially what they did with the EV1, they made sure they could round them up after it failed so they could crush them all.
Eclipse ahh sweet, so I wonder if they'll be able to drop the price of the average joe car also.
Skank, OooOo I'm liking Honda's plans, might just have to go that route some day.
It's the same idea, only instead of needing a gas station you just need a 220 plug in. Hell if gas stations added a 220 plug near the air pumps then the network would be done. What would be smarter would be if each parking meter had a 220 plug in. That way when you swipe your card to pay to park it can also charge you for the power.
What i would love is to see some sexy air scoops on the sides to power some wind power generators in the car so when your on the freeway you get back more of the energy used to be going that fast.
Now that is forward thinking. Good one.
That said, I also would not argue too much against GM Execs not wanting to make them (at least at that level), because the profitability was too low at the time (still really isn't high).
TGO: lol, yeah, the wind generators would be a cool idea except the scoops would create wind resistance, which would require more energy to overcome than the generators would make
That was my thought exactly. Only problem I see with the 220 port by the air pump, is I have a feeling that it takes more than 2 minutes to charge your batteries. Pumping gas is at least, very quick.
It wouldn't be a huge airflow drag, most car designs cause more drag issues than the scoops. Just think of the scoops on a Ferrari enzo, but with a low resistance generator inside each air flow scoop.
tumerboy,
Well at 220 it takes 45 from dead to full so i could see 10min getting you a good 70 miles, or 5min 35miles. Yeah its no 20 miles(average gas mileage, at a gallon a min pump) a min for $3.00, but 7 miles a min for $.03 isn't that bad. So for a full fill up it would cost you in the tesla $1.35 and take 45min, or $45 and take 15 min. 3x the wait, for 3% the cost...
Which is why America needs to get off of "instant orgasm" mode. We're going through a cultural revolution here, and with the struggling economy, constant fluctuation in gas prices, and a heightened awareness of our impact on the environment, Tesla may have the perfect market timing to pull this off. If that price tag was a wee bit smaller, I bet they would see a huge launching point for their product.
I think the grill on a typical car does more to add drag then a small well designed scoop. I think the Tesla cars still use some kind of forward intake to cool the batteries, so maybe they could just patch into that. Albeit it would make for a much sexier selling feature to have a functional side or hood scoop...
Notman, I think we've been down that road before... I guess the story is different depending on where you live and who you work for. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. The market wasnt' ready yet and GM probably knew it wasn't going to work and didn't put much effort into it. I remember reading in a GM execs blog that people mostly complained about the initial range 40-60miles and they later where able to push that up higher but never did much to try and make the public aware, they just let it go on being blasted.
I do also remember them teaming up with several oil companies to sue California to remove the ZEV laws, which they eventually won out, but not in the suit. Doesn't really paint a happy "oh well lets try again later" picture...
On top of that, I've also wondered why they wouldn't throw some solar panels into the roof, obviously keeping with the design, and allow it to add juice to the system to help extend mileage.
Electric vehicles are the whole reason I got into electronics, and I was greatly disappointed when the Big 3 shut down all development before I even completed my degree. I was very negative about them doing it at the time too, but after having the opportunity to work for GM, and working in the auto industry for about 12 years now, I now understand a bit more of there side of the story. I've always said to friends, that if I were to will the lotto, I'd take specialty courses, so I could learn other trades (like metal work), so I could make an electric car as a hobby
becomes this:
I don't think I'll be trading in any time soon. Are they going to pipe in fake engine sounds over the stereo so it doesn't sound like I'm driving the worlds largest RC car?
http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/GREENNEWS/volvo-C30-plug-in-hybrid.htm
[ame]
What's this talk of dynamo's and wind scoops recharging the batteries, hmmm?
ahaha, you know, you may have a great business idea. One way to make an assload of cash is to make a silly accessory for a car. Why not make a device to make a V8 sound as you accelerate?
That does remind me of one of the other myths that get thrown around a lot (not that you meant this Sandbag).... I hate when people try to suggest electric cars are slow. As the Tesla has proven, and those in electronics would know, electric motors have massive torque. That means electric cars can launch quickly and go fast. There are videos of the EV1 blowing away the Corvette (if you upload a 'tuned' program into the EV1). Most electric cars are gimped down so they can get their mileage. And since there is no transmission, it's one long acceleration, which feels weird, but awesome
I swear to god these look like fetal automobile abortions, designed by Tonka.
The convertible is somehow worse. Looks like it was stolen from a bumper cars ride at the amusement park.
I wouldn't mind getting a Tesla if the price dropped below $20k.
Just wanted to correct this. The 45 min quick charge was on the 480v outlet. Not that it would change what you are saying, but I wanted to just note.
Also to Sandbag, if you are looking for power, the model S and the roadster would beat the snot outta the mustang. Electric cars have 100% of the torque from the instant you hit the gas petal. If you are talking about a sound.....really? Your entire argument against electric cars is it doesn't go VROOM VROOM!!! haha strange, but like notman pointed out I'm sure someone will make a silly sound add-on that does nothing but drain battery power, hahahaha.
Oh yeah, the the price per trip is according to Tesla, "Model S costs roughly $5 to drive 230 miles". And if Al Gore and his We movement catches hold that price might even drop!