I hope the stock market doesn't react to this as it has after everything else he's done this year. It's almost as though the rich republicans are protesting by pulling out money after anything positive Obama tries
I hope the stock market doesn't react to this as it has after everything else he's done this year. It's almost as though the rich republicans are protesting by pulling out money after anything positive Obama tries
Oh god. It's started already. Obama can do no wrong, continue to blame republicans...carry on sir, carry on...
And as I figured, someone would come along and think that. My point was that many republicans don't want Obama in there, and the wealthy are the ones who have money to pull (and take down the market). Does that have anything to do with 'Obama can do no wrong'? The market crapping out isn't Obama's fault, since it's been happening before he was elected. He just hasn't been successful and restoring confidence yet.
Honestly, I think the real problem so far is everyone stalling and fucking around with this stimulus package.
Good speech. Well spoken. Active audience (except for the ones on camera). Let's see where this goes. Honestly, I feel confidence and a sense of humor is helpful to make things right.
As much as I dislike his Ideas, he certainly means well, and he can speak too.
So far though, I don't like the turn he is taking. The stimulus Bill is a load of you-know-what, because we tried something like it just before the great depression and it actually caused the depression itself. so why should it work now?
The stimulus Bill is a load of you-know-what, because we tried something like it just before the great depression and it actually caused the depression itself. so why should it work now?
the stuff they write on the back of cornflake boxes these days...
heres the top 5 reasons for the great depression (reason 2 is exactly what the stimulus package is trying to avoid):
1. Stock Market Crash of 1929
Many believe erroneously that the stock market crash that occurred on Black Tuesday, October 29, 1929 is one and the same with the Great Depression. In fact, it was one of the major causes that led to the Great Depression. Two months after the original crash in October, stockholders had lost more than $40 billion dollars. Even though the stock market began to regain some of its losses, by the end of 1930, it just was not enough and America truly entered what is called the Great Depression.
2. Bank Failures
Throughout the 1930s over 9,000 banks failed. Bank deposits were uninsured and thus as banks failed people simply lost their savings. Surviving banks, unsure of the economic situation and concerned for their own survival, stopped being as willing to create new loans. This exacerbated the situation leading to less and less expenditures.
3. Reduction in Purchasing Across the Board
With the stock market crash and the fears of further economic woes, individuals from all classes stopped purchasing items. This then led to a reduction in the number of items produced and thus a reduction in the workforce. As people lost their jobs, they were unable to keep up with paying for items they had bought through installment plans and their items were repossessed. More and more inventory began to accumulate. The unemployment rate rose above 25% which meant, of course, even less spending to help alleviate the economic situation.
4. American Economic Policy with Europe
As businesses began failing, the government created the Hawley-Smoot Tariff in 1930 to help protect American companies. This charged a high tax for imports thereby leading to less trade between America and foreign countries along with some economic retaliation.
5. Drought Conditions
While not a direct cause of the Great Depression, the drought that occurred in the Mississippi Valley in 1930 was of such proportions that many could not even pay their taxes or other debts and had to sell their farms for no profit to themselves. This was the topic of John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath.
The market crapping out isn't Obama's fault, since it's been happening before he was elected.
Obama contributed to the largest spending package last year (along with McCain and most clueless morons) by voting for the TARP. In one shot they spent more money than the Iraq war & Afghanistan combined.
He's contributing to what should've been a 1-2 year deflationary recession into something that will unfold into a decade long inflationary depression.
lol...the guy has been in office for a couple of months...if you want someone to blame...look back at the last 8 years
and the market was crapping out before the TARP thing..TARP was in reaction to the banks pretty much becoming insolvent.
All the stimpak does is by us time...and if it doesnt work...hyper inflation will be the last thing we'll have to worry about.
Obama is doing fine
I'll preface by stating Bush is a moron and I can recognize a neocon when I see one. And I do also find it funny that Republicans suddenly have a backbone in standing up to all this spending...where were they for the last 8 years?
And if a gun was pointed to my head and I had to choose...I would, begrudgingly mind you, choose Obama over McCain.
But you forget Obama has had a seat of influence since 2004. He contributed with his votes to the cheap credit that was allowed to flow thru our system. OVER-regulation, not deregulation is what caused this mess. Regulation that forced banks to lend to people to get a home that couldn't afford one and shouldn't have been able to buy one in the first place.
Really this system of cheap credit started during the Clinton era. And we didn't take our medicine when the dot com bubble burst. We just decided to get involved with a new fraudulent bubble instead.
I also find it funny how we "just might" be able to cut the national budget deficit in half. There shouldn't be a yearly budget deficit in the first place. Goverment needs to reduce its' spending to nil. Government produces nothing. People do.
If you want a budget surplus, you stop policing the world and save 1 trillion per year instead of having troops all over the globe. Not sending an additional 17,000 troops to Afghanistan.
Obama contributed to the largest spending package last year (along with McCain and most clueless morons) by voting for the TARP. In one shot they spent more money than the Iraq war & Afghanistan combined.
First, I'll agree that the TARP package should never have happened. At least not at the size that it was. But, it wasn't even distrubuted. The money was approved, then it sat there. How is it suppose to do any good if the banks don't get the money, or if they don't lend it out? The problem is, that money didn't get regulated like they are with the Auto industry. The whole system is broken... it's not Obama alone that did any of that. But I guess we should blame it all on him since his vote was included
If you want a budget surplus, you stop policing the world and save 1 trillion per year instead of having troops all over the globe. Not sending an additional 17,000 troops to Afghanistan.
Obama has already stated the withdrawal dates and I believe he'll stick to them (if not earlier). It has been stated many times, and I agree, that you can't just pull out. Beyond that, I agree, and have stated it for years, that we shouldn't be spread all over the world. I know our military likes that because it strengthens our military, but it's a high cost to maintain these bases.
That's impossible. I love it when people make statements like this. Fine, no money for the government. We'll shut down all government services then. No military, no NASA, no assistance for ANYONE, no police, etc.... That would be a great!
Back on topic, I thought the speech was good and I hope it inspires people to get things done. The one thing I hate seeing are these two faced crooks in congress who applaud these ideas, then go right back to working in the best interest of the biggest pocketbook. It seemed to me like the whole room was applauding just about every statement, but that may also be due to the democratic majority
First, I'll agree that the TARP package should never have happened. At least not at the size that it was. But, it wasn't even distrubuted. The money was approved, then it sat there. How is it suppose to do any good if the banks don't get the money, or if they don't lend it out? The problem is, that money didn't get regulated like they are with the Auto industry. The whole system is broken... it's not Obama alone that did any of that. But I guess we should blame it all on him since his vote was included
Government shouldn't have given the banks any money anyway and the banks lending out money is how we got in this mess to begin with. You want more lending? To who? More irresponsible people? The market is reacting the way it is because we are broke and the price of houses are too high. We've already borrowed everything we could possibly borrow.
When did we go from a society that focused on savings to a society that worries about credit scores and buying crap they don't need with money they don't have? My grandmother had to drop out of school to help out the family in 8th grade but even she understands that credit cards are evil.
The American of the 1950's used to be able to vacation to Europe like a King. Now we can barely afford the family trip to a six flags theme park. And that has entirely to do with how we live beyond our means now. Jobs shipping overseas is part of it but another big part is inflation. We let the federal reserve print as many dollars as congress wants and no one questions it. It's the simple law of supply and demand and it also applies to dollars. Too many cheap dollars in the system create less demand for them...thus prices increase.
The price of gas is going to be coming back with a vengeance believe me. Especially if everyone wants the lending to continue again. That's why I just want to ring someones neck when I hear this.
If you don't understand how we got in this mess then we can't solve the problem. Giving a heroin addict more drugs might make him feel better temporarily, but you'll eventually kill him.
Obama has already stated the withdrawal dates and I believe he'll stick to them (if not earlier). It has been stated many times, and I agree, that you can't just pull out.
Why not? We should pull out in 3 months tops after he took office. The best thing we can do for the Iraqi people is let them have their country back. Not occupy them with a base larger than the Vatican.
Beyond that, I agree, and have stated it for years, that we shouldn't be spread all over the world. I know our military likes that because it strengthens our military, but it's a high cost to maintain these bases.
We can still have strongest military in the world and still mind our own business at the same time. It disgusts me to read how we are shutting down bases over here in the US to build new ones in lands where we don't belong.
I think policing the world weakens our security. Nobody ever attacks Switzerland and they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They mind their own business. I reject the notion that the arab world hates us because we are rich and we are free. We've been pissing around in the middle east since the 50's. The CIA has extensive knowledge on this called "blowback".
We have 50,000 troops sitting in Germany. 40,000 troops sitting in Japan. We have troops in 130 countries in 170 bases around the world. Rome fell the same way. An empire that spread themselves to thin too fast. The US will fall the same way.
Democrats are no strangers to war. It was Johnson who escalated Vietnam troop levels an additional 100,000. You had Clinton going into Kosovo. And most people don't know this but Clinton bombed Iraq more than Bush I did in the first Gulf War. Research the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. This was one of the excuses that gave Dubya the ability to do what he did.
Real change I can believe in would be Obama pulling almost all of the troops around the world back home. If people want to know where their wealth has been disappearing to this is it.
That's impossible. I love it when people make statements like this. Fine, no money for the government. We'll shut down all government services then. No military, no NASA, no assistance for ANYONE, no police, etc.... That would be a great!
Frankly the role of the federal government was just to provide for the military. I have no problem with giving veterans all they need since they served the country...we should do more for them. State governments are supposed to take care of everything else.
We didn't have a federal income tax until 1913. Excise taxes, tariffs, used to pay for everything. And it was great because we did all the producing and the exporting.
Back on topic, I thought the speech was good and I hope it inspires people to get things done. The one thing I hate seeing are these two faced crooks in congress who applaud these ideas, then go right back to working in the best interest of the biggest pocketbook. It seemed to me like the whole room was applauding just about every statement, but that may also be due to the democratic majority
Everyone will soon realize they have been bamboozled. Just like conservatives felt betrayed by Dubya and all his liberal spending...democrats will not get out of Obama what they want and he will be viewed more like 'Uncle Tom' to them.
Many won't wake up to this fact of course. As long as American Idol adds a new judge to their roster, the sheeple will remain stupid and complacent with their lives and the ever consistent diminishing standard of living.
Why not? We should pull out in 3 months tops after he took office. The best thing we can do for the Iraqi people is let them have their country back. Not occupy them with a base larger than the Vatican.
We can still have strongest military in the world and still mind our own business at the same time. It disgusts me to read how we are shutting down bases over here in the US to build new ones in lands where we don't belong.
I think policing the world weakens our security. Nobody ever attacks Switzerland and they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They mind their own business. I reject the notion that the arab world hates us because we are rich and we are free. We've been pissing around in the middle east since the 50's. The CIA has extensive knowledge on this called "blowback".
We have 50,000 troops sitting in Germany. 40,000 troops sitting in Japan. We have troops in 130 countries in 170 bases around the world. Rome fell the same way. An empire that spread themselves to thin too fast. The US will fall the same way.
Hahahaha, ignoring the rest of your ignorant post, I will address this specifically because you are the perfect example of the people who spread misinformation as if they were even slightly educated on the subject.
May I ask what military experience you have? I'm assuming you were in some kind of high commander position to have such amazing military knowledge. As per your vast knowledge on the economy, where did you get your degree in economics? Did you stop at your masters or go for the Ph.D? And as for your vast and detailed knowledge in history (which is definitely 100% accurate), how many years did you study in that field? Just how many degrees do you have?!
Or did you just read a couple of comments on Digg articles and watch a few Ron Paul Youtube videos? I'm curious to know!
Hahahaha, ignoring the rest of your ignorant post, I will address this specifically because you are the perfect example of the people who spread misinformation as if they were even slightly educated on the subject.
May I ask what military experience you have? I'm assuming you were in some kind of high commander position to have such amazing military knowledge. As per your vast knowledge on the economy, where did you get your degree in economics? Did you stop at your masters or go for the Ph.D? And as for your vast and detailed knowledge in history (which is definitely 100% accurate), how many years did you study in that field? Just how many degrees do you have?!
Or did you just read a couple of comments on Digg articles and watch a few Ron Paul Youtube videos? I'm curious to know!
So are you going to counter anything that was said or just attempt to be insulting? You offered no substance to try and prove me wrong on anything. How can someone do that while throwing around the "ignorant" card?
Read up on Michael Scheuer. The former head of the Bin Laden unit at the CIA.
As for needing a masters in economics. No need. It has proven to be worthless if you listen to what Krugman says. A guy with a Ph.D. Having a degree doesn't mean you know the subject. Hell even in this video game industry you should know that.
I follow the Austrian school of economics a lot. Keynesians have proven to be wrong since the are the dominating force that got us into mess. I'll assume you actually care to learn more instead of being a hit & run prick.
EDIT: btw Ron Paul gets his information from Mr. Scheuer. It is nothing he came up with. And I don't agree with Paul on everything. I'm a bit more "protectionist" than he is. I don't agree 100% with free trade. I certainly don't like government managed trade like NAFTA.
Sorry, but I think this pretty much sums up why we're in the shitter.
60% of our money is spent on MILITARY operations. Unbelievable.
7% for Education & social services??
5% to Healthcare??
3% to Science & Tech??
I understand the need to stay on top of defense technology, but what cost? Seriously, chop 30% off defense spending and give it back to the people (we'd STILL be spending more on defense than 95% of the world's nations).
Government shouldn't have given the banks any money anyway and the banks lending out money is how we got in this mess to begin with. You want more lending? To who? More irresponsible people? The market is reacting the way it is because we are broke and the price of houses are too high. We've already borrowed everything we could possibly borrow.
... you want the banks to fail? Does anyone even need to state why that cannot be allowed to happen?
When did we go from a society that focused on savings to a society that worries about credit scores and buying crap they don't need with money they don't have? My grandmother had to drop out of school to help out the family in 8th grade but even she understands that credit cards are evil.
Come on, the same exact thing happened after world war 1. America goes in cycles with these things, that's just how economics is. You'll get a more conservative country once we pull ourselves out of this shit-heap, that's for sure.
The American of the 1950's used to be able to vacation to Europe like a King. Now we can barely afford the family trip to a six flags theme park. And that has entirely to do with how we live beyond our means now. Jobs shipping overseas is part of it but another big part is inflation. We let the federal reserve print as many dollars as congress wants and no one questions it. It's the simple law of supply and demand and it also applies to dollars. Too many cheap dollars in the system create less demand for them...thus prices increase.
The job of the federal reserve is to control the cash flow to try to keep things on an even keel. They don't just print money and hand it out, it isn't that simple. They buy and sell securities to reduce or increase the amount of money in circulation. As for the average American visiting Europe like a king, I'm assuming that either postwar Europe had rock-bottom vacation prices or that's a load of crap.
The price of gas is going to be coming back with a vengeance believe me. Especially if everyone wants the lending to continue again. That's why I just want to ring someones neck when I hear this.
Sure. And then it'll go down again. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
If you don't understand how we got in this mess then we can't solve the problem. Giving a heroin addict more drugs might make him feel better temporarily, but you'll eventually kill him.
Taking away his drugs suddenly may also kill him. I love when people use metaphors that backfire.
Why not? We should pull out in 3 months tops after he took office. The best thing we can do for the Iraqi people is let them have their country back. Not occupy them with a base larger than the Vatican.
We can still have strongest military in the world and still mind our own business at the same time. It disgusts me to read how we are shutting down bases over here in the US to build new ones in lands where we don't belong.
I agree with the bases point. However, do we really need to have the strongest military in the world? Why can't we be happy with just a very strong military? 60% of the national budget going to an apparatus that is doing little more than babysitting other countries is fucking insane.
I think policing the world weakens our security. Nobody ever attacks Switzerland and they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They mind their own business. I reject the notion that the arab world hates us because we are rich and we are free. We've been pissing around in the middle east since the 50's. The CIA has extensive knowledge on this called "blowback".
We have 50,000 troops sitting in Germany. 40,000 troops sitting in Japan. We have troops in 130 countries in 170 bases around the world. Rome fell the same way. An empire that spread themselves to thin too fast. The US will fall the same way.
I agree entirely. Though I doubt that it's the occasional awkward third-world conflict that will bring us down, I do think we should take more care to avoid such things. It's done us no good.
Frankly the role of the federal government was just to provide for the military. I have no problem with giving veterans all they need since they served the country...we should do more for them. State governments are supposed to take care of everything else.
No. We can't party like it's 1776. Times and priorities change, as did the government to reflect such shifts, as we shall see in:
We didn't have a federal income tax until 1913. Excise taxes, tariffs, used to pay for everything. And it was great because we did all the producing and the exporting.
Do you realize that the income tax was pushed through by various progressives - the guys who created the FDA (the reason you have not yet died of tuberculosis), the guys who established national parks and wildlife conservations, the guys who ended child labor, and the guys who kept us out of WW1 for years? The government does more than kill people and blow shit up, foreign and domestic. But good things don't just materialize out of nothing.
Everyone will soon realize they have been bamboozled. Just like conservatives felt betrayed by Dubya and all his liberal spending...democrats will not get out of Obama what they want and he will be viewed more like 'Uncle Tom' to them.
... wow. No, I don't think people are ever going to accuse him of being subservient to the white man, even if he is unpopular.
Many won't wake up to this fact of course. As long as American Idol adds a new judge to their roster, the sheeple will remain stupid and complacent with their lives and the ever consistent diminishing standard of living.
THE GOVERNMENT DID 9/11! KENNEDY WAS AN INSIDE JOB! WE NEVER WENT TO THE MOON! THE ROCKEFELLERS RUN THE FEDERAL RESERVE! WAKE UP SHEEPLE
... you want the banks to fail? Does anyone even need to state why that cannot be allowed to happen?
I am pretty sure he wasn't saying the banks should fail, just the ones that don't know how to properly operate should. MANY banks have been doing just fine, being smart, and handling money like they should. They get nothing. The ones that have been stupid and throwing money around like it was candy get free money and a pass to keep going. If the banks crashed other, more responsible banks, would buy up the loans, and new, responsible banks would rise from the ashes. I think that is kinda what he was getting at, not "NO BANKS EVAR!"
Government shouldn't have given the banks any money anyway and the banks lending out money is how we got in this mess to begin with. You want more lending? To who? More irresponsible people? The market is reacting the way it is because we are broke and the price of houses are too high. We've already borrowed everything we could possibly borrow.
The bank should have not given these banks the money with no conditions attached,i think the goverment should have nationalized these big banks,fire all of their managment and throughly examine the books to see what assets and debts these banks have and then infused the right amount of capital into the bank. The bank would be run under strict supervision until it reachs a healthy status and when it does sell all the stocks back to the public to try to regain back some of the taxpayer money los
When did we go from a society that focused on savings to a society that worries about credit scores and buying crap they don't need with money they don't have? My grandmother had to drop out of school to help out the family in 8th grade but even she understands that credit cards are evil..
That would be from the Presidency of Richard Nixon,that is when for the first time the U.S economy went from black,meaning it was exporting more than importing and went into the red. In that period is when cheap foreign goods began to flow into the U.S and the buy now and pay later philosphy of consumerisim took hold. When Carter became President was around the time of the Oil crisis and he had the foresight to tell Americans to live within their means and rely less on foreign oil in his Famous Malaise speech. But Americans did not want to hear that and when Reagan ran against him he told Americans the opposite. That we have years and years of prosperity ,that we can buy now and pay later became the mantra and that ushered the era of the excesses of the 80's. Because of his Malaise speech,which seems like it makes alot of sense today,carter lost the election and one of the first things Reagan did was take down the solar panels in the white house.[/quote]
The American of the 1950's used to be able to vacation to Europe like a King. Now we can barely afford the family trip to a six flags theme park. And that has entirely to do with how we live beyond our means now. Jobs shipping overseas is part of it but another big part is inflation. We let the federal reserve print as many dollars as congress wants and no one questions it. It's the simple law of supply and demand and it also applies to dollars. Too many cheap dollars in the system create less demand for them...thus prices increase.
Well thats in Large part because America was the only unscathed superpower in the world after world war 2and there was a need to rebuild all that was destroyed at the time. We had the industrial might at the time to supply all of Europe with the equipment and materials to rebuild so off course the U.S dollar would have strength in the 50's but eventually it would decline as Europe rebuilt itself and itheir economies and industries rebounded. As for jobs going overseas i would say both parties are to blame, for example Clinton was the President who signed the horrendous treaty Nafta and Republicans in the south defend foreign auto factories in their states that compete with the U.S auto industry and then try to demonize these Union workers who have decent wages. I say for our current situation both parties are to blame.
The price of gas is going to be coming back with a vengeance believe me. Especially if everyone wants the lending to continue again. That's why I just want to ring someones neck when I hear this.
Yes it will go up more and more over time,but our consumption culture cannot be purely put at the feet of politicians,Americans need a massive change of attitudes if we intend to free ourselves of foreign oil and useless creature comforts which we do not need. Alot of Americans are so enthralled by our consumeristic culture that they are willing to vote in any extreme politician who will do what is needed to maintain this. Even if it means empire and war. Until Americans change their attitudes and their priorities we will get more of the same. There is not a problem with lending mind you,the problem is with irresponsible lending. Strong regulation is needed in our financial insitutions to prevent these sort of problems. Also going back to attitudes in the U.S Americans need to live within their means and accept the fact that if they can not afford something,they shouldnt go into debt to buy it .Lending is important to our economy but it needs to be done responsibly.
Why not? We should pull out in 3 months tops after he took office. The best thing we can do for the Iraqi people is let them have their country back. Not occupy them with a base larger than the Vatican.
We can still have strongest military in the world and still mind our own business at the same time. It disgusts me to read how we are shutting down bases over here in the US to build new ones in lands where we don't belong.
I think policing the world weakens our security. Nobody ever attacks Switzerland and they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They mind their own business. I reject the notion that the arab world hates us because we are rich and we are free. We've been pissing around in the middle east since the 50's. The CIA has extensive knowledge on this called "blowback".
We have 50,000 troops sitting in Germany. 40,000 troops sitting in Japan. We have troops in 130 countries in 170 bases around the world. Rome fell the same way. An empire that spread themselves to thin too fast. The US will fall the same way.
Democrats are no strangers to war. It was Johnson who escalated Vietnam troop levels an additional 100,000. You had Clinton going into Kosovo. And most people don't know this but Clinton bombed Iraq more than Bush I did in the first Gulf War. Research the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. This was one of the excuses that gave Dubya the ability to do what he did.
Real change I can believe in would be Obama pulling almost all of the troops around the world back home. If people want to know where their wealth has been disappearing to this is it..
Frankly the role of the federal government was just to provide for the military. I have no problem with giving veterans all they need since they served the country...we should do more for them. State governments are supposed to take care of everything else.
I agree,i am not happy with the Presidents timeline for withdrawl as well as leaving a risidual force,i believe the pull out from Iraq needs to be faster. I do not like the fact we have our military all over the world but that also has to do with our consumeristic society. The goverment does not make foreign policy based purely on what they believe,alot of our foreign policy is affected by the publics desire. Americans wasnt inexpensive oil,products and big cars that drive on said oil. To have all of this you have to have a big military to fight and protect these interests. Thats why we have all these bases all over the world to have the global reach to deploy military all over the world to quickly protect our interests.
Another problem is Americans are worship militarisim and its why we can so easily accept 60% of our nations budget being military and accept this notion that we need such a massive military force. There are only two nations that border us and who do you think would win in a war? Canada,mexico or the U.S. The fact of the matter is that our military is here to maintain out empire which feeds into our unsustainable way of life.
Frankly the role of the federal government was just to provide for the military. I have no problem with giving veterans all they need since they served the country...we should do more for them. State governments are supposed to take care of everything else.
We didn't have a federal income tax until 1913. Excise taxes, tariffs, used to pay for everything. And it was great because we did all the producing and the exporting.
That is not true,Lincoln for example used federal money to fund the foundation of many of our educational institutions in the U.S and the Lousisiana Purchase which increased the size of the U.S was made by the goverment. Pick a history book and read it and you will see that the U.S goverment has funded alot of things besides military that has benefitted out society. When it comes to taxes i will pay income tax if it is used for things which are useful like roads and healthcare. I live in a country with high taxes for instance but if i get really sick i wont be bankrupted by the costs and if i lose my job i wont be shit out of luck and ill have a net to recover which i did not have in America. I could work in America sure,but my priorities are more life related instead of stuff related. Ill pay taxes if the taxes are used in a meaningful manner,not military and empire.
Everyone will soon realize they have been bamboozled. Just like conservatives felt betrayed by Dubya and all his liberal spending...democrats will not get out of Obama what they want and he will be viewed more like 'Uncle Tom' to them.
Many won't wake up to this fact of course. As long as American Idol adds a new judge to their roster, the sheeple will remain stupid and complacent with their lives and the ever consistent diminishing standard of living
I sincerely hope not but until Americans chang their attitudes and their priorities to what is really important it will be impossible to dismantle this monster we have created.
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Edit: I don't like my comment.
I'd like to change it to:
[ame]
ahhjeah
B
Oh god. It's started already. Obama can do no wrong, continue to blame republicans...carry on sir, carry on...
Honestly, I think the real problem so far is everyone stalling and fucking around with this stimulus package.
So far though, I don't like the turn he is taking. The stimulus Bill is a load of you-know-what, because we tried something like it just before the great depression and it actually caused the depression itself. so why should it work now?
the stuff they write on the back of cornflake boxes these days...
heres the top 5 reasons for the great depression (reason 2 is exactly what the stimulus package is trying to avoid):
Obama contributed to the largest spending package last year (along with McCain and most clueless morons) by voting for the TARP. In one shot they spent more money than the Iraq war & Afghanistan combined.
He's contributing to what should've been a 1-2 year deflationary recession into something that will unfold into a decade long inflationary depression.
How is spending money we don't have going to help? All this is going to do is ensure we get the hyper-inflation started.
and the market was crapping out before the TARP thing..TARP was in reaction to the banks pretty much becoming insolvent.
All the stimpak does is by us time...and if it doesnt work...hyper inflation will be the last thing we'll have to worry about.
Obama is doing fine
I'll preface by stating Bush is a moron and I can recognize a neocon when I see one. And I do also find it funny that Republicans suddenly have a backbone in standing up to all this spending...where were they for the last 8 years?
And if a gun was pointed to my head and I had to choose...I would, begrudgingly mind you, choose Obama over McCain.
But you forget Obama has had a seat of influence since 2004. He contributed with his votes to the cheap credit that was allowed to flow thru our system. OVER-regulation, not deregulation is what caused this mess. Regulation that forced banks to lend to people to get a home that couldn't afford one and shouldn't have been able to buy one in the first place.
Really this system of cheap credit started during the Clinton era. And we didn't take our medicine when the dot com bubble burst. We just decided to get involved with a new fraudulent bubble instead.
I also find it funny how we "just might" be able to cut the national budget deficit in half. There shouldn't be a yearly budget deficit in the first place. Goverment needs to reduce its' spending to nil. Government produces nothing. People do.
If you want a budget surplus, you stop policing the world and save 1 trillion per year instead of having troops all over the globe. Not sending an additional 17,000 troops to Afghanistan.
That isn't change I can believe in.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#29374420
First, I'll agree that the TARP package should never have happened. At least not at the size that it was. But, it wasn't even distrubuted. The money was approved, then it sat there. How is it suppose to do any good if the banks don't get the money, or if they don't lend it out? The problem is, that money didn't get regulated like they are with the Auto industry. The whole system is broken... it's not Obama alone that did any of that. But I guess we should blame it all on him since his vote was included
Obama has already stated the withdrawal dates and I believe he'll stick to them (if not earlier). It has been stated many times, and I agree, that you can't just pull out. Beyond that, I agree, and have stated it for years, that we shouldn't be spread all over the world. I know our military likes that because it strengthens our military, but it's a high cost to maintain these bases.
That's impossible. I love it when people make statements like this. Fine, no money for the government. We'll shut down all government services then. No military, no NASA, no assistance for ANYONE, no police, etc.... That would be a great!
Back on topic, I thought the speech was good and I hope it inspires people to get things done. The one thing I hate seeing are these two faced crooks in congress who applaud these ideas, then go right back to working in the best interest of the biggest pocketbook. It seemed to me like the whole room was applauding just about every statement, but that may also be due to the democratic majority
Government shouldn't have given the banks any money anyway and the banks lending out money is how we got in this mess to begin with. You want more lending? To who? More irresponsible people? The market is reacting the way it is because we are broke and the price of houses are too high. We've already borrowed everything we could possibly borrow.
When did we go from a society that focused on savings to a society that worries about credit scores and buying crap they don't need with money they don't have? My grandmother had to drop out of school to help out the family in 8th grade but even she understands that credit cards are evil.
The American of the 1950's used to be able to vacation to Europe like a King. Now we can barely afford the family trip to a six flags theme park. And that has entirely to do with how we live beyond our means now. Jobs shipping overseas is part of it but another big part is inflation. We let the federal reserve print as many dollars as congress wants and no one questions it. It's the simple law of supply and demand and it also applies to dollars. Too many cheap dollars in the system create less demand for them...thus prices increase.
The price of gas is going to be coming back with a vengeance believe me. Especially if everyone wants the lending to continue again. That's why I just want to ring someones neck when I hear this.
If you don't understand how we got in this mess then we can't solve the problem. Giving a heroin addict more drugs might make him feel better temporarily, but you'll eventually kill him.
Why not? We should pull out in 3 months tops after he took office. The best thing we can do for the Iraqi people is let them have their country back. Not occupy them with a base larger than the Vatican.
We can still have strongest military in the world and still mind our own business at the same time. It disgusts me to read how we are shutting down bases over here in the US to build new ones in lands where we don't belong.
I think policing the world weakens our security. Nobody ever attacks Switzerland and they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They mind their own business. I reject the notion that the arab world hates us because we are rich and we are free. We've been pissing around in the middle east since the 50's. The CIA has extensive knowledge on this called "blowback".
We have 50,000 troops sitting in Germany. 40,000 troops sitting in Japan. We have troops in 130 countries in 170 bases around the world. Rome fell the same way. An empire that spread themselves to thin too fast. The US will fall the same way.
Democrats are no strangers to war. It was Johnson who escalated Vietnam troop levels an additional 100,000. You had Clinton going into Kosovo. And most people don't know this but Clinton bombed Iraq more than Bush I did in the first Gulf War. Research the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. This was one of the excuses that gave Dubya the ability to do what he did.
Real change I can believe in would be Obama pulling almost all of the troops around the world back home. If people want to know where their wealth has been disappearing to this is it.
Frankly the role of the federal government was just to provide for the military. I have no problem with giving veterans all they need since they served the country...we should do more for them. State governments are supposed to take care of everything else.
We didn't have a federal income tax until 1913. Excise taxes, tariffs, used to pay for everything. And it was great because we did all the producing and the exporting.
Everyone will soon realize they have been bamboozled. Just like conservatives felt betrayed by Dubya and all his liberal spending...democrats will not get out of Obama what they want and he will be viewed more like 'Uncle Tom' to them.
Many won't wake up to this fact of course. As long as American Idol adds a new judge to their roster, the sheeple will remain stupid and complacent with their lives and the ever consistent diminishing standard of living.
Discuss.
Hahahaha, ignoring the rest of your ignorant post, I will address this specifically because you are the perfect example of the people who spread misinformation as if they were even slightly educated on the subject.
May I ask what military experience you have? I'm assuming you were in some kind of high commander position to have such amazing military knowledge. As per your vast knowledge on the economy, where did you get your degree in economics? Did you stop at your masters or go for the Ph.D? And as for your vast and detailed knowledge in history (which is definitely 100% accurate), how many years did you study in that field? Just how many degrees do you have?!
Or did you just read a couple of comments on Digg articles and watch a few Ron Paul Youtube videos? I'm curious to know!
:poly122:
Yup. He turned a 50 Billion dollar surplus into a 500 billion debt...by attacking the wrong middle eastern country. Go republicans!
So are you going to counter anything that was said or just attempt to be insulting? You offered no substance to try and prove me wrong on anything. How can someone do that while throwing around the "ignorant" card?
Read up on Michael Scheuer. The former head of the Bin Laden unit at the CIA.
As for needing a masters in economics. No need. It has proven to be worthless if you listen to what Krugman says. A guy with a Ph.D. Having a degree doesn't mean you know the subject. Hell even in this video game industry you should know that.
I follow the Austrian school of economics a lot. Keynesians have proven to be wrong since the are the dominating force that got us into mess. I'll assume you actually care to learn more instead of being a hit & run prick.
Here are a couple sites you can visit.
http://mises.org/
http://www.cato.org/
EDIT: btw Ron Paul gets his information from Mr. Scheuer. It is nothing he came up with. And I don't agree with Paul on everything. I'm a bit more "protectionist" than he is. I don't agree 100% with free trade. I certainly don't like government managed trade like NAFTA.
Sorry, but I think this pretty much sums up why we're in the shitter.
60% of our money is spent on MILITARY operations. Unbelievable.
7% for Education & social services??
5% to Healthcare??
3% to Science & Tech??
I understand the need to stay on top of defense technology, but what cost? Seriously, chop 30% off defense spending and give it back to the people (we'd STILL be spending more on defense than 95% of the world's nations).
:poly142::poly142::poly142:
Come on, the same exact thing happened after world war 1. America goes in cycles with these things, that's just how economics is. You'll get a more conservative country once we pull ourselves out of this shit-heap, that's for sure.
The job of the federal reserve is to control the cash flow to try to keep things on an even keel. They don't just print money and hand it out, it isn't that simple. They buy and sell securities to reduce or increase the amount of money in circulation. As for the average American visiting Europe like a king, I'm assuming that either postwar Europe had rock-bottom vacation prices or that's a load of crap.
Sure. And then it'll go down again. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Again, the nature of economics.
Taking away his drugs suddenly may also kill him. I love when people use metaphors that backfire.
I agree
I agree with the bases point. However, do we really need to have the strongest military in the world? Why can't we be happy with just a very strong military? 60% of the national budget going to an apparatus that is doing little more than babysitting other countries is fucking insane.
I agree entirely. Though I doubt that it's the occasional awkward third-world conflict that will bring us down, I do think we should take more care to avoid such things. It's done us no good.
No. We can't party like it's 1776. Times and priorities change, as did the government to reflect such shifts, as we shall see in:
Do you realize that the income tax was pushed through by various progressives - the guys who created the FDA (the reason you have not yet died of tuberculosis), the guys who established national parks and wildlife conservations, the guys who ended child labor, and the guys who kept us out of WW1 for years? The government does more than kill people and blow shit up, foreign and domestic. But good things don't just materialize out of nothing.
... wow. No, I don't think people are ever going to accuse him of being subservient to the white man, even if he is unpopular.
THE GOVERNMENT DID 9/11! KENNEDY WAS AN INSIDE JOB! WE NEVER WENT TO THE MOON! THE ROCKEFELLERS RUN THE FEDERAL RESERVE! WAKE UP SHEEPLE
I am pretty sure he wasn't saying the banks should fail, just the ones that don't know how to properly operate should. MANY banks have been doing just fine, being smart, and handling money like they should. They get nothing. The ones that have been stupid and throwing money around like it was candy get free money and a pass to keep going. If the banks crashed other, more responsible banks, would buy up the loans, and new, responsible banks would rise from the ashes. I think that is kinda what he was getting at, not "NO BANKS EVAR!"
The bank should have not given these banks the money with no conditions attached,i think the goverment should have nationalized these big banks,fire all of their managment and throughly examine the books to see what assets and debts these banks have and then infused the right amount of capital into the bank. The bank would be run under strict supervision until it reachs a healthy status and when it does sell all the stocks back to the public to try to regain back some of the taxpayer money los
That would be from the Presidency of Richard Nixon,that is when for the first time the U.S economy went from black,meaning it was exporting more than importing and went into the red. In that period is when cheap foreign goods began to flow into the U.S and the buy now and pay later philosphy of consumerisim took hold. When Carter became President was around the time of the Oil crisis and he had the foresight to tell Americans to live within their means and rely less on foreign oil in his Famous Malaise speech. But Americans did not want to hear that and when Reagan ran against him he told Americans the opposite. That we have years and years of prosperity ,that we can buy now and pay later became the mantra and that ushered the era of the excesses of the 80's. Because of his Malaise speech,which seems like it makes alot of sense today,carter lost the election and one of the first things Reagan did was take down the solar panels in the white house.[/quote]
Well thats in Large part because America was the only unscathed superpower in the world after world war 2and there was a need to rebuild all that was destroyed at the time. We had the industrial might at the time to supply all of Europe with the equipment and materials to rebuild so off course the U.S dollar would have strength in the 50's but eventually it would decline as Europe rebuilt itself and itheir economies and industries rebounded. As for jobs going overseas i would say both parties are to blame, for example Clinton was the President who signed the horrendous treaty Nafta and Republicans in the south defend foreign auto factories in their states that compete with the U.S auto industry and then try to demonize these Union workers who have decent wages. I say for our current situation both parties are to blame.
Yes it will go up more and more over time,but our consumption culture cannot be purely put at the feet of politicians,Americans need a massive change of attitudes if we intend to free ourselves of foreign oil and useless creature comforts which we do not need. Alot of Americans are so enthralled by our consumeristic culture that they are willing to vote in any extreme politician who will do what is needed to maintain this. Even if it means empire and war. Until Americans change their attitudes and their priorities we will get more of the same. There is not a problem with lending mind you,the problem is with irresponsible lending. Strong regulation is needed in our financial insitutions to prevent these sort of problems. Also going back to attitudes in the U.S Americans need to live within their means and accept the fact that if they can not afford something,they shouldnt go into debt to buy it .Lending is important to our economy but it needs to be done responsibly.
I agree,i am not happy with the Presidents timeline for withdrawl as well as leaving a risidual force,i believe the pull out from Iraq needs to be faster. I do not like the fact we have our military all over the world but that also has to do with our consumeristic society. The goverment does not make foreign policy based purely on what they believe,alot of our foreign policy is affected by the publics desire. Americans wasnt inexpensive oil,products and big cars that drive on said oil. To have all of this you have to have a big military to fight and protect these interests. Thats why we have all these bases all over the world to have the global reach to deploy military all over the world to quickly protect our interests.
Another problem is Americans are worship militarisim and its why we can so easily accept 60% of our nations budget being military and accept this notion that we need such a massive military force. There are only two nations that border us and who do you think would win in a war? Canada,mexico or the U.S. The fact of the matter is that our military is here to maintain out empire which feeds into our unsustainable way of life.
That is not true,Lincoln for example used federal money to fund the foundation of many of our educational institutions in the U.S and the Lousisiana Purchase which increased the size of the U.S was made by the goverment. Pick a history book and read it and you will see that the U.S goverment has funded alot of things besides military that has benefitted out society. When it comes to taxes i will pay income tax if it is used for things which are useful like roads and healthcare. I live in a country with high taxes for instance but if i get really sick i wont be bankrupted by the costs and if i lose my job i wont be shit out of luck and ill have a net to recover which i did not have in America. I could work in America sure,but my priorities are more life related instead of stuff related. Ill pay taxes if the taxes are used in a meaningful manner,not military and empire.
I sincerely hope not but until Americans chang their attitudes and their priorities to what is really important it will be impossible to dismantle this monster we have created.