"Note: we are only announcing 3ds Max Design today. Don't read anything into this please! 3ds Max will be officially announced later. There are no new feature differences (beyond what feature differences exist today with 2009)."
In other words, 3dsmax isn't changing at all in the 2010 edition. It's just another rebox. Wtf?
Well if they add what's in 2010 design into 3DSMax I'll be happy. It looks like something akin to polyboost is integrated, real-time AO, super-fast view port speed, etc. How could they not add that into regular Max? Modelers would drool for that kind of thing.
Well if they add what's in 2010 design into 3DSMax I'll be happy. It looks like something akin to polyboost is integrated, real-time AO, super-fast view port speed, etc. How could they not add that into regular Max? Modelers would drool for that kind of thing.
how could they not? Because they are a horrible company of horrible people.
"Note: we are only announcing 3ds Max Design today. Don't read anything into this please! 3ds Max will be officially announced later. There are no new feature differences (beyond what feature differences exist today with 2009)."
In other words, 3dsmax isn't changing at all in the 2010 edition. It's just another rebox. Wtf?
well if the design version is getting all the cool features, why not just get that instead of max? is it really that different? looks like the same shit to me.
I think Design removes a lot of features that the normal max has. I dont remember what. Maybe less animation or less rendering or less random other stuff. cant recall
2009 is a big piece of garbage...it handles polygons better..but other than that its broken...broken in places where it was fine in 8 ..untill devs stop buying the shit...they are still gonna pump out shit
Maybe I'm reading this a different way, but I took that note in imply that normal 3DSMax would have all the new features design has minus the light analysis tool, pretty much the same way 2009 worked.
Maybe they will fix max ability to extrude edges via holding shift. I mean who needs or wants that, right, there is an extrude edge button already. ! Well Max design is 3ds studio viz, that's all. They just changed the name to Viz for marketing and then to 3d Studio Design. So it's 3d studio Max except with limited animation features and probably better rendering options, at lease 3d studio viz had more options than Max.
Maybe they will fix max ability to extrude edges via holding shift. I mean who needs or wants that, right, there is an extrude edge button already. ! Well Max design is 3ds studio viz, that's all. They just changed the name to Viz for marketing and then to 3d Studio Design. So it's 3d studio Max except with limited animation features and probably better rendering options, at lease 3d studio viz had more options than Max.
Design 2009 had no less animation features than Max. Just no SDK
In other words, 3dsmax isn't changing at all in the 2010 edition. It's just another rebox. Wtf?
They mean, the difference between 2010 and 2010 design are the same as the differences between 2009 and 2009 design (I am pretty sure that's what he means)
If this is even half as awesome as it sounds I might finally have a reason to move on from max9.
The beta has a number of good features, but unfortunately, they still seem to have not addressed many user complaints with Max at all- that douchebag Ken Pimental enjoys nothing more than jerking off about how great 3ds max is, has been, and how much better it is getting... then goes on to say how because it is a subscription program, they can't announce what is in development, etc. Ken has been quite clear about how awesome 3ds Max's roadmap is- well, we've been hearing it for a while now and they have not been delivering. Fool me once...
3ds Max development has been the same shit for years now- new features, new bloat, not addressing the core problems for which reason more and more studios are switching away. They keep dangling this carrot and add new features, and you morons continue to salivate- they are giving you features that have been available as third-party plugins for years, except now they integrate them AND KILL THEM OFF. AND DON'T SUPPORT THEM! Applaud for polyboost integration or CAT or a node-based editor now, cry when in 2 years it is full of even more bugs and no one bothers to fix it- and to get any fixes, you need to upgrade to the newest version!. These features have been available for years, and the fact that anyone would want them to be part of 3dsmax shows you guys are woefully ignorant of the history of 3rd-party plugins within Max. There are a couple rare exceptions, but for the most part, 3ds Max is where cool stuff goes to die. But you think it is new because you don't want to open your goddamn eyes and look for it or try it out.
douchebag Ken Pimental enjoys nothing more than jerking off about how great 3ds max is...They keep dangling this carrot and add new features, and you morons continue to salivate...But you think it is new because you don't want to open your goddamn eyes and look for it or try it out.
Geez Rob, calm down. Yes, we know Autodesk is the source of all evil and malice in this world, but outside of winning the lottery about 20x in a row and buying the company theirs not much that can be done. Yea, we can bombard them with requests and petitions to fix their junk, but it doesn't seem like they'll ever listen. And sure, we could all learn Blender/Modo/etc. and try to force them into the parts of our workflow that Autodesk products currently occupy, but studios have pre-established pipelines that aren't going to allow for that.
As for plugins, I've yet to see a good one for sculpting or (any) for painting in max. So I'm open to seeing them take a crack at it atp. In the case of Polyboost I'd gladly take an integrated version sense while as I have a license its not floating, so I have to contact the author every time I want to switch it to a new machine (and it normaly takes at least a week). I'd rather know I have a guaranteed copy on max then have chunks of time when I cant use it cause my license is in limbo, and that goes for any other plugins that don't use floating licenses.
but outside of winning the lottery about 20x in a row and buying the company theirs not much that can be done. Yea, we can bombard them with requests and petitions to fix their junk, but it doesn't seem like they'll ever listen. And sure, we could all learn Blender/Modo/etc. and try to force them into the parts of our workflow that Autodesk products currently occupy, but studios have pre-established pipelines that aren't going to allow for that.
You said there's not much that can be done, then went on to list two very viable things! To the first, you can refuse to upgrade your software and cancel your subscription, and you can tell Autodesk why you are doing it. If you think they are fixing bugs, you can be sure they are reading the emails of paying customers (I don't believe they are doing either, but we have to be consistent here). To the second- embracing new workflows is exactly what you need to do. You don't need to try anything radical- just use the best programs and plugins that are available, be adventurous, and stop making excuses. The exact problem with 3ds Max, and other Autodesk software as well, is that it is stuck in an old development paradigm, which is using one program as the end-all-be-all. If you really think Autodesk is interested in innovating, look at their acquisitions since 2004/2005, I dare you. They take your dollars, buy interesting products, and kill them (cheaper to buy new products and kill them, than develop in-house or maintain and evolve them- this is an economy of disposable goods after all). People will talk about needing to fork over money for 3rd party products- no, Autodesk is gauging you by buying up the market and killing off products (actually you are responsible because you don't use the products until they are on death row).
As for plugins, I've yet to see a good one for sculpting or (any) for painting in max. So I'm open to seeing them take a crack at it atp.
Good, let them break new ground from this. No argument from me. I just wish they'd work more on interaction and interoperability between sculpting apps instead. This is what I mean when I say their fundamental model is broken- they OWN a goddamn sculpting app, how about creating a tight pipeline? Nah, fuck it, we have obj.
In the case of Polyboost I'd gladly take an integrated version sense while as I have a license its not floating, so I have to contact the author every time I want to switch it to a new machine (and it normaly takes at least a week). I'd rather know I have a guaranteed copy on max then have chunks of time when I cant use it cause my license is in limbo, and that goes for any other plugins that don't use floating licenses.
This is exactly the sort of behaviour that is responsible for the shitty situation the 3d market is in. My god, you have to wait one week for a license! How much longer do you think you'll have to wait for new versions now, or hotfixes, or updates? You'll have to wait years and pay thousands of dollars, because AD now has you by the balls and charges you through the nose for their fixes, always available in the next version that of course your studio doesn't want to upgrade to. And all because you didn't want to wait a week for a license upgrade...
Anyway, I said what I wanted to say- I have a depressingly-long essay/report on this entire subject I haven't had the heart to finish and I make my case much more convincingly there.
lol talon, just try using max 2008 for a year in a production pipeline and then switch back to 7, you will probably be kicking yourself at how slow it is and how it's missing a lot of the features you came to rely on. seriously...
I think I'm inclined to agree with rob on the sculpting part of the app, they've got mudbox so why not get tighter integration? I just hope they aren't bolting on a half assed sculpting feature instead which has no use, it would be nice to be able to overlay alphas and that sort of stuff within max instead of having to do the whole export process.
That's actually the doomsday secret. Autodesk will completely overhaul max from the ground up and turn it into the most functional and elegant modelling program ever created. Graphics artists' heads exploding in unison will destroy the earth.
I gotta say though. 2010 is looking fucking sweet. I've had a hate-on for max for a LONG time. It's the only autodesk program I don't own at this point. Might just change that with this release.
I'm looking forward to trying it out. Our of curiousity, Illusion Catalyst was brought up on the Area, and I was wondering if anyone here had any experience with it: http://illusioncatalyst.com/ic_shape_ref.html#Brush
When I get a little free time, I'm gonna give it a go, looks similar to polyboost in some ways.
I hope graphite can dock on the left & right like polyboost. With widescreen monitors, narrowing your viewport in the Y direction doesn't seem to wise.
Also I hope the shift/alt/ctrl controls goes untouched. When the guy was adding swiftloops in the video, he was then going up to hit "set flow". Hopefully that was just for demonstration because I just want to hold shift down...
At any rate, I should be able to customize whatever they break...and I'm sure they will...
Let's face it, 3DS Max development stopped around version 9
Fixed...
Max2008 was too similar to 9 for me. And 2009 was just a cosmetic viewport change which essentially broke it making things too slow for me. 2009 feels like they are forcing me to buy a Quadro...marquee selection is choppy ass.
I'd really like to see them just add custom mouse configurations. Too much focus on keybinds and buttons in max, and the mouse gets very little love as an input device. This is a big reason I why prefer Silo. Most of my modeling workflow is based around custom mouse and modifier key binds. I have very little need for crazy bloated menus/ribbons or clicking buttons when I'm working in Silo. I probably wouldn't even look at another dedicated polygon modeler again if max, maya or xsi offered custom mouse configs.
I hope graphite can dock on the left & right like polyboost. With widescreen monitors, narrowing your viewport in the Y direction doesn't seem to wise.
Also I hope the shift/alt/ctrl controls goes untouched. When the guy was adding swiftloops in the video, he was then going up to hit "set flow". Hopefully that was just for demonstration because I just want to hold shift down...
Is there a graphite demo video posted somewhere? i haven't been able to find one yet.
There have been a lot of things rolled into Max since 8.
- Much improved pelt mapping.
- Improved UV relax.
- Spline UV unwrap.
- ProSound allows up to 100 audio tracks. It is 3D sound, you can place sounds in objects and have it calculate the volume/position in relationship to the camera.
- ProOptimize (was MooTools PolyCruncher).
- Particle Flow got some major additions.
- Handles higher on screen poly counts.
- Improved realtime shader display in viewport.
- Improved realtime shaders.
- Improved realtime lighting/shadow display in viewport.
- Improved photometric lighting.
- Improved MaxScript Editor.
- Biped Extras.
- Quadruped-biped (treat hands like feet).
- FBX support, makes the Max to MotionBuilder/Maya conversion easy.
- GuruWare's OBJ exporter.
Their to-do list is shrinking quite a bit
- Add a keyboard shortcut scheme for Maya users.
- Upgrade/update the UI (here comes ribbon)
- Buy and roll in FumeFX and PuppetShop
- Upgrade cloth and hair/fur
- Switch the Unwrap UVW from modifier to a mode that can be accessed any time independant of the modifier stack (like Maya).
- Clean up and optimize MaxScript as well as upgrade the editor, and the WYSIWYG UI maker.
i'm not quite sure if that was sarcasm or not, i will assume not, so ... ok... thats roughly about 3 years worth of upgrades. I use max for modeling and unwrapping, and there is not a single modeling improvement on that list, a couple of unwrap "improvements" that i don't think were even necessary, the existing tools from 8 always worked just fine. so ultimately upgrading max means less stability and more random features that are of no use to you in any way.
oh dude there's that viewport navigation cube, i simply MUST have that, i just can't get around that 3D viewport without it! and the latest version promisses new icons? Sign me up!
max 8 here as well. whatever considerations i had about upgrading was quickly deterred by the insane truckloads of cash i'd need to spend to upgrade now.
meh, i'm learning C++ anyways, so i'll be making my own tools in a few years time.
until then i'll be digging down into the max SDK documentation, calculus, geometry, and that kinda stuff.
oh as for the "upgrades" most of it is the sort of stuff i'd expect in a patch...
I get what you're saying 75% hasn't changed and 75% is what you use 100% of the time. For the rest of us that use the other 25% its been nice. If you're happy with 8 and it does everything you need it to do, that's great. You might want to compare 8 to 2010 after its been out for a while and see if upgrading is worth it. If its not worth it for you who am I to argue with you whats best for you? But understand that not all of the upgrades have fallen on deaf ears or blind eyes. Some of us do use them every day and are thankful to have them.
Really if all you're using it for is modeling, shit can Max and go with Silo or Modo?
All the things I listed, I use everyday. With each new version my life gets a little bit easier, speedier and I have less hassle to worry about. When I was using 8 I had 5 plug-ins to deal with. That made transferring licenses near impossible. Now that 3 of them have been added in (SoundTrax, PFlow Box3, PolyCruncher) and now PolyBoost is being added to 2010, the last one was made free (PuppetShop), that mess is gone.
As for the new icons, if its anything like the ribbon they put in AutoCAD or what MrBlueSummers was working on, then its a bit more then flashy new icons. It potentially could be a great source of customization. Hopefully they take the time to overhaul the customization of the rest of the UI as well.
As for stablity, its gotten better with each new version. I've gone from crashing every other day at random Max8 to crashing maybe once a month. I'm also pushing the app harder and having it do more things at the same time then it ever had to do in the past. For me each upgrade has been minor and almost not worth it, but when I fire up 8, I'm shocked at whats missing.
well thats my opinion, its not a FACT, doesn't HAVE to be true for you, its just my opinion. i've tried all the new versions and have been met with less stability and changes to features that worked just fine, along with like you said... autodesk basically integrating popular 3rd party plugins... and I understand why, they're a huge company thats dedicated to releasing new versions every year, there's only so much patching/tweaking you can cram in there, which is why i think alot of people in this thread are at least a little bit skeptical about 2010.
as a side note i think its kind of hillarious that max 2010 is getting announced in the second month of 2009.
Replies
In other words, 3dsmax isn't changing at all in the 2010 edition. It's just another rebox. Wtf?
how could they not? Because they are a horrible company of horrible people.
well if the design version is getting all the cool features, why not just get that instead of max? is it really that different? looks like the same shit to me.
God damn you Autodesk!
Maxya?
Maxsiaya
Design 2009 had no less animation features than Max. Just no SDK
If this is even half as awesome as it sounds I might finally have a reason to move on from max9.
The beta has a number of good features, but unfortunately, they still seem to have not addressed many user complaints with Max at all- that douchebag Ken Pimental enjoys nothing more than jerking off about how great 3ds max is, has been, and how much better it is getting... then goes on to say how because it is a subscription program, they can't announce what is in development, etc. Ken has been quite clear about how awesome 3ds Max's roadmap is- well, we've been hearing it for a while now and they have not been delivering. Fool me once...
3ds Max development has been the same shit for years now- new features, new bloat, not addressing the core problems for which reason more and more studios are switching away. They keep dangling this carrot and add new features, and you morons continue to salivate- they are giving you features that have been available as third-party plugins for years, except now they integrate them AND KILL THEM OFF. AND DON'T SUPPORT THEM! Applaud for polyboost integration or CAT or a node-based editor now, cry when in 2 years it is full of even more bugs and no one bothers to fix it- and to get any fixes, you need to upgrade to the newest version!. These features have been available for years, and the fact that anyone would want them to be part of 3dsmax shows you guys are woefully ignorant of the history of 3rd-party plugins within Max. There are a couple rare exceptions, but for the most part, 3ds Max is where cool stuff goes to die. But you think it is new because you don't want to open your goddamn eyes and look for it or try it out.
Geez Rob, calm down. Yes, we know Autodesk is the source of all evil and malice in this world, but outside of winning the lottery about 20x in a row and buying the company theirs not much that can be done. Yea, we can bombard them with requests and petitions to fix their junk, but it doesn't seem like they'll ever listen. And sure, we could all learn Blender/Modo/etc. and try to force them into the parts of our workflow that Autodesk products currently occupy, but studios have pre-established pipelines that aren't going to allow for that.
As for plugins, I've yet to see a good one for sculpting or (any) for painting in max. So I'm open to seeing them take a crack at it atp. In the case of Polyboost I'd gladly take an integrated version sense while as I have a license its not floating, so I have to contact the author every time I want to switch it to a new machine (and it normaly takes at least a week). I'd rather know I have a guaranteed copy on max then have chunks of time when I cant use it cause my license is in limbo, and that goes for any other plugins that don't use floating licenses.
Good, let them break new ground from this. No argument from me. I just wish they'd work more on interaction and interoperability between sculpting apps instead. This is what I mean when I say their fundamental model is broken- they OWN a goddamn sculpting app, how about creating a tight pipeline? Nah, fuck it, we have obj.
This is exactly the sort of behaviour that is responsible for the shitty situation the 3d market is in. My god, you have to wait one week for a license! How much longer do you think you'll have to wait for new versions now, or hotfixes, or updates? You'll have to wait years and pay thousands of dollars, because AD now has you by the balls and charges you through the nose for their fixes, always available in the next version that of course your studio doesn't want to upgrade to. And all because you didn't want to wait a week for a license upgrade...
Anyway, I said what I wanted to say- I have a depressingly-long essay/report on this entire subject I haven't had the heart to finish and I make my case much more convincingly there.
Don't worry, you're safe for now... until 2012!
Sculpting in max...something I bet nobody ever imagined they'd need.
Agreed-- did this a couple years ago
whatever you say Bio-gay
LOL it is funnier in Christian's cockney British accent.
That's actually the doomsday secret. Autodesk will completely overhaul max from the ground up and turn it into the most functional and elegant modelling program ever created. Graphics artists' heads exploding in unison will destroy the earth.
When I get a little free time, I'm gonna give it a go, looks similar to polyboost in some ways.
Also I hope the shift/alt/ctrl controls goes untouched. When the guy was adding swiftloops in the video, he was then going up to hit "set flow". Hopefully that was just for demonstration because I just want to hold shift down...
At any rate, I should be able to customize whatever they break...and I'm sure they will...
Fixed...
Max2008 was too similar to 9 for me. And 2009 was just a cosmetic viewport change which essentially broke it making things too slow for me. 2009 feels like they are forcing me to buy a Quadro...marquee selection is choppy ass.
Is there a graphite demo video posted somewhere? i haven't been able to find one yet.
EDIT: Oops, found it
http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/blogs_shane/blog_detail/100_new_modeling_features/
There have been a lot of things rolled into Max since 8.
- Much improved pelt mapping.
- Improved UV relax.
- Spline UV unwrap.
- ProSound allows up to 100 audio tracks. It is 3D sound, you can place sounds in objects and have it calculate the volume/position in relationship to the camera.
- ProOptimize (was MooTools PolyCruncher).
- Particle Flow got some major additions.
- Handles higher on screen poly counts.
- Improved realtime shader display in viewport.
- Improved realtime shaders.
- Improved realtime lighting/shadow display in viewport.
- Improved photometric lighting.
- Improved MaxScript Editor.
- Biped Extras.
- Quadruped-biped (treat hands like feet).
- FBX support, makes the Max to MotionBuilder/Maya conversion easy.
- GuruWare's OBJ exporter.
Their to-do list is shrinking quite a bit
- Add a keyboard shortcut scheme for Maya users.
- Upgrade/update the UI (here comes ribbon)
- Buy and roll in FumeFX and PuppetShop
- Upgrade cloth and hair/fur
- Switch the Unwrap UVW from modifier to a mode that can be accessed any time independant of the modifier stack (like Maya).
- Clean up and optimize MaxScript as well as upgrade the editor, and the WYSIWYG UI maker.
Is that still on the list with the addition of CAT to all max subscribers?
oh dude there's that viewport navigation cube, i simply MUST have that, i just can't get around that 3D viewport without it! and the latest version promisses new icons? Sign me up!
meh, i'm learning C++ anyways, so i'll be making my own tools in a few years time.
until then i'll be digging down into the max SDK documentation, calculus, geometry, and that kinda stuff.
oh as for the "upgrades" most of it is the sort of stuff i'd expect in a patch...
Really if all you're using it for is modeling, shit can Max and go with Silo or Modo?
All the things I listed, I use everyday. With each new version my life gets a little bit easier, speedier and I have less hassle to worry about. When I was using 8 I had 5 plug-ins to deal with. That made transferring licenses near impossible. Now that 3 of them have been added in (SoundTrax, PFlow Box3, PolyCruncher) and now PolyBoost is being added to 2010, the last one was made free (PuppetShop), that mess is gone.
As for the new icons, if its anything like the ribbon they put in AutoCAD or what MrBlueSummers was working on, then its a bit more then flashy new icons. It potentially could be a great source of customization. Hopefully they take the time to overhaul the customization of the rest of the UI as well.
As for stablity, its gotten better with each new version. I've gone from crashing every other day at random Max8 to crashing maybe once a month. I'm also pushing the app harder and having it do more things at the same time then it ever had to do in the past. For me each upgrade has been minor and almost not worth it, but when I fire up 8, I'm shocked at whats missing.
as a side note i think its kind of hillarious that max 2010 is getting announced in the second month of 2009.
I click on a face, and the face behind it is selected instead. This is fucktarded.