The ergonomics thread
grand marshal polycounter
Hey all
I thought it would be nice to have a thread here where we could compile useful links related to ergonomics, workstation posture, and human interface devices.
Simply put : the anti-RSI thread!
New gadgets or ideas would still get their own threads (like the Arsh new setup post, or discussions about new mice and whatnot) but later on if the original posts bring up interesting points we could keep a link in here. I find myself searching for old related topics quite often and it's always a bit hard to remember all the names to search for ('Evoluent', 'SpaceNavigator' aso). And obviously straight links to manufacturers or Amazon sales would be at home here aswell.
Another reason would be to give quick reviews of such products. I find them often rated from a data entry/word processing point of view on mainstream review sites - and such things rarely apply to digital art (a vertical mouse might turn vertex editing into a nightmare because of the lack of precision). Hence we could share art-oriented experiences with such devices in this thread.
Also, we could discuss hacked DIY solutions here.
What do you think?
I think I mentionned that to Gauss in the past, and thought it's now a good time to start this up.
(AdamBee, feel free to format the text to make it sexier :P)
Some links :
HP touchscreen - could be nice as a secondary screen to explore references on with piclens, launch apps with a single finger press, select brushes in PS, launch macros ...
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-3181050-3181048-3182543.html
Spacenavigator - interesting concept, very poor support (only had satisfactory results with 3DSMax so far)
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceNavigator-3D-Navigation-3DX-700029/dp/B000LB41BM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230301885&sr=1-1[/ame]
HP tx2x - tablet PCs with touchscreen capability
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mobility&series_name=tx2z_series
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mobility&series_name=tx2500z_series
Evoluent vertical mouse - good concept, yet it lacks a good way to hold the body of the mouse firmly (buttons get clicked if held steadily, forcing the user to hold it awkwardly with the palm muscles...)
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Evoluent-VM3R2-RSB-Vertical-Mouse-3/dp/B000O3OEGE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230302263&sr=1-1[/ame]
Racing seat - could very well be used for a comfy workstation setup? See Jox's post below.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Playseats-Evolution-Gaming-Black-Silver/dp/B000K9Q5UK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230302460&sr=1-10[/ame]
Arsh's drafting table-mounted Cintiq
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=58579
I thought it would be nice to have a thread here where we could compile useful links related to ergonomics, workstation posture, and human interface devices.
Simply put : the anti-RSI thread!
New gadgets or ideas would still get their own threads (like the Arsh new setup post, or discussions about new mice and whatnot) but later on if the original posts bring up interesting points we could keep a link in here. I find myself searching for old related topics quite often and it's always a bit hard to remember all the names to search for ('Evoluent', 'SpaceNavigator' aso). And obviously straight links to manufacturers or Amazon sales would be at home here aswell.
Another reason would be to give quick reviews of such products. I find them often rated from a data entry/word processing point of view on mainstream review sites - and such things rarely apply to digital art (a vertical mouse might turn vertex editing into a nightmare because of the lack of precision). Hence we could share art-oriented experiences with such devices in this thread.
Also, we could discuss hacked DIY solutions here.
What do you think?
I think I mentionned that to Gauss in the past, and thought it's now a good time to start this up.
(AdamBee, feel free to format the text to make it sexier :P)
Some links :
HP touchscreen - could be nice as a secondary screen to explore references on with piclens, launch apps with a single finger press, select brushes in PS, launch macros ...
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-3181050-3181048-3182543.html
Spacenavigator - interesting concept, very poor support (only had satisfactory results with 3DSMax so far)
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceNavigator-3D-Navigation-3DX-700029/dp/B000LB41BM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230301885&sr=1-1[/ame]
HP tx2x - tablet PCs with touchscreen capability
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mobility&series_name=tx2z_series
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mobility&series_name=tx2500z_series
Evoluent vertical mouse - good concept, yet it lacks a good way to hold the body of the mouse firmly (buttons get clicked if held steadily, forcing the user to hold it awkwardly with the palm muscles...)
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Evoluent-VM3R2-RSB-Vertical-Mouse-3/dp/B000O3OEGE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230302263&sr=1-1[/ame]
Racing seat - could very well be used for a comfy workstation setup? See Jox's post below.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Playseats-Evolution-Gaming-Black-Silver/dp/B000K9Q5UK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230302460&sr=1-10[/ame]
Arsh's drafting table-mounted Cintiq
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=58579
Replies
Something I really liked about Arsh's setup is that it removed a lot of the back-related ergonomic problems by just standing up (brilliant in it's simplicity).
But for a sit down solution, my friend made something similar to these that he RAVES about:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4797/
http://thegizmospot.com/zero-gee-ergonomic-workstation/
I went to a soft tissue expert that shredded the scar tissue in my arms with deep painful massages. After 10-12 sessions my arms felt worlds better. I sleep every night now with a wrist guard, and only use the tablet for anything longer than checking my email. I also use an Evoluent keyboard, I bought the mouse but my wife hated using it so I just opted to go back to the normal one.
When i get around to it I'll post some of the stretches my doctor told me to do to. They helped a ton!
B
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/5123&cl=us,en
Just tried this table at an ergonomics store. It raises up and down with hydraulics - similiar to the discontinued Ikea table.
It would be impossible to punch a cintiq hole in it since there is a (nice) tilt system behind the board, but one could very well add another 'layer' of board/box on top, matching the depth of the tablet (kindof like the oldschool neon lightboxes mounted on drafting tables)
http://www.moll-system.com/moll/menu.do?mid=scienceFrames
So, all you sitters out there. Could you please recommend me a reasonably priced comfy sitting machine? Or a nice chair.
It's the spine alignment/cobra if you want to look it up.
If you like being able to lean backwards like in a "grampa chair" this is the chair for you.
Not much else to add to the post but will look forward to more alternatives then the usual work station.
The articulated armrest (70$) seems like a good investment as i find myself using whatever freaking chair i can find at my desk. I cant get expensive chair gear so ... hmm does anybody use these? Id like to hear a review...The good thing i noticed is that it moves UP and DOWN, as well as side to side, so if your chair height is not perfectly adjustable, like my wicker antique, then this helps close the height gap I guess. Also can be used with or without mousepad platform, so I imagine this might come in useful for pen users as well?
Articulated Armrest!
It looks like these Ero-guys also have split keyboards for that Arsh drafting cintiq table as well..
Im into this too!
this site is good actually
EDIT: The kids ergo gear looks really great too actually! Go ergoguys go!
This thread is great i really am planning on a long game-art career!
(note i sit pretty close to the table compared to most people i guess)
This would kill me. talk about hunch-back! :P I pretty much have to have my back straight. Are you hunched over the table? You bring up an interesting idea in my head though.
Has anyone seen a table with a U shape carved into it so that the table extends past the left and right side of the user? thats the only way i can imagine my arm up to my elbow resting on the table.
They are L desks, with the deep part of the corner on the user side carved in as an arc (not just a rounded corner. The arc is 'inside' the L)
It does help the elbow position, but I feel like the arc could be even deeper for more benefits.
I think the ideal IDEAL solution would a narrow U desk with the short side of the U just wide enough to fit in. Kindof like a control seat. It should be easy to put together with cheap Ikea table leftovers!
You could even go lighter, and build the equivalent of that armrest you linked to, for a fraction of the price. Basically 2 table extensiona that would clamp on the table wherever you want them to (even easier if you're allowed to drill your tabletop...)
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/277968/Realspace-PRO-Maverick-Multifunction-High-Back/
I used to get super sore sitting at work all day in other chairs but since I've gotten this thing 2 years ago I haven't had a back or wrist problem since. The adjustable arms go plenty high enough to be flesh with my desk/mouse so I couldn't imagine working long in a chair that isn't just like it.
hahahaha, yeah, right, try and stop me.
http://www.rsiguard.com/
Complete with embarrassing popup exercises videos!
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24906913-5017672,00.html
I am going to try one of those new apple keyboards ..
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MB110LL-A-Keyboard-Kit/dp/B000V07N9U/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1235424222&sr=8-1[/ame]
I anticipate it being a lot more comfortable since it takes up minimal space and is designed for fast snappy strokes..
Wesley didn't care for this setup much...but Prince Humperdinck swears by it.
I'll second Gwot's mention of the apple keyboards. Only drawback is if you have a fatty jump drive. The keyboard is so low to the desk that you'll want a slim drive if you want to use it with integrated USB ports. Aside from that....(and that's stupid picky)....the keyboards are fantastic.
For me its realy a combination of alot of factors.
Biggest problem for me is my bloodflow. Making sure this stays optimal is key.
Im wearing thermo gloves right now, they are very thin, and i cut off the fingertops, so you dont actualy notice them, but they realy keep my hands warm, wich helps alot!
Im also wearing a wristguard, its a thick elasticbandage type, where you put your thumb trough it and wrap it around the wrist the way you want it. This keeps my wrist from bending too much and slowing down the bloodflow, but also from cramping up from weird poses.
Im wearing a hoody to keep my neck warm
I never work in a tshirt anymore, this cools down my arms like frosty the snowman.
When sleeping i try to keep a good pose. If my neck is bend too much, i can really feel it in the morning. When i wake up, i feel like an old granny, but when i get going for 20 min, it all goes away.
I ride my bicycle for an hour a day. Being bend over the handle bar does tense my shoulders and neck, so thats a downside, but the best part is the tempo i ride with. Making sure the bloodflow is stimulated. Its like doing a warm up, and cooling down. You really flush your system and prevent the rustyness.
Some vitemine suplements are also great, it really gives me an extra boost. So keeping an eye on what you eat is also important. Doesnt mean vegies everyday, but no yunkfood for 6 of the 7 days a week.
I got quite some more info if wanted, It took me a long time to figure out what works best for me.
I also got one of these since my desk at home is a little bit higher than most and I like to keep my elbows resting comfortably on the desk rather than the chair .. With this little puppy I can sit higher above my desk and still rest my feet on something sturdy...
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Fellowes-48121-Standard-Footrest-Adjustable/dp/B000BGLZTI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1235481382&sr=8-2[/ame]
I have a flatbar, far infront of me, so im always leaning on my arms*
http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=570-10373
Might tempt me into a punt on my first mouse that isn't Microsoft-built.
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A0480033
The middle mouse button is pretty akward to use (but it's not that bad as I just bound middle click to the thumb-button - you can get a third party SetPoint profile that lets you bind any button to anything you like).
And scroll wheels shouldn't be that fun
I ordered the MX 620 yesterday, and those Dell bastards had it at my door this afternoon. It's a solid mouse and I love the feel of it after the hour or so of use I dared to give it - Very comfortable and seemed to fit in my hand very well - before packing it back up and requesting for a recall :P
Ordered the MX Rev and am actually excited of its arrival.
the articulated lcd arms are magic, i dont know why i havent considered them sooner
Havent used it in a while though, since i got a tablet i dont want to use a mouse anymore.
The middle mouse of the mx is extreemly heavy to use for 3d though, pressing it is not fun.
So yea, change the settings and put it on the side on the mouse