using initiative, or is it?
polycounter lvl 18
Hey guys,
Apologies first off cos ive had afew pints with my dad and his mates as I always do on a tuesday..,,so ya know bear with me
.
Just to give some relevent background info here my current situation is as follows, i got made redundant suddenly from my previous company who I worked with for about 2.5 years, this was largily doing 3d work and is my only real 3d experience but not in videogames.
Im now working a temporary 0 hour contract for a wine shop....but have already been told that there proberly won't be any hours for me in January, since the company want to close one of the shops I currently work in and since im 0 hour im the first/most likely to bite the bullet.
As a result im currently spending as much time as I can building a folio, but this is taking time, im trying to learn Z brush a benificial program to any modern videogame artist and get back into the groove of normal maps and the general videogame workflow. Ive given myself till January (or the aproximate time im gonna loose my wine job) as my deadline for the folio and I belive im on target for hitting this and am growing in confidence in both my artwork and overall abilities.
Im also on the mailing list for a couple of agencies linked to british based videogames companies and am therefore fully aware vacancies are avalible within the industry.
now the but....
My dads mate who is in his 50s is an exstrodinarily talented draftsman for an engineering company and he hit me tonight with the following questions,which I couldn't really give him a straight answer to. The convosation went soemthing like this:-
"so tell me John, Why you still working up at the wine shop?"
"Because im building a decent portfolio which I can use to try and break into the videogames industry and this takes time"
"and is there any jobs avalible in what your aiming for?"
"Yes becuase Im on the mailing list of various agencies so i know there is x amount of jobs going"
"So why the hell arn't you applying to them?"
"becuase I don't have a folio, or anywork which is relevent to what they want to see (i.e videogame assets), but im shooting for january to have a decent portfolio complete and then i can start applying".
"You said that 5 weeks ago and look your working minimum wages down a freaking wine shop,why not use your initiative and apply for those jobs anyway, just say 'look I don't have a full folio this is what I DO have to Show'...... this shows initative which employers like then they will proberly test you in some way,interview you and if they hire you they still have the probationary period to decide if your shit or not. Apply to the jobs then it would give you a week to get your folio in order before the interview . I would start applying to x number of jobs tomorrow"
Now half of me kinda thinks he's right and makes alot of sense...especially since come January I might not have any income atool and if I do it will be pretty limited, yet I could spend an unknown number of weeks with a decent portfolio but it could still be an unknown number of weeks before I acturally (hopefully) become employed.
The other half of me has the stigma of looking down the jobs avalible and not meeting afew of the requirments to do the job,due to lack of exsperience, or maybe even skill, plus I have the confidence block that im not particularly sure of my own skill despite the 2.5 years experience I have in a software development house I still feel very much like im just out of school.
Not to mention this idea that you MUST have a fully avalible portfolio ready,with relevent assets to show.
The fear factor that if I went ahead and just applyed to places the damage I could be doing to myself in the eys of that particular studio,since I don't really have a decent portfolio,no website currently just a random bunch of images and a CV....would they instantly pass over me cos I don't have a pretty presentation? etc etc are all reasons why half of me says 'wait' and let my artwork speak for itself come january.
So now I turn to you guys, whats your opinion on this situation, both from your personal point of view/experience and your experience of how studios may look on an applicant like myself if I was to apply to your studio tomorrow with just a CV and afew attached images of assets that you may not want to see but still show skill.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Regards,
John
Apologies first off cos ive had afew pints with my dad and his mates as I always do on a tuesday..,,so ya know bear with me
.Just to give some relevent background info here my current situation is as follows, i got made redundant suddenly from my previous company who I worked with for about 2.5 years, this was largily doing 3d work and is my only real 3d experience but not in videogames.
Im now working a temporary 0 hour contract for a wine shop....but have already been told that there proberly won't be any hours for me in January, since the company want to close one of the shops I currently work in and since im 0 hour im the first/most likely to bite the bullet.
As a result im currently spending as much time as I can building a folio, but this is taking time, im trying to learn Z brush a benificial program to any modern videogame artist and get back into the groove of normal maps and the general videogame workflow. Ive given myself till January (or the aproximate time im gonna loose my wine job) as my deadline for the folio and I belive im on target for hitting this and am growing in confidence in both my artwork and overall abilities.
Im also on the mailing list for a couple of agencies linked to british based videogames companies and am therefore fully aware vacancies are avalible within the industry.
now the but....
My dads mate who is in his 50s is an exstrodinarily talented draftsman for an engineering company and he hit me tonight with the following questions,which I couldn't really give him a straight answer to. The convosation went soemthing like this:-
"so tell me John, Why you still working up at the wine shop?"
"Because im building a decent portfolio which I can use to try and break into the videogames industry and this takes time"
"and is there any jobs avalible in what your aiming for?"
"Yes becuase Im on the mailing list of various agencies so i know there is x amount of jobs going"
"So why the hell arn't you applying to them?"
"becuase I don't have a folio, or anywork which is relevent to what they want to see (i.e videogame assets), but im shooting for january to have a decent portfolio complete and then i can start applying".
"You said that 5 weeks ago and look your working minimum wages down a freaking wine shop,why not use your initiative and apply for those jobs anyway, just say 'look I don't have a full folio this is what I DO have to Show'...... this shows initative which employers like then they will proberly test you in some way,interview you and if they hire you they still have the probationary period to decide if your shit or not. Apply to the jobs then it would give you a week to get your folio in order before the interview . I would start applying to x number of jobs tomorrow"
Now half of me kinda thinks he's right and makes alot of sense...especially since come January I might not have any income atool and if I do it will be pretty limited, yet I could spend an unknown number of weeks with a decent portfolio but it could still be an unknown number of weeks before I acturally (hopefully) become employed.
The other half of me has the stigma of looking down the jobs avalible and not meeting afew of the requirments to do the job,due to lack of exsperience, or maybe even skill, plus I have the confidence block that im not particularly sure of my own skill despite the 2.5 years experience I have in a software development house I still feel very much like im just out of school.
Not to mention this idea that you MUST have a fully avalible portfolio ready,with relevent assets to show.
The fear factor that if I went ahead and just applyed to places the damage I could be doing to myself in the eys of that particular studio,since I don't really have a decent portfolio,no website currently just a random bunch of images and a CV....would they instantly pass over me cos I don't have a pretty presentation? etc etc are all reasons why half of me says 'wait' and let my artwork speak for itself come january.
So now I turn to you guys, whats your opinion on this situation, both from your personal point of view/experience and your experience of how studios may look on an applicant like myself if I was to apply to your studio tomorrow with just a CV and afew attached images of assets that you may not want to see but still show skill.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Regards,
John
Replies
It worked for me in the end.
It seems like people are getting on your case a little but january is n't far away
BTW your dad's mate is a a bit hard on you surely:)
I think you have to be stubborn and go your own way.
People not in the industry don't typically understand the concept of a portfolio. It is nearly all we have as artists. Our resumes mean very little unfortunately.
Good luck
If i submitted something now when ive got no props/good characters/environments and completed something in the next couple of weeks that I really wanted someone to see I cant go about pestering them right?
I mean, these are as much questions as anything - Is it acceptable to apply again in under a 2month period to the same employer? Supposing they gave no feedback that is - if they said im not good enough then well thats that, but if they declined me and then i tried again with something bigger and better only a few months down the line, would that be ok?
I would advise against using any half-complete pieces. For the same reason I mentioned above, but also because it might make you look unfocused/uncommitted to your work. At the same time though, don't be too pedantic about minute details or making a 'perfect' submission.
As for the portfolio, how much were you thinking of submitting? Depending on the type of position you're after, personally I'd think 2 or 3 well done pieces would be enough to create a really strong job application portfolio.
Best of luck dude!
(Oh and I agree with Yozora, sending out a half-baked application is a bad idea. Build something solid, then hit them with all you've got. That way you'll know you've given it your best and have no regrets, regardless of what comes of it.)
Be patient, and keep working (both for money and on your portfolio)
Very good overall advice seeing it from my perspective here.
anyways
Tumerboys advice seems especially good to me, get a source of income whatever job and then work on portfolio at the same time.
January seems like a too tight deadline but that ofcourse depends on what skill and what work you have to show now.
If you send in some crap now (i have no idea how ur art looks like but lets say its crap now) sry. The people will look at it and make a grumpy noise and go on to the next or whatever they should be doing.
Start a wip and pimp thread and im sure you will get some help.
-this is madness
-No this is POLYCOUNT!
Good luck!
And remember if you dont make it in January dont give up because you seem to be a good guy.
or,
What if he turns out something good end of January, however the said recruiter remembers his stuff from Nov/Dec was shitty, and then says to himself, this guy just now broke out, and its still too close to his "not up to snuff" stuff. So maybe they would hold off a little longer?
is that over analyzing the situation? I thought about this myself, that maybe I should actually stop hammering every studio with every major update and just apply when I am sure its solid work all round?
Edit: by "his" stuff being shitty, i of course mean "my"
QFT... Seriously. You gotta show you can go above and beyond to even be considered at most places.
exactly that. and don't put anything but your best work in, the type of thing that highlights how good you are in the specific field your aiming for. don't send characters when you apply for an environment job, etc. or strange "art" drawings for that matter. and give credit wherever it's needed. anything that looks dodgy, anything that doesn't seem to fit together, anything that suggests it's not entirely your own work or that you do lack artistic judgement - will end up in the bin.
i think the advice you got from your dad is valid for jobseeking in many areas but he probably doesn't know video games companies very well, eh? no long term planning for employment, hardly any training of newbies or efforts to help staff develop, comparably few open places, etc... usually you have to hit the ground running to be considered.
when I did get a poisition I realised that I could have been working in studio for at least a year already going on the quality/experience/knoledge of the other new artists around me.
now im not saying what i did was wrong as i was able to use all the stuff i learnt befor getting the job climb the greasy pole pretty fast, but i possibly missed out on years in studio experience which could have also been valuable.
Seems everyone except possibly Shep is rooting for my 'wait and see what happens, when ive got a folio im happy with' half.
ill print all this out and hand it to him next week as my reply when no doubt he asks again.
Seriously though, I think theres oviously some differences and he has refered to the trainning and building skills which doesn't seem to happen too much in games industry as opposed to his industry....which is one of the main points of concideration.
I have currently got a website in devlopment which *could* be uploaded at anytime (once ive found a decent host and got the money, which is a little tight right now but I could buy some space and upload tomorrow if someone asked for it.), the problem I do have is just the lack of videogame related work.....just got 2 hi-poly models, 2 animations showing how to make various joints out of materials (shows various skills using max, pre-rendered) and 1 next gen low poly videogame model and of course a WIP or 2.....so its really the content as opposed to the presentation im worried about.
I do fully intend to let you raging lions loose on it all to dismember it in the coming weeks though (thats the webpage bit and my latest work).
Ruz - I don't think hes getting on my case as such, just trying motivate me and give me a kick up the arse, he's known me a longtime and to a certain extent (sorry if this sounds big headed in anyway, not intentional at all) he doesn't want to see me working these shitty jobs for minimum wage becuase he knows I can be better than that.
I mean every time posts have become avalible at his place he's told me about them and tried to convince me to apply to them, but ive always said no becuase right now my ambition lies in videogames and thats what I have the enthusiasm and drive to do, until Im told otherwise or utterly fail to break the industry in the next couple of years then ill need to to reconcider my goals.
Again thanks for the feedback, always appreciate it.
John
and as for the requirements, most of the time those are a joke, what most companies are REALLY looking for, if the person doing the hiring is an artist, is someone who can do the type of work they need done, or someone that looks like he could do that type of work, the rest like experience etc is irrelevant. like arsh's post for insomniac where he required people to have a PHD in Awesome, and have at least as much experience as Michelangelo... yeah ... lol