does voting matter in the US?
polycounter lvl 18
i've never voted. i'd love to know it actually mattered.
so here, i'll list my rants and reasons for not taking the time to register and vote:
1. i don't care. it's like, "hey, what do you feel like for grub? this or that?" and i'll say, "whatever is good" ultimately i get to pick from two. red or blue.
2. i've always been under the impression it never really mattered. i don't feel like i'd make much of a difference with voting. it's 1 out of a possible 9 million people.
3. i don't have time to research the issues. isn't that why there's an electoral college with people that specialize in this shit. i don't want to give an uneducated vote, honestly. i'd just be voting for people that don't look crazy our annoy the fuck out of me. i don't know anything about the world and where i stand on big issues and if they are really the right ones and how they might effect the world. i'm not sure i feel the need i have to. i'd love to continue enjoying life please, just keep everything how it is, i'm cool. stop starting wars plx.
4. ROCK THE VOTE! YOUR VOTE COUNTS! gah, get out of my FACE sheeeeiiites son! i'd like to put in motion... a thingy, and vote for outlawing harrassing people to vote. penalty by being flicked in the nose. why are people mad at me for not voting, wtf? it's freedom, r-right, yay, i'm enjoying my l-life! *sad pom-poms* i just saw a video of a bunch of rich, beautiful, and funny celebs telling me "not to vote" in a very sarcastic matter. their message was basically saying "America is in a shitty situation, it's really up to you to fix by voting!" Well shit. I'm letting the whole world implode because I can't bother to educate myself on the two candidates, decide which would be the best leader between the two, register so i can get called for jury duty or something, and vote. throw my paper into the abyss of votes. well fuckaroo, i'm a scum-bag. sorry guys. sorry to fuck up your world, i know you liked it i just, didn't want to vote.
so that's that.
lately i've been thinking, maybe my vote can matter. why else would candidates pretend to be mending fences and mule over what color ties they wear and shit. they obviously want to convince people they can relate with them, that they are "patriotic", "hip", and "smart" and don't hate stuff we like. they want my vote... so it must have some power, eh? they seem to think it matters.
i don't know politics and stuff well. my brain doesn't think it's very tasty. it's noisy and complicated. but, i'd like to know, does my vote really matter? what say you?
so here, i'll list my rants and reasons for not taking the time to register and vote:
1. i don't care. it's like, "hey, what do you feel like for grub? this or that?" and i'll say, "whatever is good" ultimately i get to pick from two. red or blue.
2. i've always been under the impression it never really mattered. i don't feel like i'd make much of a difference with voting. it's 1 out of a possible 9 million people.
3. i don't have time to research the issues. isn't that why there's an electoral college with people that specialize in this shit. i don't want to give an uneducated vote, honestly. i'd just be voting for people that don't look crazy our annoy the fuck out of me. i don't know anything about the world and where i stand on big issues and if they are really the right ones and how they might effect the world. i'm not sure i feel the need i have to. i'd love to continue enjoying life please, just keep everything how it is, i'm cool. stop starting wars plx.
4. ROCK THE VOTE! YOUR VOTE COUNTS! gah, get out of my FACE sheeeeiiites son! i'd like to put in motion... a thingy, and vote for outlawing harrassing people to vote. penalty by being flicked in the nose. why are people mad at me for not voting, wtf? it's freedom, r-right, yay, i'm enjoying my l-life! *sad pom-poms* i just saw a video of a bunch of rich, beautiful, and funny celebs telling me "not to vote" in a very sarcastic matter. their message was basically saying "America is in a shitty situation, it's really up to you to fix by voting!" Well shit. I'm letting the whole world implode because I can't bother to educate myself on the two candidates, decide which would be the best leader between the two, register so i can get called for jury duty or something, and vote. throw my paper into the abyss of votes. well fuckaroo, i'm a scum-bag. sorry guys. sorry to fuck up your world, i know you liked it i just, didn't want to vote.
so that's that.
lately i've been thinking, maybe my vote can matter. why else would candidates pretend to be mending fences and mule over what color ties they wear and shit. they obviously want to convince people they can relate with them, that they are "patriotic", "hip", and "smart" and don't hate stuff we like. they want my vote... so it must have some power, eh? they seem to think it matters.
i don't know politics and stuff well. my brain doesn't think it's very tasty. it's noisy and complicated. but, i'd like to know, does my vote really matter? what say you?
Replies
Also, the 'I'm just one vote' is just fucking ridiculous.
Yes, you are. As are the other 9 million fuckers, really.
There was a fantastic letter in Viz comic a while ago along the lines of :
"I was going out to the polling office with my mate. He was going to vote Conservative, i was going to vote Labour. So we just stayed in and had a spliff instead"
My point is: if there are only two opposing parties, it makes it almost impossible for them to agree on something. The system almost drives them to provide the polar opposite to the other's opinions.
Maybe they own cats. Maybe they are going to shoot cats into space.
The more you know.
Thomas Jefferson said that any democracy essentially needs a new revolution every generation, in the form of forceful voting that corrects problems as they arise. He wasn't wrong.
That's how robot Nixon won the election
The largest voting block in America are old people so anyone that waves a home baked apple pie in their face will get into office.
Using your own logic you could vote even if it was an uninformed vote, it won't matter its only 1 out 9million votes =P
In the end you should do what you think is right and what works for you. If you're thinking about voting listen to what each of the candidates have to say about themselves in their own words (and not what they have to say about the other guy). Then go with whoever you agree with the most. If neither agrees with you Pea had a good suggestions throw your vote away to a no name or don't vote.
If you don't vote someone else is going to, and you're trusting their judgment over your own, kind of scary.
I long for the day that people exactly vote for a candidate and not for the party. Parties stink and have always stunk.
Good, short and easy to understand. Thanks to the V.
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
Voting DOES matter. I'd love to see the forceful legislation pass in all 50 states to ensure every single vote counts, but even still, it's good to voice your opinion.
Be a big boy, go get up off your ass and register.
Do it!
B
the vast majority don't ever hit a target and yours probably won't either, but it's how wars are won.
B
If this is the extent of the foreign policy experience of the VP candidate, and the Presidential candidate is getting odds placed on whether he'll survive his first term, do you SERIOUSLY think that the republicans deserve the vote?
We're talking about a person who is getting crash courses on the DAY OF political events. Do you seriously want a 2nd in command and likely commander in chief that is getting a crash course on foreign policy the same day she has to make a world effecting decision?
If I were american, I'd be voting democrat this election, regardless if I were republican or not, and in 4 years, see what the candidates are like then. Seriously... that's some scary shit that can go down.
You have a duty to not let your country get any more fucked up than it is right now
These elections are a facade. A theatrical production akin to a pro wrestling match, with the same confetti, flashbulbs, fanatical fans, smack talking and plot twists. But when the wrestlers are back in the locker room, they are all still on the same team, with the same goals and objectives. The only difference is most people know pro wrestling is fake. The candidates that have been chosen for us to "choose" from are all from the same groups and organizations, with (basically) the same agendas, allegiances and objectives: consolidation of wealth, power and control, both domestically and abroad.
Obviously that is a tough pill to swallow for the average American citizen who has been programmed from childhood to believe that this is a "democracy", this is the land of the free, home of the brave etc, etc.
Seriously, we have a leader who is a war criminal and a traitor who rigged elections to steal his way into office, and there's nothing we can do about it. What kind of "democracy" is that? Sarah Palin is a Vice Presidential candidate. These are major red flags indicating that our system is seriously flawed on a very fundamental level. But we don't like to talk about real issues like that that. Why? Because we know that there is nothing we can, or will do about it. Because this is not a government that answers to the will of the people, and we realize that, even if we don't want to admit it. For the most part, we will accept it, as long as we are comfortable, well fed, and entertained.
Who is going to win this "election" - Easy. The CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergs, KBR, Halliburton, GE, General Dynamics, Westinghouse, Rockefellars, Morgans, Exxon, Texaco, Bechtel, etc. The same groups that won last time. And the time before that. And the time before that.
I posted a quote some time ago from one of the most respected intellectuals, authors and professors in the country, Noam Chomsky;
"The United States is a fake democracy, and it's citizens are hardly more than irrelevant onlookers"
That about sums it up.
( I highly recomend his book "Failed States", which was scheduled for a book review on NPR, but subsequently pulled at the last minute. That's right, censored from public radio. Probably worth finding out why. Also "Hegemony Or Survival" is worth a read).
Besides, what do us regular citizens even know about running a global hegemonic empire? For example, when should the United States support, finance, arm and equip a ruthless dictator, and when should we take him down? That's a real question. Are we really qualified to answer that?
So yeah, hate to rain on our "Parade Of Democracy" here, but seriously folks, this is a nation of sheep ruled by wolves. I think that the last 8 years have illustrated that fact pretty well. Bush is not the problem with our government, he is a product of it.
At least, this is how it appears to me.....
Individual votes are worth nothing. I mean, technically we're still a representative republic, it's only the electoral college which is actually going to cast votes.
edit: @whiny liberals who says the government is evil and controlling, chill out, guys.
Sectaurs pretty much nailed it.
Dekard: That's an oversimplification of the voting process and blatant lie, really. The electoral college did their job as outlined, none of them took the vote into their own hands, which they do have the power to. They're broken up by district, and Bush won in that way. Had one of them changed their vote to support the popular vote they would have been opposing the voice of local voters, and debatably abusing their power. Certianly using it outside of the normal contraints.
c'mon mang....
It's for the people, by the district then, not for the people and by the people. I'm not complaining about dem's losing the election 8 years later, I'm just showing the flaw in the system. The people voted, and the people lost. The electoral college voted someone in, that the people didn't. Districts get redistricted every few years for better results all the time to sway for the dems or repubs...
what fritz? it's true man! i've never been into politics, learning about the stuff is a chore to me. my family was never into it. they were religious people that were going to vote republican just because that's the party they always supported, because their religion supports it.
it's basically how i've always been. as a kid i think, "yeah, history class is awesome, i could fight sleep and try and pay attention... or i could secretly draw a space-cow comic book... hmm."
maybe i'll vote just in spite of a McCain supporter. so everytime i meet a person that says, "i voted for McCain, i can say, my vote negated yours. if i do vote, i'll be in arizona, so i'm expecting McCain to dominate this state. the whole thing seems retarded.
This is true, and is how the government has always been. We're a representative republic.
I'm not sure why we stick with the Electoral College though. Someone told me it's so they won't just campaign in certain key states. With TV and internet and everything we have now, who cares where the do or do not campaign? I don't buy that.
I largely feel like my vote doesn't count. Mostly because even if your state is basically split, whoever has a few more votes is going to win ALL of the Electoral votes. Like someone already said, some states are already decided long ago, so if you're in one of those states, it doesn't really matter that much.
Now, if it was based on popular vote, it just feels like it would actually count towards the final tally more directly. People might actually have that sense of "my vote counts." This is for the president of the entire country, not just states. It just seems dumb to have indirect voting. Even if the electorals would split their votes it would make more sense. Half your state wants blue and have wants red, so 42(or whatever) for each?
What if there's a tie you say? .....deathmatch of course.
That's the answer to any of life's questions.
you argue that we have a system of election that is essentially a facade and then offer up this nugget that seems to go against your basic philosophy. how can someone rig an election that doesnt matter?
Long answer; NO
so ya dude, you're totally right, in my twisted-up retarded understanding, that's dead-on true!
that's why i need to first logically determine if the voters votes matter.
my original way of thought is that votes don't matter because the electoral college is an indirect election process.
however, after some reading, my vote will influence the popular vote, which in turn should influence the elected representative for the state i live in. they can legally vote against what the people want, and it has happened a very few times in the past, but from what i've read, they typically never misrepresent the people in fear of not be elected for their next term.
so, if my vote actually does matter and the diebold machines aren't still inaccurately counting votes, i'd then need to determine the value of my vote's influence and weigh that with the efforts of being active and knowing the issues, my stances on them, and then researching the candidates and their beliefs on issues. *ugh* granted after all is said and done, i'll be more smarter and know myself better. maybe find myself in a situation where i can argue about stuff with some slutty chick and we agree to disagree, and fuck it out like some strange porno fantasy! whoa..
so i may just register, just in case i decide to vote. i only have like a few days and it's apparently arizona is supper progressive and it's really easy to register compared to other states, it can all be done online and shit.
sooooo... hmmm...
Let's vote for Crom. Crom is strong![ame="
I like the primary voting system we have here in TX way better than the actual election. In the standard primary vote, each county tallies up their votes and awards a certain number of delegates to the candidate. This makes your vote much more important because it can literally come down to a handful of votes whether or not a delegate swings one way or another. That state can be decided by one delegate easily. When you break it down into smaller groups then I think the "vote as a block of constituents" policy works, but I absofuckinglutely hate the idea that because someone wins by 1 vote, they take the entire fucking state. It's absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary.
Either way, go vote please. Even if you don't believe it influences the election, the poll results are published across the country where every elected leader can take notice of how people feel. Even here in TX, which will most likely go Republican like it has for at least the past 20 years, your vote counts because if McCain wins 55-45 instead of 60-37 like Bush did against Gore, then the elected leaders of our state will take notice that people aren't happy with many of his policies and they will pay more attention to public opinion in order to get re-elected.
I don't REALLY know whether A) our votes are amounting to something,
Basically it's based on population. The bigger the population of a state, the more electoral votes they get. I think every state has a minimum of 2 + # of population, but a big state like California has 55. What happens is, the people vote in each state and whoever wins in that state gets all of that state's electoral votes. Technically, most state laws let the elector vote however he/she wants still, but I think the public outcry would be huge if a state flip flopped and voted against the results.
So you can end up with a very close popular vote(direct voter votes). Say 1 million to 1 million 500. But the electoral vote could be less close because of the all or nothing factor. You'll have media calling a landslide, but really was it? I think Gore actually won the popular vote in 2000? Can't remember.
I just don't see why it has to be all or nothing. Say a state is 1/3 blue and 2/3 red, why not give the votes that way too? Mostly I don't like it because this is for our entire country and should not matter what state you live in.
Honestly, I'm not quite sure how many people understand this in our country. That's why the whole "your vote counts" thing is only half true. It counts, but not with other like minded people across the country, only within your state - which can be very difficult to overcome in biased states. It's very difficult to win in a state with history of being the other color. That's fine for state issues, but for country, I'm totally against it. Everyone should be able to stand with who they choose regardless of where they live.
Maybe there are benefits to this system, but I just don't see them.
But dear god, I do agree, an uninformed vote is nothing but harmful. With the way most voters decide their votes, effing Hitler could get into office if he appeared on TV with an apple pie and some bald eagles enough times.
But American politics are much more exciting, and if I could vote in America, I would... but I only got the Canadian election... so I'll pass and watch me some CNN! durr.....
That's how it is in some states, though, isn't it? Or is that only in the primary election?
And yeah, gore won popular, bush won electoral.
these elected officials make decisions that effect my life. i get a chance to influence the decision of who is elected into office.
it's a pretty basic concept. i want this, some other dude wants that instead. so we vote for it, winner wins, loser agrees to be cool about it.
growing up, i've heard people say voting matters and i've heard people say it doesn't for many different reasons. luckily i don't have to to continue living here and pay taxes, so naturally, i've just been chill'n. i think things are important and disagree with some shit that's been going down, but will voting really do anything? i guess it will.
and yo, i understand that african americans and women fought for their right to vote. voting should be a privilege and right for all americans, regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference. i'm all for being fair.
however, because people were unfairly denied these rights, fought and died to obtain them, won't make me feel any more obligated to vote. i consider not voting a right as well. i'm not going to buy a gun just because i have the right to bear arms. anyway...
Man that sucks